Cheapest way to contain dogs?

mooman · #1 10/12/09, 09:58 AM

My neighbors, whose dogs killed half of my BBWs last week, are having trouble containing them. Don't ask me why with 6 kids and one dog already they felt the need to aquire 3 more dogs with no thought to future containment, but they did. We have (for now) a good relationship with them.

Since the incident we have talked about containment options.

Husband buys a kennel, wife says it's too small (it probably is)

I suggest tying them up in the short term, wife has read tying a dog up will make it mean.

I suggest getting rid of a couple of the new dogs, wife says "I have never given up an animal in my life". (I almost said: well you never had an animal that was hell bent on destroying someone elses property either)

Husband wants to build a fence, but doesn't want it to be ugly (and it will take time)

Finally I suggest possibly electric and mention he can dress it up with a board fence as funds become available. So the question hidden in my rant is:

Can you contain dogs with electric fence (hotwire, not underground with shock collars)? The property is about 8 acres. They have around $500 they can spend right now. Is it possible and what spacing of wires would you use?

Final gripe: Husband keeps hinting at helping me protect the birds. I have them contained in my 10,000sqft garden. I didn't predator proof it because of the expense and well...... in the 18 months I've been here I have never had a problem with any predators except those owned by other people (dogs). I really don't feel predator proofing my birds agains his dogs is something I should need to do. Even IF I did dog proof the garden, those dogs will stalk the birds through the fence and at thier size (20+ lbs) probably give them heart attacks

mooman · #2 10/12/09, 10:12 AM

Ohhh before anyone volunteers advice on protecting my birds. Next year they will be in a tractor surrounded by a strand of electric.

Janis Sauncy · #3 10/12/09, 10:13 AM

I have actually had excellent results containing my dogs with three-strand electric fencing.

A few of my dogs are so terrified of it that when I unplugged the charger and took the wire down in one spot so I could have some firewood delivered, they wouldn't even cross where the wire had been.

My biggest problem has been a couple of them have learned they can jump it. I've only been using those little fiberglass all-in-one posts, which aren't very tall. My next step might be to replace those with taller t-posts and make the top wire higher.

They do have to be "trained" to the fence by getting zapped a few times before they stay inside it for good.

Good luck.

RJMAcres · #4 10/12/09, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooman

My neighbors, whose dogs killed half of my BBWs last week, are having trouble containing them. Don't ask me why with 6 kids and one dog already they felt the need to aquire 3 more dogs with no thought to future containment, but they did. We have (for now) a good relationship with them.

Since the incident we have talked about containment options.

Husband buys a kennel, wife says it's too small (it probably is)

I suggest tying them up in the short term, wife has read tying a dog up will make it mean.

I suggest getting rid of a couple of the new dogs, wife says "I have never given up an animal in my life". (I almost said: well you never had an animal that was hell bent on destroying someone elses property either)

Husband wants to build a fence, but doesn't want it to be ugly (and it will take time)

Finally I suggest possibly electric and mention he can dress it up with a board fence as funds become available. So the question hidden in my rant is:

Can you contain dogs with electric fence (hotwire, not underground with shock collars)? The property is about 8 acres. They have around $500 they can spend right now. Is it possible and what spacing of wires would you use?

Final gripe: Husband keeps hinting at helping me protect the birds. I have them contained in my 10,000sqft garden. I didn't predator proof it because of the expense and well...... in the 18 months I've been here I have never had a problem with any predators except those owned by other people (dogs). I really don't feel predator proofing my birds agains his dogs is something I should need to do. Even IF I did dog proof the garden, those dogs will stalk the birds through the fence and at thier size (20+ lbs) probably give them heart attacks

Yep, electric fence will contain most dogs. We put electric fence between
each pair of barbed wires. Dogs can't climb the fence as the barbed wire
makes an excellent ground wire. Cheap and easy to do. You also need a
hot wire down low, maybe 6 inches off the ground to keep them from crawling under. After fence is all hot, you need to train the dogs to respect
it. Lots of folks will hang a few strips of bacon on the hot wire and let the
dogs try and grab it. Sounds cruel but it works. Our dogs learned by just
touching the wire while trying to get thru it. Took no more then twice for
any of them to get the idea that the fence bites.

Email me at Randy@MeinerSolutions.com if you need more info or help.

Randy

BamaSpek · #5 10/12/09, 10:23 AM

Man that stinks.

I know you didn't ask for this kind of advice and was asking how to contain a hell bent dog, but It is tough to do this and it would seem your neighbors are more concerned with their side of things than yours. That aint a god start.

A loose animal on a neighbors place is one thing (not great but it happens to everyone now and again I am sure). But a loose animal that destroys property again and again would not continue to get a round trip ticket in most places.

Alot of people would just SSS and bo done....

I would ask them to keep it tied up or inside until they gotthe fence, dog run, or whatever done......if not.............

Every situation is different but after all the talkin it seems you have done with the neighbors......I would politely tell them you don't want THEIR kids dogs to come to harm, but you gotta protect YOUR flock.

Freeholder · #6 10/12/09, 11:53 AM

Tying a dog up won't make it mean. It's how it's treated while it's tied up. They are usually more protective of their space while tied, because they are confined to a small space (I think this applies to humans, too!). But it would make a good temporary solution to the problem while they get something more permanent worked out. I would ask them to use chains rather than rope, as some dogs can and will chew through ropes in nothing flat. It doesn't sound like the dogs are very big, but for large dogs I don't like the store-bought dog chains at all. My seventy-pound dog would stretch those cheap chains out, and break the snaps, very quickly. He ended up with a heavier chain from the hardware store, with horse swivel-snaps added to both ends. Of course, he wasn't tied all the time, but when he had to be, this is what worked well.

Kathleen

oakwoods201 · #7 10/12/09, 12:03 PM

We have tied some of our dogs all of the time for the past 20 yrs. Tying does not make a dog mean. Some dogs just have mean genes, some get mean from no human interaction and some get mean from mistreatment. I have never had a dog get mean from tying out. Your neighbors could let the dogs off the chain once a day while they are outside with them where they can watch and make sure that the dogs will not get into any trouble.

TedH71 · #8 10/12/09, 12:35 PM

Tying up dogs and neglecting them can make them aggressive depending on the breed. Intact dogs are more aggressive. It's now against the law in some states to tie up your dog outside on chains...Texas is one of them but they do have a problem with people refusing to comply. If you do research on satisistics...chained dogs are one of the top biting dogs, intact dogs 2nd, then after that, you go by the breed.

Janis Sauncy · #9 10/12/09, 12:40 PM

My neighbors have two dogs that are spending their lives at the end of 12-foot chains.

They're never let off, they're never brought in the house.

I can't imagine a more miserable existence.

cowcreekgeeks · #10 10/12/09, 01:02 PM

I've had pretty good results keeping neighbors' dogs away from the chickens with the .22LR. About a nickel a bullet.

CHEAP!!! I learned that lesson after losing one bird to two dogs while being supervised free ranging.

Wait till the hawks move in. You think the dogs are bad...at least you can shoot them...with hawks? You just get to watch as they pick off your birds one by one.

65284 · #11 10/12/09, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowcreekgeeks

I've had pretty good results keeping neighbors' dogs away from the chickens with the .22LR. About a nickel a bullet.

CHEAP!!! I learned that lesson after losing one bird to two dogs while being supervised free ranging.

Wait till the hawks move in. You think the dogs are bad...at least you can shoot them...with hawks? You just get to watch as they pick off your birds one by one.

Right on! The cheapest way to contain dogs like those is in a deep hole with lots of dirt on top of them.

65284 · #12 10/12/09, 01:15 PM

Would they consider paying for a couple of strands of hot wire around your garden/turkey pen? Did they pay for the dead turkeys?

Wolf mom · #13 10/12/09, 01:21 PM

With $500.00 they can buy a 300 ft roll of 4 ft high field fencing and t-posts. Muscle & work will create a large run.
Go online & get an electric fence charger, some t-post fastners and wire.

String electrified wire down low & at the top. Put a tarp over a corner.

Plenty of room for all dogs & everyone should be happy.

PS I'd never tie a dog. It's a sad day when you go out & find they've strangled themselves.

romysbaskets · #14 10/12/09, 01:44 PM

There is a cheap way to make an immediate dog run that supplies all the room the dogs need and it is safe TEMPORARY ONLY. You take a cable secured to some trees very far apart up high and attach leads down to the dogs collars which must be secure. You play with them and teach them to run the length. Usually you will need to make each dog one of these as they can get tangled with each other if you put them on just one but never in the cable above their heads. These temporary only dog runs can provide a long area for the dog to run without the same dangers of tying them up. Due to their freedom of movement, most dogs are less inclined to be aggressive as with chains and short means of confinement. Then get that neighbor to do electric fencing immediately! I have a family member who did just that to keep COYOTES out of her chicken pens and away from her animals IT WORKS. Your neighbors have plenty of acreage to "fence in" a good portion of property for these animals. How much human interaction they get will gauge how aggressive they will be too. They can't just leave them in any confined space even if it is large without enough human touch and attention regularly. The trouble with electric fencing and a downside I see are their 6 CHILDREN, do they have time to devote to the dogs (is it fair to them?)! Are these dogs worth all this trouble for this family, would they be better off somewhere else? I would shudder to think that the kids would get shocked too! It is such a dilemma! However, it is their responsibility to keep their dogs on their property. My Grandfather had his cows killed by dogs that were loose where he lived! Can you imagine the cost of losing lifestock that big? He also had hunters trespass and hunt for deer and shoot his cows by mistake? Dogs that have tasted blood from your animals are coming back! They can't help their nature so the neighbors had better step up to the plate and do what is right!

I wish you the best with this....so sorry to hear about your losses!

Romy
Island Girl
www.romysrealm.blogspot.com/

ACountryMomma · #15 10/12/09, 01:44 PM

3 strands of hotwire keeps our dogs out of the goat pen. They each only tried it once & that was almost 2 years ago. They will not even come in through the gates with us.

ACountryMomma · #16 10/12/09, 01:49 PM

I forgot to mention the whole set up - wire, copper ground rods, charger, plastic poles (we didn't need it very high and wanted it portable so we chose not to use T-posts) handles for the gates, lighting protection - all for under $500.

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #17 10/12/09, 02:14 PM

combination pannel it has smaller openings like hog pannel down low but is as tall as cattle pannel 54" i think about 20-25 a pannel 16 feet long so 4-5 pannels would make a decent size enclosure especily if you can use part of a buiding for a side

if they jump on it a lot or jump over it i think a few hot wires would be in order

mooman · #18 10/12/09, 02:48 PM

Ok to address some replies.

The .22LR round.
I'm afraid it might come to that, but at this point they would know who did it and even if they understood why i did it, it would mean a pretty sour relationship. Not ready to throw away what was a good neighbor relationship just yet. Plus I love dogs and I KNOW these dogs. They aren't nameless strays from four properties over.

Hotwire for my pen.
As stated, it is in the works for next year, but....... I also have chickens that freerange. I sell the eggs. Without the freeranging the quality of my eggs would be no better than those found in a grocery store and they would cost me twice as much to produce. I picked the property because it is large enough and has natural barriers that keep the chickens on MY property.

Natural Preds (Hawks)
I cannot explain it, but we have lots of hawks around here and after 12 months of freeranging the chickens I witnessed exactly one FAILED hawk attack. When I had four hens in a suburban back yard we had one attempt by hawks every single day. The barn and several patches of trees and thick brush seem to serve as natural hawk deterents (so far).

Thank you all, it sounds like electric is the way to go. I will let him know, and offer to help with the instalation as soon as I get home.

Itilley · #19 10/12/09, 02:54 PM

We put in a fence that goes the whole length of the back of our house. My fear was that our Dachsund, (know for digging) would dig her way out. She never digs at all. I think she is lazy. So it works well for keeping her put.

RenieB

Danaus29 · #20 10/12/09, 03:30 PM

mooman, your neighbor needs a different wife.

But all kidding aside, people can keep their dogs kenneled and let them out to exercise and play and not have mean dogs. Mom keeps her dogs contained (except the geriatric female beagle who is a house dog) and lets them out to play and exercise while she or Pop supervise. Those dogs are the sweetest things and the biggest babies you have ever seen. The lab still thinks he is a lap dog and will try to crawl in your lap if you sit down outside.

Kenneled or electric fence. They need to keep their animals contained. Otherwise you might have to resort to the .22.