BUY firewood or CUT firewood?

[VERN in IL]

Just pondering this question, which is really cheaper? I don't own any woods and assuming I can get the trees for free, which would be cheaper?

I have no chainsaw, so for a few seasons of wood, which would be cheaper, me going out, purchasing all the woodworking tools and cut it myself, or to pay someone for wood they cut?

[Jolly]

Poulan Wild Thing. A decent ax. A sledge and a couple of iron wedges. Total outlay? $175 or less.

[Wisconsin Ann]

Have you ever cut up firewood? That would be my first concern there. It's not exactly easy the first time out.

A lot depends on how much you value your time. For us, it's a tossup most winters. We have a LOT of woods available. All hard woods. We have a good chainsaw, and a trailer to load into. What we don't have is a lot of time.

check around and see what you will have to pay for a cord of wood. Figure out how much you'll need for the heating season. You also need to figure if you need to split it...either if you purchase or cut it yourself.

[radiofish]

Why buy firewood tools, if you have no assured access for trees to cut???????
How far will you have to travel to find trees to cut for firewood???
Assuming that you can get the trees for free..... As you had posted!

If you have never cut firewood before, it could be an accident waiting to happen! Chainsaw operation can be dangerous, if you do not have any experience operating them!

I would not buy any chainsaw or any tools, until you know if you can get access to trees.

Will the trees be on the ground, or would you have to drop them?? Another accident waiting to happen for the unexperienced.

Then you have to season the firewood, before burning it!!

Sounds as if you are a canidate, for purchasing precut/ split firewood and having it delivered..

I have 70+ acres of timber here, so for me - it is cut it myself! That is since I have the trees, and the time to make lots of firewood.. I have been heating with firewood for over 20+ years. Plus I used to cut and sell firewood, many years ago.

[VERN in IL]

Have you ever cut up firewood?

Yes, lots of work, I would need a log splitter.

A lot depends on how much you value your time.

$13.50 per hour

Why buy firewood tools, if you have no assured access for trees to cut???????

I got access to bottom land, I have no 4wd, and no trailer.

Will the trees be on the ground, or would you have to drop them??

both

How far will you have to travel to find trees to cut for firewood???

1/2 mile

Sounds as if you are a candidate, for purchasing precut/ split firewood and having it delivered..

Looking at the startup cost...
Chainsaw: Husky or Shtil 20" bar $400
Chaps: $80
Log Splitter $2,000
Mud tires for rear of the truck: $200
chain sharpener $30
dedicated boots: $150
Lubes:$75

contingency items:
Double bit axe: $30
Maul $30
two wedges $20
36" bow saw $27
bow saw blades $10 each
First Aid kit: $200

I got about two-three hours after work I could do logging so at $13.50..
Labor: $40.50/day.

I am not seeing much savings here! To buy eight cords of pre-cut firewood would cost us $2400. The startup cost to chop my own wood would be around $3252.(I already have the wood stove and chimmey in the garage, been there since 1984)

To continue running ELECTRIC(resistance) central heat would cost me an additional $280 for 5 months on the electric bill, so that would equal: $1400 for a winter's worth of electric heat....I don't see how one saves money by heating with wood...!

[radiofish]

Vern, you forgot to add extra chains, for the chainsaw!!
So add another $50.00 or more, to your estimate...

That looks like an awfully expensive 1st aid kit, at $200 dollars!!!!

If you are buying eight cords of wood at one time, see if you can get a volume discount. It never hurts to ask!!!

[romysbaskets]

Safety first of course but it sounds like you have done some homework. If you feel comfortable with using the tools you mentioned then consider this, perhaps....? When you price out a chain saw and all your supplies...they are at NEW PRICES! I don't buy new tools, prefer well taken care of used ones. Craigslist is a good place to pick up the supplies you listed right down to the tires USED and definitely the wood splitter bargains. Why not good used condition supplies? For the price to start up that way you save money the first winter and OWN THE SUPPLIES. You would have to work something out for your first winter with the seasoned wood you can burn not being what you are getting. However if you get ahold of some downed trees that have been that way a year or so! That is a score as mine burn same year in my woodstove. I don't split the smaller circumference logs sections, just place them in after you get a good fire with kindling or splits. It is just a matter of opinions and your abilities. You mention $13.50 an hour for your time's value but what value do you place on getting exercise? I like think of my getting the firewood as good exercise. I didn't mention I am just a petite lady but I like using tools, I love them as gifts too! I also love starting up the fire every day as I am bit of a pyro at heart....hahahahah My hubby laughs about it. You know already what you want to do though, don't you?

Oh just a thought....many people I know don't buy their own splitters, they co own them either with family members or friends. Here most people partner up with them. I use my neighbor's, they are great and safe if used properly. If I can do it, you certainly could.

[FlatlinesUp]

I do both and cut my own wood as needed for the property sake, and help neighbors cut/trim etc if I get to keep the wood, and if I don't do enough that year, I usually buy a little.

It helps a lot that I've got one of the biggest saws in the area, so I usually get calls from 'local' neighbors to help w/the big trees and get plenty of wood.

[TurnerHill]

The middle ground is buying a grapple load of logs, and working them up yourself.

Or even buying rounds, and just splitting them yourself.

Around here, a cord of green rounds is $125. Green split is $225. Seasoned split $275.

So you could buy a cord for 125. Paying yourself $13.50, you would need to split it in 7 hours to come out ahead.

You can split a cord by hand in 7 hours.

So I guess that works.

Your numbers seem high to me, given that you don't actually have a woodlot of your own. You can get set up for cutting your own firewood for a good deal less.

[Ken Scharabok]

By lubes I assume you mean bar oil. Also not included is the cost of the gasoline and the oil to go in with the gas.

Much of your list is a one-time expense. Thus, assuming the equipment lasts an average of ten years, divide the one-timers by ten and then add on the consumables for an annual cost.

Around here you can buy bundled slab sides. One area plant which makes railroad ties and pallets stacks up the cut off ends and then sells them by the truckload. Another sawmill will let you pick up RR tie cut off ends for free. Typically range from 8" to 20" in length. Green, but split and stack to age. Picking up a couple every day adds up.

After the loggers have been in a woods they leave a lot of tops and such behind. Property owner may be agreeable to let you go in and take out what you can use for firewood. Nice aspect is typically there are the logging roads and fairly open where the skidders have pushed down the small stuff.

Was visiting someone in WI who had a long truckload of logs cut to 8' lengths dropped in his yard. Several could be placed on a sawbuck at one time.

Don't see a trailer on your list.

Also doesn't consider wear and tear on your pickup (or you for that matter).

On hand sharpening include the amount of time it would require. I have about six blades I rotate through, when use a little table sharpener. Have it done at a shop and it will only last about four resharpenings because they take soooooo much off. The old 'find the tooth with the most wear and then reduce all of the other teeth to it'. When I can feel the blade getting dull I can swap a chain in a couple of minutes (which counts as rest time).

Big expense item you listed was the wood splitter. Most rental places have them. Separate out stuff to be split and then rent the splitter on Friday evening for return on Monday morning. Splitting is really at least a two-person job. Can you hire someone local to help with that aspect?

Is it possible to spend the money instead on upgrading the insulation in your house? What about zoning the house with one or more combination heat & air wall units? (Check them out at places like Lowes and Home Depot.)

Sometimes folks don't realize the amount of work it takes to burn wood for heat. There is the cutting down and up, splitting, loading, unloading, stacking, hauling to stove, feeding stove several times a day, disposal of ashes - plus a biggie - affect on homeowner insurance.'

Always the risk of an injury, particularly since you would be working by yourself. What if something happened to where you couldn't work for a couple of weeks or months? Remember logging is one of the top accident jobs in the U.S.

When I go out to cut I call a neighbor beforehand to let him know. If I don't call him back by about 6PM, he will come looking for me. Do the same when I will be bushhogging on remote areas of the farm.

Now, on your time, what if you found something to do during those extra hours which would return at least the $13.50 hourly rate used? Part-time job? Divide the purchase cost of the wood by $13.50 tells you how many hours you would have to do so.

Sometimes it is just more economical to hire work done. I have an old backhoe but still hire a professional to come in and do anything much larger than burying a dead animal. They hourly cost may be high, but they can do a lot of work in an hour.

[foxtrapper]

Time is a commodity, and one I don't have enough of. I already can't do all the things I need to do, let alone the things I simply want to do. So it's not worth the questionable dollar savings for me to cut and split my own firewood. I buy it pre-cut and pre-split and spend my time on other things.

[artificer]

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

I am not seeing much savings here! To buy eight cords of pre-cut firewood would cost us $2400. The startup cost to chop my own wood would be around $3252.(I already have the wood stove and chimmey in the garage, been there since 1984)

To continue running ELECTRIC(resistance) central heat would cost me an additional $280 for 5 months on the electric bill, so that would equal: $1400 for a winter's worth of electric heat....I don't see how one saves money by heating with wood...!

One way to save money is to compare apples to apples as far as numbers go.

Even at $0.08/kw-hr, your $1,400 is 17,500kw-hrs. Convert that to btus, and you get 59.5million btus. Whats your electricity rate?

Using the Sweeps btu/cord chart shows oak/maple/ash/birch at 24million btu/cord.

If your heater is 50% efficient, then you need 5 cords, or $1500 worth of expensive firewood. ($300/cord)

8 cords of pine is 128million btus. (16Mbtu/cord) Your heater would have to be at least 47% efficient to get the 50.5Mbtus that you heater puts out. If you use the common hardwoods, your heater is only 31% efficient. NOT a very good heater. If you're paying $300/cord for softwood, they really saw you coming... even if its delivered and stacked.

Firewood in St. Loius can be had at $225 from craigslist. Pittsburg: $195/cord Marrion: $180/cord I suggest you find a better source of firewood locally.

Another way to look at this is the $/million btu cost.
$.08/kw = $23.53
$.10/kw = $29.42
$.12/kw = $35.29
$300/cord (24Mbtu/cord 50%) = $25
$225/cord = $18
$180/cord = $14.40
$180/cord with good 65% heater = $11.54

Michael

[Cabin Fever]

Economics of Burning Wood for Heat

Woodstove, pipe, chimney, installation, etc $4,000

Homeowner’s insurance premium increase $200/yr

10 acre woodlot $15,000

Used 4wd Pick-up truck to haul firewood $8,000

Install new transmission after pickup breaks down $3000

Chain saw (Poulan special) $129

Chain saw repair (broke down after 24 hours use) $75

New Stihl chain saw $450

Replacement chain (broke old chain on a rock when bucking on the ground) $25

Sawbuck $10

Emergency room treatment (Stitched up gashed thigh due to chainsaw kick back) $450

Chainsaw chaps $100

Gas and lubricating oil $55

Doctor's fee for removing splinter from eye $100

Safety glasses $10

Work gloves $8.00

Emergency room treatment (broken toes-dropped log) $300

Steel-toe boots $150

Replacement bar for chain saw (pinched and warped old bar when bucking) $50

Wedges $11

Broken arm (cutting branch under tension) $600

Head Xray and overnight observation in hospital (because of concussion received from widowmaker) $1,500

Hard hat $30

Chiropractors fees for back problem $150

Power wood splitter $1500

Home repair due to chimney fire (Insurance deductible) $1000

Chimney sweeping equipment $150

[ldc]

Mr Vern, please think; during which months of the year do you have 2-3 hours of light/free time after work? I used to do the wood thing when I lived up north, and OVER TIME, it was cheaper. Besides, I had heat when the utilities went out, so there is a back-up/prep feature too. maybe you could just supplement your utilities and get into this slowly. In my previous home state, you could cut wood with a $20 permit in certain state parks. Maybe it's worth it if you do it with a buddy, and share the wood and the expenses...and again, maybe not! I just re-read Cabin Fever's above assessment! all the best, ldc

[MSLMutt]

I cut and split my own Vern. I've invested in some decent tools and I've taken care of them. The profit in this is the money saved on my heating bill. I'm not the kind of person to figure in some amount of money that I believe my time is worth. IMO, time is worth nothing, production is. If you cut wood, you are paid for your time, if you watch Gomer Pyle, you're not. Just my 2 cents

[ronbre]

if you have a truck or trailer..even if you have to buy a chainsaw file and gas/oil..it is still going to pay for itself in a year over buying firewood if you can get a permit to cut downed wood in a forest nearby

[C_Brice]

I'm new to the wood burning thing, going on season #2. I'm sure that the rest of you will agree that you learn an awful lot in the first year. Here's what I learned:

It alot of work to cut up your own wood. If you have something else "productive" to do your time is worth something, if you would of been sitting in front of the TV or PC during the time used, it's worth nothing.

Gas, gear, repair, maintenance, splitter purchase/rental etc etc add up fast.

Having it delivered and stacked is almost too easy.

If you buy right, you can have it delivered and stacked and still save money over traditional heating like fuel oil, propane and electric.

Here's what I have done this year: I take wood when I can get it. A neighbor called up this summer and was cutting down a few ash trees. He asked if I would come help cut and split and in return I could take some of the wood. Approx 1 cord = 5 hours of my time, no cash. I have a buddy that buys/sells pallets. He gets many that are either in disrepair or he has no buyer for do to size. I pick them up and cut them with a circular saw. I'm on blade #1 (150-200 pallets). Some are soft wood, some are oak. I had an 3' diameter elm tree die 30' from the house and had a tree service come cut it down. Cut it up myself. Still needs split. I'm an electrical contractor and he have wired 3 houses in the last couple months. I have picked up 5 S10 pickup loads of scrap pine and fir 2x4's 2x6, 2x8's and 2x12's. Still have more to go. Tomorrow there is a firewood auction in a nearby town. Some 60 cords. I'm gonna go and if prices are good I'll buy a couple. If not, I'm gonna call a local supplier and have him deliver a cord of oak just in case. Cost = $175.

As you can see, I mix and match. I don't go out of my way to search out wood to cut up but if I find it I'll do it. I'm also not afraid to buy it when needed or if the price is right. Keep in mind, I don't heat solely with wood. I keep the furnace turned down and burn when we are home. Cut my heat bill in half last year. Saved about $800 which paid for 3/4 the cost of the stove and install in the first year and I now have a back up heat source if I lose power. As I get better wood (or the wood I have cut this year seasons enough for use) I can cut my heat bill even more.

IMO, don't be afraid to cut your own but don't be afraid to buy it either. For the record, I don't see an expensive splitter being purchased in the future.

LK

[Mutti]

Well,here in so. MO it is logging country and you can get a log truck with pup of hollow logs for under $300. This comes out to about 20 full cords of cut up wood....and we use about 10 a winter in our outdoor wood furnace. Even adding in the labor of cutting/splitting you can't beat $150 a year to heat our home(and our hot water,too). We have 90 acres of woods but sure easier to get a load dumped-took about a month of part-time work last year to work up the load. Doesn't have to be split too small as you can burn anything you can heave in the door of our furnace. DEE

[ca2devri]

Originally Posted by Mutti

....and we use about 10 a winter in our outdoor wood furnace.

Wow! 10 full cords of wood in 1 winter? I look up at your info to see if you were located in Nunavut, but you're in Missouri. Why so much? Is the outdoor furnace that inefficient or is your house a mansion?

Chris

[Itilley]

We buy our firewood and got a good deal this summer. We paid $145 a cord and have no complaints. We bought it early in the summer and it has dried out well. We no longer can cut and split wood even though we no it is cheaper that way.

RenieB