Pros and Cons of Homesteading in Suburbia

[farmerbrian]

Hi Everyone,

Been reading the Gardenweb forums for a few years and learned quite a bit, but the homesteading subforum sees very little activity there and I was a little discouraged. Dont no why it took me so long to find this place (its the first hit when searching for "homesteading forum") but I am very happy to finally find an active community online of like minded people!

My family is about 2 years into our homesteading plan and we are well on our way to eliminating all debt and learning self reliance skills. Wife and I are in late 20s with a 1 year old daughter and hopefully several more children in the near future. We hacked a 1/4 acre garden out of brush and brambles last fall, winter, and this spring and I am very happy with our first year's results at homestead food production. I have some pics I need to share of our awesome potato harvest on Sunday!. We are heating with wood (much of it free -love Craigslist!), freezing and canning, and critically looking at all the money we spend.

So all in all im very comfortable we are on the right track except for one small item....the homestead location. We currently live on the fringes of the Hartford suburbs in Colchester CT. Population is 16,000ish, no major commercial centers (malls big box etc), those are about 20-30 min away in multiple directions. Some particulars about our property:

• Flat 3 acre lot with a 20 y/o 3bd 1700 sq ft home.
• Probably 90% is nice and dry and other 10% has some low spots that dry out in early summer.
• Older, widely spaced development (but a development none the less)
• No HOA
• Its a nice open airy home, wife and both love it here, 500 ft off a quiet road
• Zoning is rural residential which says right at the top "agriculture in all its forms" with 2 exceptions: commercial piggeries and fur production operations

What I would love to discuss with everyone is their take on the pros/cons of suburban homesteading. I will start the list with what I have in my head now.

Advantages:

• Lots of 9-5 jobs if needed
• Large potential market closeby for any home-based business venture
• Convenience to the services and goods you must pay for
• Large community of people and all the positive interaction potential there

Disadvantages:

• property value: Land is not valued for its direct usefulness, but many things a homesteader is not interested in (proximity to office jobs in big city being a big one)
• property taxes: high value and lots of services means lots of taxes
• close neighbors: My neighbors all all wonderful but I have already gotten a few vibes of uneasiness from my closest neighbor about my homesteading activities. And there is no guarantee current neighbors will be there forever

What else can I add to both of the above lists? I know our current location could turned into a wonderful homestead but my mind keeps changing on if typical suburban plot is right place for us ultimately. Wife and I both have to work full time for another 8 or so years to pay for our current location, the tax burden will always be there..3 acres is marginal for a lot of livestock activities, not big enough for a woodlot.....

Many times when I close my eyes and dream I just see us in a much more rural place than where we are now where we can have a greater degree of autonomy. Just trying to get some realistic perspective on it all to decide if its just "grass is greener" type of thinking.

Thanks for reading!

Brian

[cfabe]

Sounds like a pretty nice place you've got there. Yes you do have neighbors to deal with but zoning is on your side and even if it changes, you will likely be grandfathered.

If you are really a true believer in self sufficency and you are working toward 100% self sufficent, 3 acres may not be enough land. But you can raise lots of chickens or a few goats on that much land which will can provide quite a lot of food for your family.

Internet access is important to many people these days and lots of rural areas are very underserved compared to cities. We had to spend a lot of money to build a 100 foot radio tower to get the same speed internet I had 10 years ago in the city. And no chance of upgrade for the forseeable future.

Shopping can be more limited. In some areas if you can't find it at home depot or walmart, forget it, there are no other choices. I've ended up ordering things on the internet more often, which is not a big deal except for perishable foods.

Schools are quite often not as good as in the suburbs. This will vary of course. Where we live now, I would not send my kids to the nearest school. I hope I can get them in to a neighboring school which is better. Do your homework on this, talk to parents in the area if you can.

[bubbahead]

You said that both you and the wife love it there.

Stay put. There is no "con" listed that is any stronger than that.

Enjoy your home and all of the potential.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Sounds ideal to me!

[Danaus29]

Unless you want to go into full scale farming or raise large animals you can do just fine on 3 acres. You won't have enough land now to raise grain crops to feed to livestock but you could raise enough grass hay to feed a few rabbits. You could have a few chickens or ducks to keep bugs down and give you some eggs. Put in an orchard and bramble patch, maybe a few mulberry trees and a strawberry patch and you've pretty much got the best of both worlds.

But me, I NEED 40 acres. I'd like to have 400 or even 4,000 but 40 is my minimum. Probably will never get it, unless the developers decide they want to make this area into a resort type development (national scenic river, lovely metro park, beautiful location, good spot for that kind of thing).

[Wags]

If you haven't already read "Backyard Homesteading" then check it out at your local library. It shows what can be one with 1/10 to 1 acre. After reading that you will be inspired with what you can do on 3 acres!

The only thing that book doesn't really mention is Nigerian Dwarf goats - they put pigs in a space that they called "too small for goats" but would have been more than fine for Nigerians. (IMHO goats will produce way less complaints from neighbors than pigs!) Nigerians are such cuties that they seem to charm the socks off all but the most hard hearted of neighbors, and they are safe (well as any animal ever is) for small kids to be around. My son was only 18 months old when we got our first goats and the herd queen treated him like he was one of her babies. If he cried she would run to check on him, and in general just looked after him.

Some folks say they don't give much milk, but there are starting to be a lot more 2-3 quart a day milkers available, and since they can be bred year round it doesn't take very many to keep a steady milk supply year round, plus they have a pretty high butter fat content. And there are some nationally known Nigerian breeders near you.

And of course chickens are more than possible. I keep mine in with same pasture area as my goats, and just make sure their feed is up high enough that the goats can't get into it. They do have their own housing, and laying space.

You have already gotten a good start on the garden, so maybe this fall you can get a dwarf or semi-dwarf orchard planted. It will take a while to mature, but you should start to see the fruits of your labors in a couple of years.

Homesteading with young ones can be challenging, so starting small is usually good way to go. Now that my oldest is 5 she can handle all of the chores except the milking. And she can even handle the buck without my worrying in the slightest for her safety - usually more concerned about his.

[Beeman]

Advantages:
Lots of 9-5 jobs if needed
Large potential market closeby for any home-based business venture
Convenience to the services and goods you must pay for
Large community of people and all the positive interaction potential there

Disadvantages:
property value: Land is not valued for its direct usefulness, but many things a homesteader is not interested in (proximity to office jobs in big city being a big one)
property taxes: high value and lots of services means lots of taxes
close neighbors: My neighbors all all wonderful but I have already gotten a few vibes of uneasiness from my closest neighbor about my homesteading activities. And there is no guarantee current neighbors will be there forever


Pros:
It sounds like you're from that area, a major advantage to live where you know and family live.
Property values should hold. Being close to a city is a big plus as energy prices rise.
Being close to a large wealthy population makes any services or products you sell worth a lot more.
Culture, plenty of art, music,museums in that area.
Education, excellent area for education opportunities.
Money. No doubt there is more money changing hand and in value in an area like that. Also many don't believe it but many things are cheaper due to volume in a city area.

[farmerbrian]

cfabe thank you those are both good points for the suburbs, internet access and school systems. Schools in our town have good reputation and DSL is $15/month....

Alice and bubbahead: Our current home is a wonderful place to live but it was purpose built to fulfill the typical American Suburbanite dream of big house, big lawn, easy commute to the city, near the malls etc. That was exactly what we were going after 3.5 years ago when we bought it. We drew a circle around hartford and anything outside of that 1/2 hour commute circle was not considered. Now our priorities have changed....a lot.

What I'm struggling with is does it make sense to work so hard to pay off the mortgage on a property that is drastically overvalued because its in a nice neighborhood development and near a large city? In less than a decade neither of those things will matter to us. Yes we could decide to move somewhere later and take that equity with us, but then we are starting our homestead all over.

Danuas and wags, a dwarf orchard is exactly what I am planning right now. Might not get in till the spring though but we'll be ready for it. I'll be planting every kind of fruit tree that grows in CT!

And ive been looking at dwarf dairy goats as well, met woman at the fair who turned to be just around the corner from me. She has a small herd of Nigerians and Iwill be visiting her soon.

Homesteading with young ones can be challenging, so starting small is usually good way to go

You sure got that right! Likely wont be getting any animals, (maybe a couple of birds) until I smooth out the the garden operation. Been using Ruth Stout deep mulching and love it, just need to get the whole garden under control under a deep layer of mulch first then time should free up for other ventures like Dairy goats.

[Wags]

But if you put the work in and LEARN from it - then if/when you move to another place you will take all that LEARNING with you. Your decisions about what will/won't work for you will be more solidified and you will make a more informed choice on the next parcel.

Plus if you wait to move to a larger place - your kids will be older and better able to help with chores.

[farmerbrian]

You are absolutely right about the learning aspect. That is why I am so glad we ended up in a place with a few acres in a spreadout neighborhood. We looked at a few newer homes on tiny little lots and they didnt feel quite right but they were considered.

[NCLee]

Sounds like you've got the makings of a good homestead right where you are. Especially after you mentioned goats in the neighborhood! You've already invested quite a bit, where you are.

Look for a book, One Acre and Security for a lot of info on making a homestead on a shoestring of land. You've got 3 times that much!! The first chapter is "Country Living near the Cities".

Some of the chapters are
Making Money with the Ancient Art of Herb Culture
Getting Healthy and Wealthy from Honey
Raising and Selling Rabbits and Earthworms
Running a Poultry Farm with a Hitch
Eating from Nature's Free Banquet Table
and more on frogs, fruits, vegetables, goats, etc.

I've been living on 3 acres since 1974. While I'd like to have a lot more land, that's just wishing thinking, as we really don't need it in order to have a homestead.

Lee

[Parrothead]

Con:
If you live in a desirable burb area, then you should realize that zoning regs will change in the future. Usually what happens is more people move to the burbs, population increases, and things change (for the worse). This is a huge problem in my state of PA. Many of the once rural areas have been eaten up by development. Keep in mind that you should plan for the future in your long term goals.

[madness]

Disadvantages:

* property value: Land is not valued for its direct usefulness, but many things a homesteader is not interested in (proximity to office jobs in big city being a big one)
* property taxes: high value and lots of services means lots of taxes
* close neighbors: My neighbors all all wonderful but I have already gotten a few vibes of uneasiness from my closest neighbor about my homesteading activities. And there is no guarantee current neighbors will be there forever

High property value isn't always a bad thing to have! Yes, taxes are going to be higher, but it's an investment. Not all properties in the country increase in value as much as suburban properties in my experience.

Neighbors in the country can be just as bothersome as neighbors in the city too...

I think your situation sounds great. I have a similar one and I love it!

[stanb999]

Originally Posted by farmerbrian

We drew a circle around hartford and anything outside of that 1/2 hour commute circle was not considered. Now our priorities have changed....a lot.

You sound a bit like us 7 years ago. Make the best of what you have... Then if the drive to homestead is still strong you can do what we did. We drew a 300 miles radius on the map. So we could be within a weekend trip to family.

The cons of living real rural are many and you will see folks complain about them on this forum from time to time. But over all it's a better life IMHO.

[Danaus29]

farmerbrian, you asked "What I'm struggling with is does it make sense to work so hard to pay off the mortgage on a property that is drastically overvalued because its in a nice neighborhood development and near a large city?"

Let's look at that realistically. Can you afford to stay where you are? Could you sell for what you owe on the property? Can you find something bigger and better that would cost less? You have to live somewhere. Renting until you find the ideal location would give you no chance to reap the fruits of your labor. This way anything you do is an improvement or helps provide for you in some way. Sure you might find something else in 10 years, but in 10 years your current house can be mostly paid off or at least producing some food for you.

I'm also stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. I want to live in the country so bad. But we have all our assets tied up in these properties. With some work and the right set of circumstances we could make an awful lot of money from the sale of our current property. But we still have to live somewhere and eat food from someplace. I grew up on a farm and know the reality of the hard work a large farm entails. Dh doesn't really want that lifestyle. So here we set. In the meantime we have plans and dreams for this house. Sometimes you just have to work with what you've got.

[Jennifer L.]

Your big advantage is your age: You've got a piece of property that's going to go up in value right along, and when the pressure gets to be high, you can sell and move to another place with a nice chunk of change. If that happens in 20 years you'll still only be in your mid-40's. So you'll be in the position of having your dream place, and at the same time, probably be able to bank some of the proceeds from the sale of the place you have now.

Your biggest advantage is having figured out early what you want to do.

Three acres is not that big, but it's big enough for quite a lot. In a high tax area you don't want any more than you are going to use, in any case.

Good luck. Sounds like you and your family will do well.

Jennifer

[Curtis B]

If you like where you live stay there. If you think that you might want a bigger property as time goes on you can always watch the improvements you do. After three years of living where I do DW and I know that it is not enough land for us. We are now doing everything we can to make the most $$ off our property and stashing it all back. We are only putting money into the things we can take with us when we move (livestock and equipment). We still take good care of the place, but the big addition to the house is out. If it doesn't increase the value of the place or maintain it we don't do it. Within 7 years we plan to have enough set back and in equity to buy what we dream of. IMO most neighbors can't be far enough away.

[springvalley]

Not my kind of space but everyone needs to have a place. If you are happy that is all that matters. Will your neighbors mind if you have a big Garden, chickens maybe? Bunnies may work for you. All kinds of ideas can make your place , a paradise. good luck Thanks Marc

[farmerbrian]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies.

As you've said I guess what counts right now is that we are happy and also the 1/3 of an acre of the property we are putting to use now is using up all the free time we have.

Pros:
It sounds like you're from that area, a major advantage to live where you know and family live.

Yes both of born in raised in CT. Right now we are inbetween our two families about 40 min from mine and 20 from hers. You are right that is a huge advantage as both of our families are very supportive and my mom is a closet homesteader who is now coming out with little encouragement from wife and I.

High property value isn't always a bad thing to have! Yes, taxes are going to be higher, but it's an investment. Not all properties in the country increase in value as much as suburban properties in my experience.

The taxes are secondary to the initial purchase price, if both DW and I didnt have high-paying jobs, we would not be looking at a 8 year horizon for owning our home outright. It would be the full 30 years and that would be pretty depressing to me right now. Im sure many generations before me have had same thought but man i wish we could have purchased a little sooner before RE prices got silly. And for the appreciation aspect....so far we probably lost 50K or so in "value"

So the depreciation issue, combined with we have all we can handle currently and we actually like it here means we wont be going anywhere anytime soon. But that doesnt stop my dreams from wandering to places like VT, maine ....really rural New England. The Nearing's , Ruth Stouts(she actually lived in CT), John Seymour's books, and M. F. "one straw revolution" when I read those a voice sort of screamed constantly in my head "This is what I've been looking for!" So yeah the degree of self sufficiency I may want some day might not be attainable where we live but I just need to be happy with the tremendous blessings we've recieved so far and cross that bridge when we get there.

[willow_girl]

Shoot, I have 4 acres now, 1/2 of it wooded, and despair that I'll ever get it entirely under cultivation!