Getting started!

[Narwhalin]

Today I found out my friend has a peice of property just outside of town...a small house, a detatched garage and a lean-to on a 5 acre wooded lot! I think I am going to jump on this, as the rent is reasonable for pretty much exactly what I want right now...

While I know we will have a large garden, I would also like to include some chickens and some small livestock. Any pointers for a complete novice on setting up for chickens and what small livestock would be good to try would be much appriciated...

BTW, the area is unfenced, so I am needing some advice on fencing as well.

[65284]

My advise on fencing is: don't spend any money building a permanent fence on property you don't own. Building good fencing is very costly and labor intensive and since you really don't have any idea how long you may be there you could throw away a lot of money.

[NCLee]

My 2-cents......

Use this winter to plan/decide on the livestock that'll work for your place at a minimum cost. As the prior poster noted, you don't want to spend money on something you can't keep if/when you have to move.

Depending on your location, if you get animals now, you'll have to feed them all winter with commecial feed, as I doubt that you'll have time to prep for them. Instead, use the time to study and learn all you can about the animals that you decide will work for you. Make preparations for them for the spring. For example, if you decide to keep chickens, learn what you need and prepare for it, so you'll be ready when your shipment of day old chicks arrive from the hatchery.

Spend the fall/winter working on other aspects of self-sufficiency. For example, go ahead and lay out your garden area. Get it tilled, if you don't have the equipment to do it yourself. If your climate permits, plant a fall garden. Start making compost. Fall is a good time to start collecting mulch and incorporating it into your garden. Or to plant a green cover crop to over winter and till in next spring.

If you don't already have them, use the winter to pick up canning, dehydrating, and vac sealing supplies and equipment. Learn to use them. For this you can purchase foods from farmer's markets or even your local grocery store. Next spring/summer when your garden is producing you'll already be well prepared to preserve them. Right now some places have canning supplies on sale to make way for fall/winter holiday merchandise displays.

Start collecting containers for your perenial herb garden. If you have to move, you can take them with you. If you have to move, the wrong time of year, it will be difficult to transplant them, if the owner of the land permits you to take them with you.

Use this time to design and setup your long term food/supplies storage plan. For example, prior to the holidays there are usually quite a few items that go on sale for holiday meals. If you already have your plans and lists, you can take advantage of those sales to save quite a few $$.

Sorry to get so long winded without giving you any specific answers to your questions. However, I hope some of this helps.

Lee

[partndn]

First - you sound happy, that's great! Hope you enjoy the new surroundings if you decide to go.

Second - sounds like GREAT advice from both responses. I too, would not spend money to make "improvements" on rental property.

Do your research as NCLee says, and then make more decisions towards spring time. You'll be quite busy just with the gardening! and harvesting! etc.

Are you by yourself? If so, that's another reason to take these things slowly and not get overwhelmed.
Good luck!

[Callieslamb]

If you really want good advice, you will give us some idea of your location. Do I need to share how to keep your chickens warm or cool?

If you are thinking 6 chickens and live in a warm climate - use a chicken tractor. You can move it around the place and keep them on good grass while they are protected from varmits.

Or..if you are thinking 20 chickens - use cattle panels to make them a pen - arch them up and over and cover with a tarp for shade. You might have to put some chicken wire along the bottom so they chickens can't squeeze out. Build a coop on skids so you can take it with you when you go. If you are warm enough, all you would need is the cattle panel pen. I like 10-15 sq ft per chicken outside and 4-6 inside. you will need less inside space if you are in a warm climate and they will be outside most of the time, verses a cold climate where they could be inside for days on end.

if you are thinking small animal as in goats - ask your buddy how many of those trees he wants destroyed before buying them.

check the poultry, rabbit and goat forums for more specific information.

[Danaus29]

For the fencing, if you wait before getting livestock you can spend the fall and winter searching for chain link fence. Chain link can be put up on t-posts and still be relatively easy to remove. (I just reconstructed a small duck pen, took me 2 days but I worked on it only a couple hours a day) Any animal housing should be build to be moveable.

Watch the sun/shade patterns. You just can't set garden anywhere. You need to be aware of the location of deep shade and tree roots. Container gardening might be best for the first season. Look for large containers and planters now while they are clearanced. Potting soil might be hard to find but some places still have seed and soil. You will want to fence any potential garden area if you plan to keep livestock. And fencing will keep leaves and mulch from blowing out of your garden. If you can get leaves from the yard or a nearby city you can use them to cover the potential garden area effectively suffocating any weeds. Makes spring weeding a whole lot easier.

Get some gardening and livestock books and spend a lot of time reading them. And start small. You will get burned out so fast if you start big.

[Michael W. Smith]

Have you seen the property? You might be getting way ahead of yourself if you haven't. You say it's wooded - is it all wooded, if so, you aren't going to have a garden growing because a garden needs full sunlight.

As for livestock, you need to research what you may want to find out if those animals will work in your situation. Some chickens and poultry would proably be good, but you will need a pen or coop that is varmint proof, otherwise every chicken eating creature near your wooded area will discover a chicken dinner is just a catch away.

You don't say how many are in your family, but if it's just you or a couple people, once you are moved fall and early winter are great times to buy chickens for cheap. They quit laying due to the decreased daylight (so people aren't getting eggs for their labor) and people get tired of going out and watering chickens when the water freezes in colder climates. Bear in mind a 2 year old chicken will probably start laying an egg almost every day once the light starts increasing. If you buy 6 chickens, you will quickly be overrun with eggs for a family of 1 or 2.

Take time this winter to research what you may want to do.

[Narwhalin]

Thank you all for your advice, and for "keeping it real!"

The property has a few places that are near the house without any trees around, so I feel I can put a garden in one of the spots...just need to look at how the sun moves around to be sure which one would be the best. Thanks for mentioning the roots, need to keep that in mind! As far as how many will be living there, it would be myself and one other roomate...

Chickens--wow 6 chickens would overrun me with eggs! I had no idea...I will be doing more research, as suggested...

Callieslamb, the location is Wichita, KS. We are around freezing in the winter generally, and summers are typically a slightly humid 85-90*. However, we can get below zero and upwards of 105* sometimes, too.

Goats--I think my friend would have liked a few goats when he started cleaning up the property! He told me there were so many trees that had grown up around the house that the back door wouldn't open!

I should mention I would have access to the property and full permission to put in anything I need to before I move in. So, I am planning on tilling the garden this fall for next spring. Considering how much shorter the days are now, is this a good time to pick a spot for the garden? Do you all think I should install fencing for the garden now?

[Danaus29]

Yes. this is a good time to pick a garden spot. The sun is in approximately the same position as it is in spring but with the trees being leafed out more than in spring you have a much better idea of how the shadows fall by watching it now.

Yes, fence the garden as soon as you pick out a spot. Like I mentioned before, with fencing in place you can pile leaves in the garden and not have to worry about the wind blowing them away.

[NCLee]

Another thought......

Check with the land owner to see if s/he will pay for the fencing if you provide the labor to put it up. After all you're making an improvement to the property that will increase it's value for the owner.

Lee

[ronbre]

well run to the store and see if there are still garden seeds available..and plan on putting in a fall garden right away..at least some greens..if nothing else.

a rental you never know when your hard work will be gone..if the house sells or if you have to move..and you may be stuck with trying to move farm animals too..and there might not be a rental that you can take them with you to..so keep that all in mind as well.

[Jan Doling]

You can start the fall garden in containers and move it with you. Meanwhile, prepare the spring in-ground garden using the lasagna method and it can be in process over the winter.

I would get 2 young, but grown hens. They could be easily kept in the garage when it's too cold out and in a chicken tractor when the weather is good. Next spring you could get a rooster if you want to enlarge your flock.

[ErinP]

Originally Posted by NCLee

Another thought......

Check with the land owner to see if s/he will pay for the fencing if you provide the labor to put it up. After all you're making an improvement to the property that will increase it's value for the owner.

Lee

That was my thought as well.
We've put in a lot of improvements over the years to the various company houses we've lived in. Improvements to the houses, barns, corrals, new fencing etc.
The boss/landlord has always been happy to pay for materials when we've done the labor.

[firegirl969]

Think about a couple of rabbits. You can build the hutches and most places will let you have them as "pets" do you could supply a great deal of your meat with 2 females and 1 male. They would be easy to move when you have to and the manure is some of the best for your garden spot.

[Narwhalin]

Thanks again, folks. This is really helping me...

My friend intends to sit on the land for about 10 years. Of course, as you all said, what would happen to me if he decided to change his mind? Perhaps I should have a back up plan...My Dad would probably help me out with space for the animals, but only until he gets hungry!

My plan would be to use this as my testing ground, and use the time to save up $$ for my own property. I am going to try to get him to promise the lease to me, so I can start working on the areas I want to garden, and just generally start putting things together out there. I am almost positive my buddy would pay for the supplies if I put forth the labor, so thanks for that great suggestion!

Rabbits-I am certainly interested in rabbits. I used to feed my dog raw, but switched because of the cost and hassle of getting the food, then splitting it up...then cleaning up the "murder scene" in the kitchen! I think it would be possible to go back to the raw diet if rabbits are as prolific as their reputation indicates, and I would eat some, as well.

[Narwhalin]

...pouring over a large stack of Mother Earth News, Countryside and Small Stock Journal, and Grit...

[PulpFaction]

Originally Posted by Narwhalin

...pouring over a large stack of Mother Earth News, Countryside and Small Stock Journal, and Grit...

MMmm. Favorites. Where'd you find those? I wish I had a big stack of 'em to read through right now!

[Narwhalin]

Originally Posted by PulpFaction

MMmm. Favorites. Where'd you find those? I wish I had a big stack of 'em to read through right now!

Moms are a wonderful thing!

[PulpFaction]

Sooo has the room mate position been filled? LOL B'cause I don't think I'm going to be able to get my finances in order to buy, but I'm tired of being a nomad.

Haha, Urban Homesteading's no challenge at all compared to Homeless Homesteading!!! (Ok, I'm not homeless. I have a trailer.)

[Narwhalin]

The position is not filled yet, but I already have someone in mind...I just called my friend and told him I would like to rent the place. He sounded positive about all the different ideas I had so far...

Can't wait to get all this started!