Plumbing - septic question

[cc-rider]

I give up! All the plumbing people I've contacted want as much money as I have TOTAL in my house just to run the plumbing and venting. Just for labor!

I already checked. No permits or inspections required in this township (this year...maybe next year there will be...so I want to get it done NOW).

So I'm doing it myself. Step one....run the line from the septic tank to the basement before the ground freezes and I can't dig.

I have a septic tank already installed, unburied, and the hole on the side at the top open. I have a basement 30-40' away with a 6" hole in the wall. How do I do the "between" stuff? I KNOW that I need 1/8" to 1/4" drop per foot. Got that. Do I use rigid pipe or flexible? Lay it on crushed stone to support it in the trench? What do I use to connect it to the tank? What do I use to go through the hole in the basement?

I could just ask the guys at Menards, but they are the ones that told me to NAIL my 2" insulation board to the cement basement walls before I backfilled. Duh.

Thanks in advance!

CC

[Witterbound]

Use 4" schedule 40 pvc pipe. It's rigid. You don't need to lay it on crushed stone, just dig a trench and lay the pipe. You'll need 4" connectors to connect the pipe to the septic tank and your house. On my house, we had a 6" hole in my foundation. The schedule 40 just goes through the hole to the inside.

[Sawmill Jim]

I would use SCH 40 4'' PVC you can get it not approved for drinking water cheaper . Here we have a problem for the tank connector i have stuffed rags around the pipe just enough to keep cement from spilling into the tank and plaster the pipe in same at the basement . The reason for that little of a drop is to keep the water from running off an leaving the solids behind .I would put some clean outs in the line too .Easy way to do this is use either a tee or wye and a 4''slip x 4'' F M P T and a 4'' plug .Here we also put a vent just outside the house too usuley a 2'' p v c pipe plus more vents at the up most end of the flow as in the john .

[Wis Bang]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

I could just ask the guys at Menards, but they are the ones that told me to NAIL my 2" insulation board to the cement basement walls before I backfilled. Duh.

You can 'nail' a 2 x 4 fast to a concrete wall, why not foamboard?

I helped install septic tanks but the tank outlet was just a little lower than the inlet & both were shielded w/ a baffle and had a cleanout port between the baffle and the inlet/outlet the discharge went a short distance to a 'distribution' box about the size of a cooler that had multiple outlets for the drain field lines. This box was lower than the outlet but there was still 'pitch the length of the drain field pipes.

Usually there is a hole thru the foundation for the pipe from the house to the septic tank.

You should be able to use PVC pipe, ask at Minards.

[cc-rider]

I had the septic tank and leach field "professionally" installed a few years ago, so I'm sure it is OK. I've just never hooked it to the house (which is still being built). I wanted to get the septic in before they changed their rules in Ohio on leach fields.

I've got the same thing. Tank goes to distribution box. 2 outlets from there into 2 different fields. One used one year, the other the next. Gives each field a year to rest. Just a PVC elbow to switch from one to the other. Looks ok now...nothing in there but water used to keep the septic tank from heaving in the winter. I'm not sure I want to stick my hands in there to switch it once it's been used for awhile, though!

If I make a cleanout-T, does it extend above ground? What about the vent? I assume a vent would have to? I've tried to find books on the subject, but all the plumbing for dummy books only have the interior stuff.

[Harry Chickpea]

"I have a septic tank already installed, unburied, and the hole on the side at the bottom open. I have a basement 30-40' away with a 6" hole in the wall. How do I do the "between" stuff? I KNOW that I need 1/8" to 1/4" drop per foot. Got that. Do I use rigid pipe or flexible? Lay it on crushed stone to support it in the trench? What do I use to connect it to the tank? What do I use to go through the hole in the basement?"

the hole on the side at the bottom open??? Huh? The holes in a septic tank should be near the TOP. One as an inlet, one on the other side (often with a baffle) as an outlet. If there is a hole in the BOTTOM of the tank, it isn't a septic tank. Maybe a burial vault for overweight people who want to drain off some weight after death, but not a septic tank.

3" or 4" PVC drain (your choice generally) goes DOWN vertically into the ground below the frostline (eh, 18" to 2' there probably) and then drops with that slow pitch to the tank entrance. It can do another drop at the entrance or not. Having the pipe exit the basement 18" or more down is a plus. Too steep a pitch will cause dry stuff in the pipe to build up and clog. Too slow a pitch will cause stuff to not move and build up a clog. One thing to watch out for is uncompacted soil under only part of the line, creating a sag. After the pipe enters the tank, it often goes into an open ended T, with one part of the T above the waterline, and the other a foot or 18" below it. That avoids the crust on the top of the sewage from blocking the flow into the tank.

A cleanout goes where the line exits the house. Keep trees away from the trench and line - forever. When you fill the trench, bury a trace wire or a row of old nails about 4" below the surface. That way you can use a metal detector to trace the route of your pipe. Do the same over the cleanout cover of the tank.

You do have the leach field already installed, I hope? A septic tank without a proper leach field is a cesspit and will turn into a scummy stinky liability very quickly.

As for going through the cement wall and going into the tank, both are instances where you would use hydraulic cement to surround the pipe once it is in place. Oh, heck. Where is CabinFever? He can tell you all this better than I can.

[james dilley]

Most counties in Ohio, have classes on how to do the septic yourself. might cost About A hundred bucks. but worth asking at the county about it..

[cc-rider]

Harry,

OMGosh, you are right. The septic tank hole is at the TOP of the tank! I was thinking "bottom of the pit"....which is really the top of the tank, since the tank is buried! It's late...I'm tired.

Yes, leachfield is installed. Thank goodness. I only have to worry about the lines in the house and to the septic tank.

My hole in the basement is actually about 7' down from the ground level already. Where it exits the basement and where it goes into the tank is already at 1/4"-1/8" drop per foot. Maybe I goofed when I had the hole put in the basement (when it was poured)? The way I was figuring was the crap (no pun intended) would drop vertically from the 1st floor to the basement, go out the hole in the wall and already be at the correct pitch from there to the septic tank. What keeps it from getting piled up (again, no pun intended) where the vertical drop is?

[texican]

I couldn't afford a professional or even a jack plumber, electrician, mason, framer, etc. So I did everything myself. Made some boo boos, but fixing the errors was cheap, and I eventually got it right, plus got useful skills out of the process....

[Harry Chickpea]

It won't pile up in a stack. Pressure from the stuff on top and regular water flow will flush anything at the bottom of one, especially if you have a sweep at the bottom. In your case, I would have the cleanout in the basement.

This is the WRONG way to do it.
http://www.fairfield-city.org/wastewater/cleanout.cfm If you have a serious backup and you open that cleanout plug, you can get a bath.

The fourth drawing here is the correct way to do a cleanout in a basement.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-i....htm/printable

Do that and you should be fine. PS, the cleanout cap and all joints must fit airtight unless you want sewer gasses in your basement.

[byexample]

We used 3" ABS (black plastic pipe) for our septic lines. ABS is a little easier to work with than PVC because ABS doesn't require the use of a primer... there's just a glue to work with.

You definitely want to include cleanouts in logical locations.

See if your local library has a copy of the Universal Building Code. I'm pretty sure that's where I got most of my information on doing our septic lines... and going by the code is a pretty safe way to go. Even if you aren't required to have permits and inspections -- it's always a good idea to follow the code.

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

I had the septic tank and leach field "professionally" installed a few years ago, so I'm sure it is OK. I've just never hooked it to the house (which is still being built). I wanted to get the septic in before they changed their rules in Ohio on leach fields.

I've got the same thing. Tank goes to distribution box. 2 outlets from there into 2 different fields. One used one year, the other the next. Gives each field a year to rest. Just a PVC elbow to switch from one to the other. Looks ok now...nothing in there but water used to keep the septic tank from heaving in the winter. I'm not sure I want to stick my hands in there to switch it once it's been used for awhile, though!

If I make a cleanout-T, does it extend above ground? What about the vent? I assume a vent would have to? I've tried to find books on the subject, but all the plumbing for dummy books only have the interior stuff.

As far as the D-box goes, I'd suggest using a PVC cap to plug one pipe. Cut the cap so there is a half circle opening in the end of the cap. All the wastewater should flow to the field where its line is not capped. But, if for some reason that field fills with water, the water will back up and then go into the second field having the "modified" cap. Don't forget to swap the cap every year....get over the wastewater "ish" factor. It ain't gonna kill you!

The clean out tee should be a "sanitary tee" not a standard tee. It should placed on the end close to the house.

The plumbing vents (stacks) in the house are the only vents you need. The septic system will vent thru the house.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

Harry,

The way I was figuring was the crap (no pun intended) would drop vertically from the 1st floor to the basement, go out the hole in the wall and already be at the correct pitch from there to the septic tank. What keeps it from getting piled up (again, no pun intended) where the vertical drop is?

I am not qualified to give much advise on septic plumbing. However, one very, very important thing:

Septic piping is _very_ different from regular water plumbing when it comes to elbows, Tees, and the like. You want these fittings to have the swept, long, curvy shapes. You do _NOT_ want the typical sharp corners of water pipe. Waste does _not_ make sharp corners very well. Be 100% sure you put your line together with gentle curves, sweeping elbows with long curves.

That is very important!

If you put in a typical elbow, what you ask is exactly what will happen - things pile up at the bottom of the pipe. You need to use the longer, sweeping curves. This allows things to make a gentle slide, with the water continuing to push it along from the bottom, instead of just washing over the top of the pile.

Otherwise I'll sit back and learn from this thread some more.

--->Paul

[cc-rider]

Thanks for all the info! I'm feeling better about being able to do this myself! Those drawing were very helpful, Harry. I can just imagine trying to open that first one...ugh.

I'm a bit confused about the "T" in the septic tank, though. If I understand correctly, one end of the "T" is above the water...that I understand. The other end....the end that the discharge will be coming though.....goes under the water about 12-18"?? I don't understand how anything will come out that end if it is in water? I guess I picture those chicken feeders where water won't come out because it is already level, so why would waste water come out? Egads....I should have paid more attention in science class!!!!!

[rambler]

The chicken watterer uses vaccum to keep the water in the jug. The jug is sealed tight.

The tee is poen at the top, so as water rises up into the bottom piece of the tee, air can simpley float in or out of the top of the tee.

If you capped the top of the tee airtight, _then_ you would have the problem you are thinking of. The tee would be full of air, & not allow much water to rise into it from the bottom.

--->Paul

[Cabin Fever]

The "tee" in the septic tank is called a "baffle." There should be one on each end (the inlet and outlet). If you provide me with what the liquid depth of your septic tank is going to be, I can give you the exact dimensions of the required inlet and outlet baffles.

Here is the Minnesota table (so you can figure would you need by yourself). Let me know if you have any questions.

[Harry Chickpea]

A crust forms at the top of the water in a septic tank. That crust can be loose and thin or hard and thick. The wastewater entering the tank has to get to the main body of water so the bacteria can digest a lot of the organics. Without the T, the crust would clog the inlets and outlets. With the T, if a blockage forms, the pressure in the lead-in pipe pushes the cap of the crust up the T and the water flows under (in theory). What usually happens ins that the exchange of liquid in the T is fast enough that no significant crust forms there anyway. No crust should form in the outlet T, since the length of the tank is enough to give time for floaters to rise.

[ET1 SS]

When I put our septic tank in, I included a 2 inch PVC pipe inside that goes to about 4 inches off the bottom. On the outside that pipe is threaded and capped.

So now I can hook-up an ag pump and pump that thing down to 4 inches if I ever wanted to.

Now I understand that pumping it down is not exactly the same as a professional cleaning. It would leave sediment below the 4 inch mark and in the corners.

But since it is all setup, there is no harm in doing it every 5 years, even if the system is working fine.

[johnghagen]

It is 1/4 inch of fall per 10 foot of run,from your house conection to the tank.If you went 1/4 drop per foot in 40 feet your tank would have to be to far under ground.

[cc-rider]

I"m pretty darned sure it was 1/8" - 1/4" drop per FOOT according to the health dept who issued my permit. That only puts the tank about 10" lower than the house in a 40' run. Considering my basement hole is at the BOTTOM of my basement, that makes my tank even lower than the bottom of my basement, but it is. I'm sure it is.