good deal for me

henry2 · #1 09/22/09, 09:28 AM

one of the churchs lady i know ask to to call her son about something after a seeing them in town the other day for i come over to az for a couple of days to work on somethings that i need to do around the homestead and get the fence people out there to put up the fence line around the land and the cattle gate installed on the driveway,,

.her son just got of the army after 8 years in and started his own homestead as part of there homestread up there with his wife and two kids..they have been up there for about 3 months now and started there own little homestead on the mom and dad place up there,.

along with doing odd jobs here and there for people to earn money as need ..

the mom knew i was thinking about running mini cattle typle on the land for her and husband Will has a couple and we where talking about the diff typles that would be good for az mountain weather ,.

that when her son ask me to do this..

if i buy the cattle herd for him..he take care of it and will would spilt the money made off the sales ..30-30 with rest going back into buying fresh cattle stock for inproveing the blood line ..

this is want i offered to the guy ..i buy the herd of 6 cow along with one bull and one milk cow for the kids and you wife to use as need ..along with the feed and hay for the first 6 months of the operation..for i ready have talked to the local feed store about feed for them along with the hay the family buys as a group ..

we spent it this way ..when we sell the cattle for we do a 30 30 spilt with the rest going back into the fund for buying new stock and feed for the rest of the year.

also i will buy you so many chickens and a single rooster also..for they allready have a couple of goats up there ..

we butcher one cattle a year for us to stock the frezzer..i get so many pds of meat and you can have the rest after we have it dress out at the butcher shop ..

along with fresh eggs once a week and some fresh milk a couple times a week when iam back there ..

for this is how i look at ..they do the work and i get fresh meat and eggs and milk out of in about three years time frame when i get back to az for my last two years before i retirement ..

so it that a fair trade with them doing the labor on the cattle and chickens
or is takeing advantage of the person ..

i allso told him this after 6 months time frame you should have something going with the cattle and least three should be ready drop a calf here in the next three months time frame ..

cc-rider · #2 09/22/09, 09:53 AM

I don't know, but it sounds like a good deal to me if I were that couple! I'd do it in a heartbeat. They have no investment up front -- right?

PNP Katahdins · #3 09/22/09, 10:05 AM

What happens if they don't take very good care of the stock and start losing them, or they decide it's not working out for them? Get a partnership done on paper to protect both of you.

When he was feeding cattle years ago, Paul had a livestock-sharing deal with someone. Paul did all the work and ended up paying all the bills too because the other guy wouldn't do his part except want to collect money when the stock was sold. That didn't last long except for the hard feelings. Be very careful!

I hope you can make it work to benefit both sides in the long run. That's what it takes.

Peg

henry2 · #4 09/22/09, 11:52 AM

i did tell them that there where paperwork up front about somethings..like the vet bills i would go 50.50 on ..the feed bill for the first 6 months have been taken care of..i did that this morning with a line of credit for the feed at the feed store..,..

along with knowing the guy father and mother for over 20.years and how well they runs there little cattle ranch set up ..i do not think the problem with the mistreat of the herd for the father would not stand for that..plus i think the mom and dad would call me if there was a problem and it not things where not getting done right ..and the dad would step and take over the herd if that happens for that in the papers that he has to sign in a couple of weeks ..,

i never had a problem with the mom about the food deal with them ..for it allways been they used my land to grow a large multi family garden on and i got part of the take from the garden and it work now for 12.years..

this is what i told him ..i put up the money ..but you have to do all the work along with the complete and total careing for the cattle inless you need help with the vet ..you and you only will be the one takeing care of them.... ..the only time you will see me is when i need meat or milk or eggs when iam liveing in the area

to my way fo thinking is this..the kid got a good head on shoulder and just needs a little helping hand here with a little seed money to get started ..

i allso told him and wife this ..i will gone from the area for the next three years ..so that means you have three years to build up the herd and there should be at least one calf a year born to three or more out of the starting herd of six cows and one bulls ..

so that means when i come back to the area ..i should see at least 12 to 14 head of cattle in the herd ..with once a year butching of a cow for the family to stock the frezzer with ..

i did ask the terry.. why me ..he said you single and you have been a person that my mother said have helped out here and there with some of the deals in the areas about you helping with some of the local projects about putting up seed money in the area..

plus my mother tells me you very fungal with your money for his mother says iam very much of a penny pincher at times...his mother watched me pay someone a bill that was not do for another week and they where talking to me about not beening late with the payment ..so i took a all the pennys i had at the time in the penny jar i keep in the house along with the going by the bank and picking up the rest of the money need to pay the bills in pennys and took it over to them in a five large bags of unrolled pennys and told them here is your payment that you are so worryed about .for we where in the local drinner and the person went out of there way to do this in front of people that i knew and they where just beening a ---- about things between me and them for there was a long history of bad blood typle things between me and him... along with you telling someone one day that you do not put your hard earned money into foolish projects as once explained to a person in the area that came to you with a idea and it turned out your where right about the idea ..i have to think that the idea has a chance before i will try to help in the project with a little seed money . ..

i have a couple of bad projects go south of me ..but it was not for the lack of trying on the people part of the projects.. it was just bad timeing and a lack of sales in the area..but that was before the internet had really taken off and i think it will did those ideas now they would take off like mad ..

cc-rider · #5 09/22/09, 12:05 PM

Darn! You don't want to move to Ohio, do you??

I'm looking this over again. After the first 6 months, do they cover the food bill totally themselves? If so, it won't take long before their food bill is more than the initial cost of the first batch of cows. For instance, in a few years, they will have raised and fed more cows than you gave them initially, but they are only getting 30% of the profits now. Now sure how I'd feel about that after a couple years of doing all the work, paying all the expenses, and getting 30% of the profits.

Or am I looking at this wrong?

indianheadranch · #6 09/22/09, 12:31 PM

Good luck & with that small of an operation it should work,but only if the faithfulness & trust & understanding of both parties hold up their agreement, most big cattle ranches now days are started in a partnership, but usually the partners are part of the family with an understanding of a overseer to watch over the operation, when the feed bills for hay and grain come in & the beef from the packing house, if neither party fills cheated the first year or two ya might have a good deal in the making, like i said good luck & hope everything works out for ya,

**Ross** · #7 09/22/09, 01:51 PM

Quote:

if i buy the cattle herd for him..he take care of it and will would spilt the money made off the sales ..30-30 with rest going back into buying fresh cattle stock for inproveing the blood line ..

30% for you 30% for him and 40% back in??? There's a 60% profit on cattle these days? Seems a little high to me.

henry2 · #8 09/23/09, 09:47 AM

where still in the stages of working some of the whole spilt out ..with 3 years he completely owns the herd and our deal is about the so many pds of beef for me to have in the year time for my own personal use per year..that how he pays me back after the three years for seed money stake..that worked out in the paperwork ..

but could you go to the bank now days and get a loan for some many head of cattle with the way the today banks are closeing down right and left ..

so many years of doing this typles of deals i learned that the money put into the local area is a lot better than trying to go to the bank and have the bank give you the money ..the will want you land as something they can hold onto..all i asking out of you is a good faith try on you part..along with if you fail at least i know that you tried and you have it your best shot at the time..

so what happens after you fail with the bank ..they come and take the land and you lost everything,,,

i once did deal with a lady about chickens and i have so many eggs comeing to me that i will never be able to eat all the eggs that i have comeing..she take the extras eggs over to the school for there morning breakfast program for the kids ..
for i told her i could never eat that many eggs in my life time ..

if i want something i go over to the house knock on the door and say hello mrs m-may i have a one dozen eggs from you please..or if she sees my truck at the person house ,..i get a vist from the person with a couple of dozen eggs for use as need ..

to me it basic ok here the deal work hard and try and you might have something in the end ..do not work hard and you are never going to have something in the end ..

henry2 · #9 09/23/09, 09:59 AM

it my money that he going to spend for he is not putting up any money in the deal and it his hard work and sweat that will make the thing work or make it fell ..

so iam the one that out the money in the end not him,,

**Ross** · #10 09/23/09, 10:16 AM

Quote:

so iam the one that out the money in the end not him,,

That's kinda where I was going with that; but, if there are other details that make the idea work for you and you're happy with it then who should stand in the way of happiness?? I've tried working with others in shared ownership deals before and unless their family I'll never do it again!

henry2 · #11 09/23/09, 04:59 PM

that the whole thing is that he want to make it ..he has to do the work not me ...me i get the fact the i get to try to help someone when they starting out .

iam not that heartless that where the project did not meet the first year goals..i am not comeing into the guy home and saying that well.. you did not meet the first year goals ,..so iam takeing the project away from you ..

randy11acres · #12 09/23/09, 07:26 PM

Make sure there is a time limit that you split the vet bills. Otherwise it sounds like a good deal.

agmantoo · #13 09/23/09, 07:40 PM

Good luck! You will need it. I mentored a young man for three years. I am, IMO, a seasoned cattleman that runs a for profit cow/calf operation and makes a decent profit. I provided a farm for free to this person to get into the cattle business. He knew it all and knew nothing. In the 3 years he never earned a nickels worth of profit. The cattle were stressed and did not bring the original purchase price when eventually sold. It was a complete failure.

bruce2288 · #14 09/23/09, 09:44 PM

In my part of the country leaseing cows is not uncommon. To make it simple owner of cows gets one third of calf crop, operator supplies all the feed salt mineral vacinations vet supplies and labor and gets 2/3 of calves, usually a date as to when calves are sold or picked up by owner and often% of death loss shared then all calf loss resides with the operator.

henry2 · #15 09/23/09, 11:03 PM

that pretty much how we are going on the deal ..i get one third of the calf crop for beef along with i supplies all the feed and other items need as need..

with death loss we stare togerther ..

he grew up ranching so iam happy with that fact..along with the plan he laid out on paper for the idea behind the mini cow set up ..

he did a business plan when he was in college and the military about mini cows and how they could make the family money with meat and milk down the line in a three year term ..

at the three year the operation should be self supporting in it own stage at that end of the market..