Newbie with a question

[the YoungMan]

Hey all, I'm new here and actually very green to the whole farming thing. I was raised in NW Arkansas on 55 acres. Unfortunately though, most of my youth was spent either helping my dad cutting/chopping trees, or under the hood tinkering with a car and not farming the land or cattle..But now, I have a desire to get more back to the roots of my grandfather and give some farm stuff a try.
Now, I currently have 13 acres at my disposal. I now live in North Texas, and I was wanting to start small and get a few head of cattle to raise for beef. I also have an 8 yr old girl who is showing a strong interest in 4H, so I'm hoping to get a good handle on this by the time that she is ready to get a calf to show... Presently, we have 7 horses on the land, so I plan on fencing in part of the land for the cows. My questions, do I have enough land for what I want to do? Are there any laws about or against having cattle close to housing neighborhoods? (the land is next door to the neighborhood which I live, but it isn't HOA)

K, sorry for the book, but I have a lot of questions.. I am pretty humble, if I don't know something, I ask..Even if it makes me look silly or stupid..

Thanks!

[uncle Will in In.]

Welcome Youngman. 13 acres is a nice size patch for a homesteader. You do know it's not the King ranch, so your livestock numbers needs to match the carrying capacity of your ground. You are horse poor right now. Get rid of 5 horses, and get three or 4 top quality feeder calves. You would still need to buy hay, but you'd be on the right track to show a calf at the fair. Your girl might like to be in the horse club also. Anyplace is big enough for a small chicken flock. That's another 4H project. Looks like you will be busy. <>UNK

[the YoungMan]

Oh trust me, my wife and her are in several riding clubs..But, we were at the county fair and she loved the idea of raising and showing her own cow..And I wanna do right by her and the cows, so I need to get all of my ducks in a row first...Yes, I planned on providing hay for the cattle..The horses get fed grain once a day, and graze the rest..I'm thinking that the sectioned off part of the field for the cattle would be 3-5 acres...leaving the rest for whatever horses we have..IF the cattle and horse can behave together, then I'd love to have open roam for all, but from what I hear/read, that's a lot to ask for them!

Thanks for the response!

[Tricky Grama]

Welcome & hope you learn as much as I'm still learning.

Patty

[Windy in Kansas]

Welcome to the forums.

[firegirl969]

Showing cows with 4-H can be very good for youngsters. I knew people that went to school back when I graduated that showed cattle that did very well in the show arena and they were able to go to college on the money that they saved from those ventures. Welcome to the forum and remember that the only stupid question is an unasked question. Blessings, firegirl

[turtlehead]

Okay I'm NOT a cow/horse person but I do know that the "carrying capacity" of land varies greatly from region to region. For example, one acre in Kentucky, with the lush bluegrass, can sustain more than an acre in the TX hill country, where it's brushy at best. So you might get answers from folks on here who are in N. TX or who have lived there. Also ask any neighbors that raise cattle. Also ask your county extension agent, they'll be able to help you a lot.

Laws about having livestock near homes are going to vary from county to county, township to township, and neighborhood to neighborhood. Start with a call to your court house.

Welcome to HT! There are, thankfully, no dumb questions here.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Depends on the rainfall in your area, etc. That's an awful lot of horses for that acreage, especially if you add cattle. Reduce the horse population, add a couple of cattle, see what happens.

Cross fence into at least five smaller areas and rotational graze.

My horses and cattle get along fine.

[the YoungMan]

Thanks a ton for all who have responded so far..Keep the input coming, it all is sinking in..I did find out that the rule about livestock/land ratio is 3 acres for the 1st cow or horse, then one cow/horse for every acre after that..The reason that I asked about the rules about cows near a neighborhood was that around here, horses are almost reveered as a royalty..So, there are alot of neighborhoods are are built around the horse property...But, you try to put cattle there, and people start fussing..

As far as "cross fencing", is that basically just sectioning off parts of the field? Why would you do this instead of just separating the field in two? Maybe it means something else...??

[the YoungMan]

Just to reiterate on the above post..I am not saying that I think that my land will sustain that much livestock..As it is, if I were to add anymore livestock, then I will have to start providing more food..

[Alice In TX/MO]

Rotational grazing allows better recovery for the grass. It's a well known management technique.

I found this website that has small farm management plans.
http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/pa...zingmanagement

[ronbre]

i can't see why you couldn't have cows if you have horses..myself..but who knows..i don't know Texas.

[haypoint]

If you are going to provide hay and grain, you should be alright on that amount of land.

Having seven horses seems like a problem to me. Sort of like having seven vehicles, each with the engine running.
I love horses. I've had more than seven. It is a waste. Trouble is that the horse market is so poor, you might have trouble getting rid of them.

Every young girl should have her own horse by the time she's 13. For some reason, it keeps them away from boys for a few years. Anyone with a boy crazy 13 year old, would gladly trade for a horse addiction. You will likely be stuck shoveling manure behind her horse for years after she's gone off to college, but it is still worth it.


Unless you can run a profitable riding stable, get rid of the excess horses.

[the YoungMan]

Well, as far as the 7 horses are concerned, only 4 are actually ours..We have been taking care of a 24yo Gelding and a 14yo mare for about 8 years..They are ours only because the couple that owns them are up there in age and they have put them in their will to us. My wife rides the 14yo in Playdays, and I ride the 24yo around the field and on trails, parades, etc.. A while back, we bought another mare for my daughter to have and playday on..It was a rescue situation and we didn't have much history. As it turns out, she was pregnant upon purchase and so now we have a little filly that is under 1 yo.. The other 3 horses are people who board there...So, 3 of the horses are going to be leaving within the next year or so..that should help...

Here is the "lay of the land" if that helps..as you can see, as close to "in town" as you can get..surrounded by houses...urgh

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by ronbre

i can't see why you couldn't have cows if you have horses..myself..but who knows..i don't know Texas.

Cows tend to be very timid creatures and will run from a horse, the horse then follows the cows. What you end up with looks a lot like horses chasing cows. Cows do much better when allowed to just graze and chew cud peacefully, without all the exercise.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Nice looking layout you have there Young Man...... but that close in, you do need to check with the local authorities about zoning and which critters are allowed or not allowed. If they are not prohibited, build good fences and enjoy yer homestead.

[the YoungMan]

Yes, I'll have to redo some of the fences...The horses never really explore or push the limits, but the cows I'm sure might..Plus, I am thinking redo the barbed wire fencing in the places that it needs repair, then run electric fence everywhere also...For the time being, I am thinking that only a couple would be nice..Gives me a chance to get my feet wet and not be overwelmed..And, like many have said, the land might not sustain more anyways..even though I plan on feeding..I'm gonna fence off the SW part of the field..This gives me/them access to a small barn, (which needs to be worked on) and fresh water and a small pond...This section is closed off from the horses and it has its own access points..That way I can come and go from the road, without even disturbing the horses...
Thoughts?

I have a call into the zoning office, hopefully they give me the go ahead..If not, then I suppose this is all just for knowledge.. :-)

[indianheadranch]

One thing about horses they have top and bottom teeth where as cattle don't, horses they can bite the grass closer to the ground where as a cow can't, now where you live and i live is not that much different in growing grass, also be advised with that grass recovery can be a lot longer with horses, even with moisture and fertilizer, horses should never be kept together very long as they will do what you call grouping, if one does it they all want to do it, also with cattle in the same lot you have it is not much room as they will chase cattle away from the feed trough, i suggest you look around and try to find some answers close to where you live, go to the sale barn and strike up a conversation with some of the local cattlemen or women get their advice. one other thing about how many stock can fit an acre always remember some folks run a cow to the acres while some areas run acres to the cow, Good luck with your 13 acres,

[the YoungMan]

thanks a ton for all of the info that ya'll have given..I am soaking it all in and taking it all into consideration! It is nice to be able to have a place like this to bounce off ideas and get opinions! This place is the best!

[emulkahi1]

Hey there YoungMan! I just thought I'd add this suggestion. You should google Joel Salatin (polyface farms) and check out his methods for moving livestock (cows, chickens, rabbits) about his acreage in VA. He's written a lot of books (one called Salad Bar Beef might be particularly relevant to what you're wanting to do), but you can get an idea for what he does by reading the stuff you find about him online. I remember reading in an interview somewhere that his farm's foundational principle was moving animals, sometimes every day, so that they weren't grazing in "yesterday's toilet area". lol....

I guess their property in VA started out soil-poor and now has incredible top soil, biodiversity, etc, thanks to the grazing techniques. (Granted, it is VA, where it rains). I am just starting out following the example w/ chickens. We'll see how it goes.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in there. Good luck to you!

Erin