Propane Heaters

[Fae]

I have a wood-burning heater that I really like but would like to get one that is propane. It is just to hot in here when we try to have a fire and I have to open doors and windows. Since DH had his accident at work and permanently messed up his right shoulder last september I really don't see him being able to get firewood but, the main reason for changing is because it just doesn't get cold enough for a fire but maybe a couple days in winter. We have central heat so we just need to be able to supplement that when needed or in case of power outage. Do any of you know of any propane heaters that look like wood burning heaters? If I don't find something I am thinking of having this flue taken out and have a fireplace put in.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Fae

I have a wood-burning heater that I really like but would like to get one that is propane. It is just to hot in here when we try to have a fire and I have to open doors and windows. Since DH had his accident at work and permanently messed up his right shoulder last september I really don't see him being able to get firewood but, the main reason for changing is because it just doesn't get cold enough for a fire but maybe a couple days in winter. We have central heat so we just need to be able to supplement that when needed or in case of power outage. Do any of you know of any propane heaters that look like wood burning heaters? If I don't find something I am thinking of having this flue taken out and have a fireplace put in.

I would keep the wood stove for security. Add an unvented propane wall heater for emergency heat. They're only about $150 at eBay. Here's mine (20,000 btu/hour, thermostatically controlled).

PS - Be sure to use a CO detector. You can find them at Walmart.

[NCLee]

I second leaving the stove in place and getting one of those ventless heaters. I have a fireplace and wish I had a wood stove in my den. The woodstove that I have in my shop is so much better than the fireplace in terms of heat. When I open the damper and start a fire in the fireplace it pulls any residual heat out of the adjacent rooms and sends it up the flue. I don't have doors between the kitchen, den, living, and dinning rooms. All those rooms feel colder after I put a fire in the fireplace.

IMHO, there won't be any difference in your wood requirements between the stove and fireplace. If anything, the fireplace will take more because you can't control the heat the way you can with a stove with a damper.

Just my 2-cents this hot afternoon.
Lee

[mldollins]

Can these be hooked up to a 20 pound tank or are there special fittings that need to be purchased?

thanks

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by mldollins

Can these be hooked up to a 20 pound tank or are there special fittings that need to be purchased?

thanks

20# tanks work fine, but you'll need a propane regulator for your propane tanks. An RV supply store can fix you up with a regulator and connection hoses for the tanks, or you can order them from eBay. Finally, you'll need to run black iron pipe into the house from the regulator to the furnace.

[mldollins]

I was going to use it as free standing and hook a 12 foot hose up to it with a regulator.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by mldollins

I was going to use it as free standing and hook a 12 foot hose up to it with a regulator.

I've never seen it done that way, but I suppose that if it's not going to be inspected you can do just about anything.

[willow_girl]

I second leaving the stove in place and getting one of those ventless heaters.

I'll third that!

That's the set-up I had in my last house, and it worked out great.

I could heat the whole house with the ventless ... wouldn't keep it exactly toasty, but good enough to keep the pipes from freezing if we wanted to go away for a couple days.

Also if we were away for a day and the fire went out, it was nice to come home and just crank up the propane.

[Alice In TX/MO]

DO NOT GET UNVENTED! Even the guy who installs them will tell you they are polluting the house and adding moisture that increases mold.

VENTED is the only way to go.

http://www.advancedenergy.org/buildi...s_heaters.html

http://www.alsheating.com/WhyVented.htm

[Alice In TX/MO]

Scroll down to number 3.

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/i...ers/infco.html

Cancer dangers:
http://www.epinions.com/content_5004370052

Other dangers:
http://searchwarp.com/swa421497.htm

[cathryn]

Just a thought about burning wood.

I don't know what you are burning and what is available in your area, but maybe it would still work if you used wood with less btu's and just made small fires at certain times during the day. The type of wood you use can make a huge difference in the amount of heat you get off of your fire. Here is a website that has a chart to give you an idea http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclo...value_BTU.html
If you get some fire bricks or pellets it can make it very easy to start a fire.

We have a very small house with a fireplace insert. We heat only with wood. I use mostly ash and maple for our fires because they put out less btu's (heat units) than a lot of the wood usually used around here such as oak, and hickory. It is also much lighter to carry. I have some oak for when it is really cold.

I understand why you would want a different heating system where you live. I just thought I would run this by you to think about before you go out an buy something new.

Peace-cathryn

[Fae]

Thanks everyone. If I put in a fire place I would put propane logs in it probably. We use oak in the heater. It is a consolidated dutchwest with the catylist. Darn thing will run you out with even a small fire. It doesn't help that I am hot natured(could be all the insulation I have). I can't figure out where I could put the heater in the picture you show though, Nevada. I have a small house(1000sq.ft.) and there is not a good place to put it. If I ever learn how to use photo bucket I am going to post pictures of my house. I already have a smoke/carbon monoxide detector because I have gas stove, water heater and heating unit. In case of an outage I can use my stove. If We decide to keep it I will try using different wood.

[PulpFaction]

No, you should definitely get rid of your wood stove.

In fact, I'll take it off your hands for you so you don't have to worry about it.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Fae

I can't figure out where I could put the heater in the picture you show though, Nevada. I have a small house(1000sq.ft.) and there is not a good place to put it. If I ever learn how to use photo bucket I am going to post pictures of my house.

Quite frankly, if you don't have space for a 24" wide wall heater I don't know what you might have room for. Heck, my cabin is only abut 500 sq ft.

[Fae]

It isn't that there is no space it would fit on a wall but that it wouldn't look good or fit in anywhere. I don't know how exactly to explain it but with furniture and everything there is no good place to put it and I do have the gas stove in the same area the heater would have to go. What I was trying to find is a gas heater that looks like a wood burning heater. I found cast iron ones but was trying to find something not so heavy.

[Harry Chickpea]

Alice - you are over-reacting. First, carbon monoxide does not come from a properly functioning ventless heater. If this is a concern, there are carbon monoxide detectors that are inexpensive and readily available. We have one that even has a read-out for sub-dangerous levels of gas and CO. Second, that Epinion article that you cite has a huge amount of hogwash content. Lead is not in propane. Sorry, that just isn't the case, and if it was, any lead compound would be dense enough that it would settle to the bottom of a tank. Third, another article you cite on carbon monoxide totally points out the error of your thinking. The VENTED furnace in it that was NOT DESIGNED to burn as an unvented heater was the source of the CO. If that house had contained an UNVENTED heater, the CO would not have been an issue.

One cite you gave states that a vented heater is 93% efficient. That may be so, but by introducing cold air for combustion and exhausting gasses that are even a few degrees above room temperature the actual efficiency drops tremendously. Product manufacturers know how to put their products in the best possible light, while dismissing their competition as dangerous and poor quality.

Moisture in the air in the winter is a plus in most houses that are not hermetically sealed. The relative humidity does not usually even approach the 50% mark, due to dry make-up air coming in from the outside and natural breathing of the house. A little humidity will sometimes condense on cold window panes, but the damage from mold is limited to the mullion strips and sash of the window, and only then if those areas have not been properly painted or are not made of vinyl or metal.

I will say that there is one type of unvented burning that is extremely common in homes that is documented to be hundreds of times more dangerous than a properly installed and functioning propane wall heater. This source of heat has in the past added lead to the air, added complex carbon compounds to the air, left toxic deposits on walls and ceilings, introduced small particulate matter and VOCs that are dangerous to people with lung health issues, and caused countless fires and deaths. It is the one time of burning that I refuse to allow in our house for more than an extremely limited time, and only when I am personally in the room and awake to insure that it is safe. If there are rambunctious kids or animals, I douse the flame. I am, of course, referring to candles. If you light one, especially the scented type, and especially old ones that might still have a leaded wick, you are taking your life in your hands. I have seen houses burn. I have a HUGE respect for fire, and I'm far more scared of candles than a fully loaded stove or fireplace. They are small, convenient, and utterly filthy polluters of indoor air. Unfortunately, most women love them.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

Alice - you are over-reacting.

We've been down this same road a dozen times. There are some around here who fight the idea of ventless heaters with so much passion that it's pointless to argue.

The last time I went through this I took the time to present detailed information about the products of combustion and their safety, but the reply was "Don't you understand? You're living in a chimney!" As I said, it's pointless to argue.

[Harry Chickpea]

OK. Maybe we can just settle for getting the ones who hate ventless to destroy all their candles in an ecologically sound fashion. (NOT burning them)

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i have to agree that if burning lp open was that big of an issue my stove in the kithcen would be a problem

the amish grocery up the road uses the vent less heater shown in that picture

if you are going to hook it up with a hose to a 20 lb tank for a suplemental heat i and wanted to put it on a stand i would make a 2x4 stand that sets over the wood stove maybe with a safty wire so it is sure to not get nocked over make sure you have good propain connections test under preassuer with a gas leak bubble solution but other wise i don't see a problem.

as for additonal moisture in the house , where can i sign up for that mid nov - mid april we can run humidifiers with a 6 galon a day output and still have no humidity


and my final retorical question , really they have heaters in southen alabama i didn't think you would hardly need it so much for global warming they need heaters in the deep south it is getting so bad

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

OK. Maybe we can just settle for getting the ones who hate ventless to destroy all their candles in an ecologically sound fashion. (NOT burning them)

The thing is that when I was a firefighter I used to hear negative information about ventless heaters like that. It was just general information, like a prevention officer saying it wasn't worth the risk. I didn't think a lot about it at the time, but years later I found myself pondering the question.

I was a firefighter as a side hobby. My primary occupation was as a refinery engineer for a major oil company, which I have a 4 year degree background for. That education and experience qualifies me to predict the products of combustion and form an opinion of the health risks those products might pose. I've found no scientific evidence that refutes the contention that a ventless propane heater can be operated safely.

So when I hear someone say that their gas man told them that ventless heaters are unsafe, I have to consider that a man who has been trained (not educated) in installing & maintaining gas appliances, turning gas service on & off, and lighting pilots probably has no first-hand authoritative information about propane combustion components, or how safe they might be. He's most likely just repeating information that he heard along the way.

So if anyone here asks if I think I know more about it than a gas man knows, my answer has to be that yes I do think I know more about it. I'm not being arrogant about it, I'm just recognizing that a chemical engineer probably knows a lot more about combustion gasses than a gas appliance installer typically knows.