Bowed walls and wall anchors, anyone BTDT?

[WildernesFamily]

If you've dealt with bowed basement walls (specifically concrete block) and had to have it fixed, could you share your experiences and give us and idea on what it cost to have it done?

Also, if you had drainage issues that needed addressed, what did you do to remedy that?

Gotta love those old farmhouses!

[T-Bone 369]

We have done these jobs several times. It's a PITA and it's not going to be cheap.

Typically we select one wall to work on at a time - usually start with the worst. We start by building a temporary support wall behind the wall to come out and just start to take the weight off the foundation wall. Then the foundation wall down to however low it has to come (the goal is to get into solid work so sometimes it's a couple feet sometimes it's all the way). As you tear down you have to continualy remove the overburden from behind the wall or else you end up with it caving in. When you get ready to start back up we like to try to get some rebar into the footer in every other cavity then fill up the block cavities with concrete letting the rebar extend about a foot above the existing work (too far above and it's hard to lay the block over, too short you do not get enough overlap with the next piece of rebar to hold well). Build up a few courses and repeat the rebar/concrete but not letting the rebar stick up in the last course and not filling it all the way up with crete. As you can tell where the filled cavities are you can cut out a small chunk of the sill plate in that place so that when the last block is laid you can finish filling the work - save the cut out peice. You have to make sure you are measuring constantly from the sill to the work to avoid getting your height off - too short is not as bad as too tall - because that last course is a real bundle of joy. There are two ways of laying the last course. Usually we use two men (one inside and one outside) and spread just enough mortar on the bed (bottom) joint to hold it up tight to the sill. Holding the block tight to the sill plate infront of the spread mortar you gently slide it into position holding up until the mortar has had enough time to support it. However, for one reason or another you can not always do that so sometimes you have to set the block in dry (no mortar) then use temporary shims to raise it the the sill and tuck point the bed joint in underneath. Once the block is self supporting the wedges are removed and the holes tuck pointed. Once the blockwork has cured the temp wall can come out and you use the holes you earlier cut in the sill plate to finish the rebar and cement filling and add a long anchor bolt to re-secure the plate to the wall (they should stick up atleast 3 1/2" above the top of the blockwork. Take the cut out peice you saved and drill it out to to fit over the bolt then cut a block from a 2x6 that will snugly fit between the floor joists or if you are working on a wall parallel to the joists as long as convienent to work with. Again drill it to go over the anchor bolt then apply a good adheisive (PL400 or something similar) slip it into place, use screws to secure it and then put the nut and washer onto the anchor bolt. On the outside we usually try to get some type of waterproofing material on the wall then figure a way to keep water from sitting against the foundation (tile and rock then backfill and reshape the grade to run water away from the wall). We also chack the gutters as if they are overflowing it does not help. Then a little grass seed and on to the next wall. Like I said - its pretty hard work and is not going to be cheap. Right now I figure $1.90 labor/block on a regular wall - last re-lay I did on a basement I think I figured $6.00/block just because of all the difficulty. That is labor only, material is on top of that. But it will solve your problem. Best of luck.

[MN Gardener]

You definitely need to have a very good professional do the work. I would get more then one estimate / opinion. How old is the house. If it is an old farmhouse then the basement was probably added at a later day. Usually older farmhouses have stone basements.

[WildernesFamily]

Thanks so much T-Bone 369 for your detailed explanation, I appreciate that!

MN Gardener, yes this is not something we'd tackle on our own.

The house is about 85 years old... I don't know if the basement is original to the house. Really, looking at the house you would never guess it was such an old house, it looks newer. The bowing is not terrible, but it is definitely starting to happen. Perhaps that does point to a newer basement. A french drain needs to be installed to direct water away from the house.

We were thinking of something like this:

http://www.foundationrecoverysystems...ll_anchors.php

and hoped that perhaps someone on here had some experience with the installation, cost and long term success of such a system.

There is another one that has a similar installation, but the part that goes into the earth looks different, and outside around the basement is excavated and drainage issues addressed, but I can't remember the name of the system. It was apparently better than the wall anchor plates.

Found it - Helical wall anchors (tie backs)

YouTube

[Natural Beauty Farm]

I've used both systems. You are right the first does not take care of drainage and just sets your self up for failure after the warranted period is out. I also found that the first system "moves" in the ground too much every time it rains. It was the cheaper and faster way so that's what the boss wanted. They charge per plate, I don't remember the exact cost, but I do remember we had to get a lot of them and we talked the company into reducing the price almost in half. We had a bad storm/flood and I ended up pulling the bolts almost 8" into the house once it dried to get the walls straight again and torqued.

The second way took longer, a week, but the company did a great job and I never had to do much with the walls, but check the pressure for the next 5 years. ....Left job, so I can only assume its still holding. The price was about 2x that of above though. They charged per plate plus excavation.

These were both major fixes though. ie three walls crumbling in. If you only have minor problems you might be OK with the first company, if you can rework some drainage from the outside. Bigger gutters, more downspouts, getting the water further away from the house, etc... Even a foot can make a big difference in how the water flows away from the house or into a basement.

[NWMO]

for the anchor system you mentioned in the earlier post. My parents' basements needs some major work.....if I remember correctly, they would put the anchors in, spaced about 8 feet apart......and were going to charge 550.00 per anchor (close estimate, don't have the paper work in front of me).
I too am questioning how well this system works and am anxious to hear from others. This bid was from a company out of Nebraska, called Thrasher Basement Systems. cost of doing 3 walls in the basement and some outside anchoring of a "retaining wall" was going to run just under 9,000 or so.

[WildernesFamily]

Thank you so much Natural Beauty Farm and NWMO, that's a big help! I'm glad to know that the second system is better, and also to be able to get a very rough ballpark figure to get this done.

Thanks!

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by WildernesFamily

Thank you so much Natural Beauty Farm and NWMO, that's a big help! I'm glad to know that the second system is better, and also to be able to get a very rough ballpark figure to get this done.

Thanks!

IMO, even with the second system, you are still simply repairing a damaged basement wall.

If they have to go to the trouble and expense of excavating the outside wall, why not just spend the extra money and have a new block or poured wall set?

That way you know it will be done right and probably never have to be touched again.

Good luck!

[WildernesFamily]

Originally Posted by plowjockey

IMO, even with the second system, you are still simply repairing a damaged basement wall.

If they have to go to the trouble and expense of excavating the outside wall, why not just spend the extra money and have a new block or poured wall set?

That way you know it will be done right and probably never have to be touched again.

Good luck!

Plowjockey, we have thought about that, we're just exploring options at this point. This is for a house we are currently under contract on. We just got the inspection report back recently and are trying to take the cost of that repair into consideration. The wall anchor people will not give a free quote until you are actually the owner of the house, which is understandable.

We have also wondered about just getting a new slab foundation poured and moving the house onto that, but I don't know how that would compare price wise, and I like the idea of having a basement.

Thanks

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by WildernesFamily

Plowjockey, we have thought about that, we're just exploring options at this point. This is for a house we are currently under contract on. We just got the inspection report back recently and are trying to take the cost of that repair into consideration. The wall anchor people will not give a free quote until you are actually the owner of the house, which is understandable.

We have also wondered about just getting a new slab foundation poured and moving the house onto that, but I don't know how that would compare price wise, and I like the idea of having a basement.

Thanks

Understood. My concern would be that a buckled wall, was either incorrectly built or incorrectly backfilled. Maybe both.

Basements can be quite useful, with extra space and ease of working on electrcal and pipes.

It would seem to be quite expensive to move the house to a slab, compared to rebuilding basement walls. Most of our basement walls have been rebuilt (by previous owners), at least partially, in our 135 year old farmhouse.

Good luck.

[baldylocks]

I am right now in the process of having helical piers installed in my house. It's not your exact problem but in the same "family" of repairs. We also had drainage issues so we are including that in our project. They are installing 6 piers and a french drain around 50% of my house. Our cost is $12850 for everything...all materials, labor, grading, reseeding, etc. Of course, I do not have a long term perspective on my house, but my in-laws live 1/4 mile away and had the same done 10 years ago and it solved their "moving house" problems. They did not have drainage problems. Anyhow, if you want to see pics of the work on my house, go to my blog and search for househttp://www.myhomeamongthehills.com
Right now, that stuff will show up at the top of the search results. I have posted a lot of pics and will continue as they finish the project...soon I hope.

[WildernesFamily]

Originally Posted by baldylocks

I am right now in the process of having helical piers installed in my house. It's not your exact problem but in the same "family" of repairs. We also had drainage issues so we are including that in our project. They are installing 6 piers and a french drain around 50% of my house. Our cost is $12850 for everything...all materials, labor, grading, reseeding, etc. Of course, I do not have a long term perspective on my house, but my in-laws live 1/4 mile away and had the same done 10 years ago and it solved their "moving house" problems. They did not have drainage problems. Anyhow, if you want to see pics of the work on my house, go to my blog and search for househttp://www.myhomeamongthehills.com
Right now, that stuff will show up at the top of the search results. I have posted a lot of pics and will continue as they finish the project...soon I hope.

Thanks so much for the info and the link baldylocks, very interesting!