Unexpected Covenants

[PulpFaction]

Just got off the phone with a guy about a really promising 12 acre parcel in a wonderful location for me. Everything was sounding so good (willing to owner finance, close proximity to utilities, plenty of cleared land nearly 2 acre spring-fed pond, et cetera,) and then under his breath near the end of the conversation he mentions that this is technically two lots in a "Neighborhood" and the neighborhood has covenants.

Well, the covenant about having only one house per 5 acres sounds ok to me. However, he kept going. Minimum 1800 sq foot house!!! For little ole' me! My out buildings have to match my house! I can have no more than 2 large animals per acre (which is ok, I guess...I don't want a feed bill that big!) and "all animals have to have appropriate buildings". To illustrate the point he said you would have to build a barn or shed (that matched the house) before turning goats out in the woods, or something...

Now, the thing is that with the exception of the 1800 sf house (I didn't even bother to ask about the possibility of just parking my Airstream out there and hanging tight for a few years,) nothing sounds like a total deal breaker, and if I didn't know they existed, I probably wouldn't break them anyway.....but what a let down!

Keep in mind this is in the middle of NOWHERE in central Mississippi. Probably the LAST place on earth I would expect to have to worry about whether or not my house matched my goat barn!

When are developers going to realize that they aren't actually making their lots more appealing by putting all these restrictions on them?

Just venting....

[sammyd]

But they are making them more appealling. Just to a different set of folks.
These folks want perfect cookie cutter houses, in a nice neighborhood that will allow their investment to grow in value. That's about all they're interested in.
Also I have heard of more than 1 farmer who decided to sell off land that decided to use covenants after neighbors sold land only to have it overrun with trashy homes, trailers, and basically junk and being resold into the smallest lots allowed by the township.

[glazed]

Here's my crazy i'dear.

Build a 25x25 building ... wooden frame, pier and beam, earthen plaster exterior/interior, living roof ... (alternative/cheap/natural/simple) ... 625 sq feet ... this building could be your main room to house bathroom/laundry/kitchen/den.

Off of that building, have a 25x25 sheet metal covered/screened-in rock patio for an outdoor dining/kitchen/living space ... another 625 sq feet space.

Build another 25x25 building to connect to the covered screen patio ... wooden frame, pier and beam, earthen plaster exterior/interior, living roof ... (alternative/cheap/natural/simple) ... another 625 sq feet ... and this could be your building to house a couple of bedrooms and an office or extra storage or whatever else.

What you have is a standard dog-trot style home with three livable 25x25 sections ... to make one long rectangle, ranch-style home ... and it is 1875 sq feet total.

Your outbuildings can be made the same way ... or out of cob or cordwood for a unifying look from the street.

I know it sounds crazy, but I AM crazy ... for THIS is EXACTLY what we are going to do.

[Cassie]

I learned to hate covenants while living in AZ and understand the need to vent. We got a letter from the stinkin' HOA once because we had weeds 3 inches high. No, not a yard full, just a few! I forgot and left the trash container out ONE night and got a letter. I hate them. They are meant to protect a neighborhood from going to pot, but it seems there's no middle ground. They're either anal or too permissive...haven't decided which is worse. If only I were rich, I'd own at least 100 acres too far out for restrictions and build my house in the middle, then it wouldn't be an issue.

[glazed]

Originally Posted by Cassie

If only I were rich, I'd own at least 100 acres too far out for restrictions and build my house in the middle, then it wouldn't be an issue.

This is also EXACTLY what we are going to do! 80 acres out in the literal middle of nowhere ... 26 miles from the closest, legitimate grocery store ... and build right smack dab in the middle of the property surrounded by trees and, then pastures.

But we are FAR from rich ... well, in the monetary sense.

[PulpFaction]

Hmm, I like the way you guys think....

How about I just plop a house boat down on the pond and call it quits?

Is this kind of situation where the non-permanent structure (IE; shed) comes into play?

[glazed]

If it were just me, I'd love float aimlessly all over the country to visit lakes, and live on a houseboat!

[haypoint]

My Aunt passed up buying a place in Scottsdale because the HOA controlled what color you could paint your house. She bought in an area with a less controlling HOA. A couple months later, the neighbor across the street painted his house some awful color. Now she wishes there was some sort of standard preventing oddball color choices.

To those in Podunk, such concerns seem unreasonable. But those with a 300,000 dollar investment in a home on a 10,000 square foot lot, see how easy a minor eyesore can chop into the value of your home.

If some knucklehead builds a fence out of slab wood and causes the value of my house to slip, I guess I'd get real serious.

In my community, the Planing Board created a Land Use Plan. The residents wanted to limit tar paper shacks and older small mobile homes. They created zoning restrictions that require 800 square feet on the first floor as a way to prohibit cabins.

To get around that, people haul in a camper trailer and use it like a cabin. Often they look worse than a tar paper cabin. Others just build the garage and never get around to building the house.

There is no sense buying property that has restrictions that don't fit your plans. No future moving to an area where it is clear the neighbors have greater aspirations.

[Wisconsin Ann]

When we were looking for land to build on, we found a great place...40 acres, rolling gentle hills. Former pasture for a farm. The farmer(yah right) was selling this section..there were 5 40ish acres pieces. Electric already there. Okay...it's in our pricerange...it's really pretty, big trees dotted around...looking good.

THEN we found out there were a series of conditions....like your covenants (don't remember if they called it that, but it was in the deed) House size requirement, dogs okay, cats okay, any other animals had to be approved by "the association". er...WHAT association? "the other home owners here". uh oh....

Barn has to match the house, but can be no bigger then the house. Nothing left outside...everything must have it's own shed/barn. Then the kicker...the lawn must be mowed to approved length. ummm....we're in the middle of a PASTURE!...."the lawn" was considered the 5 acres around the house you build.


WAY out in the middle of nowhere. Nothing but farms for miles. ah well.

I drove by the area last summer (2 years after we looked at it)...still no houses built there. Cows grazing.

[Tricky Grama]

Be veryvery careful. Personally, IMHO, HOAs are evil. Just b/c it gives a few people power that they sometimes can't handle.
We have 20 ac on the edge of a very small town. Was farmland & the original owners didn't want it to become junky, I guess. The ony restrictions are NO salvage yards, no hog farms, no un-foundation mobile homes...I can't remember what that's called but you can't put up a junky mobile to live in. I think there's a minimum of 1200 sq ft for a living structure.
However, these people are all dead & gone...have no clue who would enforce allthis. However it doesn't sound too oppresive & the area is very pretty b/c of it.

Patty

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by sammyd

But they are making them more appealling. Just to a different set of folks.
These folks want perfect cookie cutter houses, in a nice neighborhood that will allow their investment to grow in value. That's about all they're interested in.
Also I have heard of more than 1 farmer who decided to sell off land that decided to use covenants after neighbors sold land only to have it overrun with trashy homes, trailers, and basically junk and being resold into the smallest lots allowed by the township.

Exactly.

Numer 168,312 on TurnerHill's list of immutable facts of the universe: More people care about their property values than care about goat housing.

[pinemead]

I managed HOA's and condos for 26 years. There are good points and bad points. The bottom line is that I wouldn't live in one. Think carefully.

[geo in mi]

Note to self: Self, ask about deed restrictions, easements, and covenants. Self, ask for a copy of the sales agreement and deed, before putting down any earnest money. Self, arrange for a title search before signing anything. Self, get the land surveyed and staked before moving in. Self, drive for at least two miles in all directions to check for toxic waste dumps, city sewage disposal facilities, 6,000 cow milking operations, chicken factories, or possible land clearing for a new Mercedes-Benz factory. Self, check the Sex Offenders registry for the neighborhood. Self, check for previous meth operations in the vicinity--especially next door. Self, ask to fill a water bottle of the 'spring fed' pond for private testing. Self, arrange an appointment to walk the land and inspect it.

It's called 'due diligence'.

[ihedrick]

I'd run far away! I would never pay money and then have someone else tell me what I can do with my own property.

[Jenn]

Can you build your 1825 sqft home with the barn as part of it?

[Macybaby]

Also keep in mind that a lot of times if there is covenents or an HOA, someone is "elected" to deal with the stuff, and then at some point this someone wants money, and before you know it you are paying a set amount each month to that person so they can do the job.

Cathy

[TurnerHill]

Where did you all get the idea that covenents=HOA?

[PrincessFerf]

What a bummer! This is exactly why we will NEVER live in a subdivision or other neighborhood that wants to "control" what we can do on our property.

Its one thing to work within the rules of the town/city and state you live in. But to have some "fancy nancy" group of homeowners trying to push their "fancy nancy" garbage on me... NO WAY.

I'm not going to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on property only to have someone tell me what color I can paint my house, or how many trees I need to have, what kinds of animals I can have or whether or not I can have a trailer/boat/camper parked on my property.

Don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY understand the desire to keep a tidy property, but IMO these associations go WAY overboard.

[simplyflow]

Originally Posted by ihedrick

I'd run far away! I would never pay money and then have someone else tell me what I can do with my own property.

I could not agree more.

[Harry Chickpea]

Any deed restriction is a deal-breaker for me. A big farm near us was broken up and sold at auction last year. The place is twenty miles from the nearest city, yet the land was being sold with restrictions on it, including no manufactured homes, minimum home size, setbacks, animals etc.. This was agricultural land and bought as agricultural land. All I can think is that the auction company got to the heirs and pushed their standard clauses.

What makes restrictions worse is that about the only way they can ever be lifted is by eminent domain from some governmental body. What if in a hundred years there is a total shift and homes of 1800 ft2 or more are totally impractical to build because of taxes or energy issues? Sorry, that deed restriction stands. The dead should never be allowed to restrict the living. They had their chance while they were alive.