Barn Layout Advice Needed

[Salem5]

Hi there looking for some advice about barn use/contents/layout etc

Some context: New to forum. New to having more than .17 acre. New to having animals....Pretty much just new so please assume gross ignorance (even though I have been stalking the threads for a bit.)

48x36 non insulated pole barn just about finished. 36x36 insulated shop also about finished.

The primary purpose of the 48x36 barn is to house (when they are not out in the pasture [5 acres]) a Dexter cow/calf combo and a few goats all of which we plan to get in the future when ready.

Given the above, the things we are thinking about now for the barn now (but want feedback on) are:
2 cow stalls
2 goat stalls
1 milking stanchion
Tack/Tool room or area
small Hay/feed mow
Sink
hose bibs
gfi outlets
some lighting
Only 2 windows now
1 overhead door and 1 one 'people' door

Queries:
What is missing from this list? Shouldn't be on it? You would do differently?
So many different stall types/styles/sizes. What would you do for the cows? What for the goats?
What type of lights should we do? Got different responses from different electricians.
What ventilation should we do beyond the 2 windows?
The floor is still construction gravel. Concrete going in the shop. What for the barn?

Other context details: 16 foot walls. In Willamette Valley Oregon. Don't need to skimp but not interested in fancy.

Thank you for your attention in advance.

[mare]

i would make one stall for the goats--they like company

[brody]

I would build the most adaptable layout I could ... you are fairly new to this all and may find you want to change things up
I personally always like the 12 x 12 box stall model - a stall size makes a good tack room, tool room, wash stall whatever you need

I would personally centralize the location of the feed, water, tool areas as you will be treking from them to every stall going ...
thats a great size barn - you should be able to do everything you want and more with it
re flooring - it depends on your long term goals but poured concrete is easy to clean and sterilize - and dig proof ..

[brody]

ummm more windows if at all possible - up here anyhow natural light is really important in the winter

[CindyOR]

We, too, are in the Willamette Valley (Eugeneish area) and one thing that is critical is water run-off so you don't end up with a mucky mess coming in and out of the barn. We found that using the 2" x 8" x 16" pavers right outside the barn and around feed troughs keep the mud down that comes in to the stall and feeding areas. Also keeps hooves trimmed so you usually don't need a farrier. We also put the pavers around the water troughs. Beyond the pavers, gravel is good, and then the dirt. Just helps keep the mud from tracking in quite so much.

Another thing to consider is perhaps setting up a system so you can use water run-off off your roof. I have a gutter system that feeds in to our water trough and it really keeps the algea growth down with our sunny days/cool nights of fall or spring, and refreshes the water. It is great too when the weather is very cold because I can just disconnect all hoses and not worry about the water - it will be renewed every time it rains.

You are going to need an area to contain your animals for medical or care treatments. Anything from the rings in the wall and cross-tying system to a chute would work depending on how your animals like being contained. We have a crush for those animals that just are too wiggly to work on without gluing them in to one place and then some of our other animals just need us to use our body weight to lean them in to a wall and work on them. Some animals are fine once you catch them, but catching them can be a challenge. So have a place where you can get them in a small area before trying to catch them.

Do you have a plan for when you get new animals and they need separation from your current stock? You usually don't want to just put new animals in with your animals without giving them all a chance to get used to one another at least through a gate or fence.

Ventilation is really important to keep disease down. I would look at putting in more windows for cross ventilation. It may be already assumed, but I wouldn't put windows where animals could touch them. Sometimes things happen and animals jump up or get excited and a broken window and an animal isn't something that ends prettily.

I don't see a feed storage area listed above. Is the small feed/hay mow what you are thinking will keep all your feed? We use a 12' x 10' just for feed. All our feed pellets are stored in 33 gal. plastic garbage cans and they take up a lot of room. You don't want to be constantly running to the feed store, and can sometimes even get discounts by buying in bulk (tons etc), so think about how you will store bags of feed besides your bales of hay. It all takes up more room than you think it will. That goes for the tack area too.
Watch how you store feed bags in the WV area too. The moisture we get makes food moldy pretty fast. That's why we transfer the pellets to garbage cans. We put the cans on top of pallets to keep air flow all around the can. Plastic seems to work better than the galvanized cans - and surprisingly enough, mice have eaten through the bottom of one of my galvanized cans, but not through the plastic cans. I thought it would be the opposite.

Are you planning on having access for a truck or tractor in to your area? Our gates are wide enough to allow us to back right up to the feed area and that's a big help. We have a sliding door that we just roll back and then unload and reclose. You need to be able to get a dead animal out of the area too and once they are dead, they are very heavy. I guess a goat wouldn't be too hard to drag to where a truck or tractor could then access it, but any breed of miniature or full size cattle usually needs you to go to it with a tractor or truck.

Are you planning on doing any breeding with your animals? You will want separate quarters for birthing. And if you have a males of any species, usually when they are in breeding mode there is some fighting, so if you have more than one male, do you have separate pens to put them in for during that time - and not just with one fence between them?

Just some things to think about. You won't know how it all works until you are finished and have everything in place, but you are smart to ask for opinions and options. There are things about my barn area that I would change if I rebuilt - I think that goes for almost everyone.
Good luck!!
CindyOR

[Salem5]

Wow! This is great stuff. I appeciate all the thoughtfulness shown here. I have amended, added and axed based on this. Any more ideas? Keep it coming!

[brody]

I was thinking more about you in the outage

what a great opportunity to start fresh

make the lighting work for you - I like GOOD light (I have terrible eyesite) which is why I suggested more windows but if you can't do that for some reason make sure your lights are adequete for your needs .. even if you can do windows and you'll be in the barn in the dark much get lotsof light - have lots of outlets - it's amazing the things you'll find need to be plugged in depending on what you end up doing - kettles, hair driers, clippers, radios and normal farm stuff too
hot water is a blessing if possible .. (if not kettles work)
how far from the house is the barn? do you see the public using your barn? do you need a washroom and toilet? a fridge for meds and feed? even if you can't do it all now set aside space for the dream barn layout ..

[Wags]

Having at least two stalls is a good idea for them. Since having a space to separate sick or kidding animals is important.

12x12 is fine for a Dexter cow/calf pair. And would hold quite a few goats, but it depends on the type of goat.

Are you planning to milk the goats? If so, then you will want space for a milk stand for them.

More windows would be a good idea, if not at least plenty of lighting.

[Bearfootfarm]

What ventilation should we do beyond the 2 windows?

Gable fans in each end.
I'd also have a LARGE door in each end. It's hard to say for sure without knowing more about how you want it layed out as far as orientation to pastures, etc, and access around the building.

[farmgal]

unless you want to tote water in freezing temperatures, trench out a line for a frost free hydrant. Its easy, inexpensive and priceless. We did it in a few hours and a good hydrant (made in the usa(dont buy foriegn, keep yer nieghbor working)) only cost about 130$ and about 20$ for stone. Place it on an inside barn wall. get at least a 3 foot below ground type, just to be safe. You will be so grateful you did this come winter time. dont use pee size stones, they can get stuck in it.

Also think about grain/hay/grooming supply/medicine storage etc...

Make a room the pasture can be hooked to so the animals can get in away from flies in summer.

[DaleK]

Don't make any fixed stalls. Just put gate hinges on every wall post on one section of the wall and use gates to make adjustable stalls until you figure out what you need and what you like.

[cowbelle]

your cattle should not need a closed in stall - just a run in, though being able to close it off if you need to is helpful. Actually, the goats are the same - shelter is important, confinement is optional and more for you to be able to catch them. A gate across the opening is fine - rather than a closed in wall with door. That takes care of any ventilation concerns. I agree with farmgal that freeze-free water is very important. Having to carry boiling water from the house to melt enough for them to drink is a real drag. Be sure to set up the whole barn/pens so that you never have to carry feed through a pen to get to another one. Best is so that you can feed everything from the outside of their pens. If they have to put their heads through the fence to eat, (through an appropriate sized hole) you will save much feed from being walked on/laid on and therefore wasted.

[Salem5]

Thanks folks. Great stuff.

Thank you for confirming the water story as plumbers are there today. They are bringing in a few external hose bibs, one frost free external hydrant, and the piping for a future utility sink internally to which a waterless heater could be added.

The adjustable stalls idea is great. I think I understood the idea of using panels attached to the structural wall posts with optional gates across the front. To take that one further, what dimensions and what types of panels would you do for Dexters and goats?

Wags, Did I understand your point to be that the cow/calf could/would room together?

Thanks again

[firegirl969]

If you don't have the book, The Have-More Plan by the Robinson's find a copy online an look at their layout for their barn. It is really a good plan. Also, I will add to make sure you put your water at your barn to make it convenient to keep everything watered without it being time consuming. Also plan for a feed room that you can close off. I have read in the past of some people who get rid of some animals because they take so much time in caring for them. DH and I have a steer, a pig, 8 rabbits, and 3 pens with 30 chickens total, and we spend no more than 15 minutes a day feeding and watering. Everything is located very centrally and we do have large feeders and waters in all pens and an automatic waterer for the steer and he is on pasture. This greatly reduces your time in feeding and watering.

[raymilosh]

I suggest looking at these barn plans for ideas: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...devices9a.html

Look in the "When We Build" Section.

I also suggest having a way into your feed room that the animals cannot access, so you can get into and out of it in peace. Also any animal that has access to the door to the feed room will eventually get the door open and find the grain and eat too much and may die from it.

[Wags]

Well unless you want to bottle feed the calf, then yes your cow calf would be together at least for the first couple of weeks. After that if you want to milk share, the calf would need to be separated from mom (overnight or during the day, I find overnight easier) and then you only milk once a day until the calf is weaned.

I suppose if you timed it right you could use the same box stall for kidding and calving. 12x12 might be big enough for two adult dehorned Dexters - depending on how well they get along.

[Callieslamb]

I wish my barn had a lean-to on one side so I could feed hay to animals outside the barn from the hay mow. In summer, that would be a good area to get out of the sun and in the winter -out of the wind and cold. I would never have to walk outside to feed once I was in the barn.

I have cement floors - my calves slip and slid even in mid-summer with no water on the floor. If you do cement - scratch it up a bit or something.

What are you doing to do with the manure? Since you get to start from scratch - might as well plan that part of your farm to make it as easy as possible.

Welcome to the forum!

[farmgal]

no cement/concrete ever. bad idea all together,urine turns to ice in winter, have you ever had to stand all day at work on concrete floor. imagine living on it, bad for all the animals joints and I dont think rubber mats do much with a heavy animal. concrete is awful stalls with wood floors work nice.

[Salem5]

This continues to be great stuff. Thank you again!

Callieslamb asked a good one: what are we going to do with manure....I'll post an advice query separately on that one as I have no idea.

I keep reading conflicting things on flooring. What farmgal and Callieslamb say makes a llot of sense. Maybe I'll do a separate posting on that one too to see if I ccan try to get a better sense of why the divergent views.

This (ie you all) rock!

[brody]

I am always torn about flooring ..

I like concrete for a few reasons - it's easy to clean, and sanatize and not too expensive

I probably dislike concrete more than I like it though - for all the reasons above

one of the best comprise barns I ever worked in (my background is largely horse) had concrete floors (that had been lightly roughed up) in the aisles and packed dirt floors in stalls - which had mats over them

if you do concrete floors make sure the floor is on a slight grade to drain to one location

personally, only from a sanitation point of view, I would not use wood - wet wood holds bacteria and disease - it's a lovely comfortable floor though