Pond Question

[deaconjim]

We have a small pond on our new place, and tonight while walking the dogs, we heard the sound of water running into the overflow pipe, and the ground around the discharge side of it is very wet.

The pond was built shortly after WWII, and it has a 6" cast iron overflow pipe that is currently about a foot above water level. From what I can see from the bank, the pipe is pretty rusty. To my knowledge, there is cutoff on the pipe.

I am concerned that the pipe is going to break and drain my pond. Having absolutely no experience with maintaining a pond, my list of solutions is pretty slim. I'm hoping I can get some ideas from some of you.

My initial idea was to try to plug the pipe with concrete, and hope we don't need an overflow pipe anytime soon. Rose suggested trying to insert a PVC pipe inside the existing pipe, and I thought about pouring concrete around that. That however, still leaves us with the possibility of the pipe breaking at the bottom.

Any suggestions?

[mtman]

we have 3 ponds on our farm im not understanding what you are saying if it is 1 foot from water level how can it drain your pond , every pond should have a spillway of some sort so not to break down the bank

[deaconjim]

Originally Posted by mtman

we have 3 ponds on our farm im not understanding what you are saying if it is 1 foot from water level how can it drain your pond , every pond should have a spillway of some sort so not to break down the bank

There is no spillway. The pond is spring fed, and I assume the natural leakage keeps it from spilling over most of the time. The overflow pipe is a 6" vertical pipe that makes a 90 at the bottom, and exits through the dam. I've never seen the water level high enough to spill over, but now the pipe has rusted enough that we do have some flow. My concern is that the pipe will continue to rust away, and at some point it may break off completely, draining the pond.

[quietstar]

Jim..I have no knowledge or understanding of your overflow problem, but I do believe there is a BIG BASS lurking there. I hope you ebjoy that nice new place...Glen

[EDDIE BUCK]

Not much help from me,but could you block the end the water is coming out of at least till you decide how to fix the pipe.It would keep it from going dry,but when it rains you may have to let some out.Thats about all I know until you figure out the permanent solution. Eb. Thought of something else.Can you get to the pipe and look down with a flashlight and see where the water is running in.If so and its on the upright part,get a rubber connection sleeve with clamps on each end that will slide down the outside and center at the leak,tighten the clamp above and below might do it.Afterall, everybody likes swimming RIGHT?lol

[MELOC]

have you ever been in the pond to check out the pipe? maybe it has a "t" on the bottom with a valve or another small outlet. perhaps someone put a hole in the pipe at a certain level to allow the pond to drain slow unless the overflow was needed. it's hard to imagine a pond being that old, draining through the ground only and still being intact. i am sure it is possible, but i would double check to see if there is some other way the pipe is taking in water. we have a spring-fed water supply with 3 inch steel pipe that was installed perhaps 80 years or so...give or take a decade. it has a few weak spots where the pipe runs from the intake, through the stream and into the bank, but in every other spot i have seen, the pipe was still fairly decent. i had to cut it short one year when the spring dropped level and i had to pull from the stream. it was difficult to cut the thick pipe. i guess i'm trying to say that overflow pipe may still be in good shape.

[uncle Will in In.]

The reason to run the pipe down then turn and go through the bottom of the dam, is to make it possible to drain the pond. Otherwise a culvert straight out through the dam would have been sufficient. I would try to get a light and look into the pipe from both ends. That could give you a better idea what they set up to start with. It's very likely there was some way to open the pipe at the bottom of the pond. If all else fails you could get a backhoe to put in an overflow pipe straight through the top of the dam, and pour the old pipe full of concrete. OR drain the pond and clean out the slop in the bottom of the pond. You would want to screen out the fish if you drain it. <>UNK

[tamsam]

I didn't see a ---- but sure there is one. If so dig a trench at on end and fill with 6 inch rock so the water can flow out if needed and then you can cement the pipe or close the outlet at the exit of it. Guy here had a big pond and when we had an almost flood last year the drain pipe couldn't keep up with the water coming in. Several of the fire depts had to take pumps and pump water out so it wouldn't overflow. Had it breached the ---- several homes were in dander of being flooded had it broken. It now has a drain ditch. Hope you get it figured out. Sam

[ronbre]

put a pipe inside that is just 1/4 inch smaller than the pipe that is there..and fill the rest with either fast setting concrete or spray foam..the expanding kind..(easier to get in than the concrete) ..if the old pipe rusts away the concrete or foam will still be around the new pipe..

[fishhead]

It sounds like the pipe has rusted through and the water is entering the pipe somewhere in the dike. That's not the most serious issue though.

I would be more concerned that the ground is wet around the discharge. That may mean that water has found a channel to exit the pond around the outside of the pipe. If that's the case you run the risk of the channel eroding until it gets large enough to drain your pond and possibly taking the dike with it.

If it were mine I would be checking it daily and if the flow around the pipe (not inside) increases I would seriously consider draining the pond and repairing the pipe. Check to see if you can see any current coming out of the ground. That's a bad sign. Maybe even dig around the pipe a little to get a better look. I would also put a well designed spillway to handle unexpected heavy rainfalls.

[Natural Beauty Farm]

Give me a call and I'll stop by this weekend and take a look if you want. I'm picking up a colt in Christiansburg, so my schedule is open. I fixed many a pond at work in NC.

[deaconjim]

Originally Posted by fishhead

It sounds like the pipe has rusted through and the water is entering the pipe somewhere in the dike. That's not the most serious issue though.

I would be more concerned that the ground is wet around the discharge. That may mean that water has found a channel to exit the pond around the outside of the pipe. If that's the case you run the risk of the channel eroding until it gets large enough to drain your pond and possibly taking the dike with it.

If it were mine I would be checking it daily and if the flow around the pipe (not inside) increases I would seriously consider draining the pond and repairing the pipe. Check to see if you can see any current coming out of the ground. That's a bad sign. Maybe even dig around the pipe a little to get a better look. I would also put a well designed spillway to handle unexpected heavy rainfalls.

The ground is wet due to water coming through the pipe, not around. Today we can't hear any water running, so the leak must be near the top of the pipe.

It looks as though we have help on the way :banana02:, so I should have a better idea of what is going on by the weekend. Thanks for everyone's input.

[ronbre]

good luck

[agmantoo]

Deacon, there is a better fix than replacing or replicating the old method. I have made this repair to several ponds plus I have installed the setup in 2 ponds I own an in 3 ponds for others. The siphon system works great. The only thing I do differently is the discharge end needs to be vertical, not 45 degrees, to prevent erosion. When the water is discharged vertically it looses its energy and falls back to the ground without damage. A couple of wheelbarrow loads of crushed stone is all that is needed under the discharge area of the pipe. http://www.ponddampiping.com/syphon1.html

[deaconjim]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Deacon, there is a better fix than replacing or replicating the old method. I have made this repair to several ponds plus I have installed the setup in 2 ponds I own an in 3 ponds for others. The siphon system works great. The only thing I do differently is the discharge end needs to be vertical, not 45 degrees, to prevent erosion. When the water is discharged vertically it looses its energy and falls back to the ground without damage. A couple of wheelbarrow loads of crushed stone is all that is needed under the discharge area of the pipe. http://www.ponddampiping.com/syphon1.html

I like it! Thanks, if I do have to replace it, that looks like the way to do it.

[JJ Grandits]

Most of all the ponds I work on are small landscape reflecting ponds but I have messed with a couple of spring fed ponds too. My suggestion os to get a pump and lower the level of the pond.insert an 8' plastic pipe over the steel pipe as far down as possible. This will buy you some time. The steel pipe will have to be replaced.

[texican]

I'd plug it, anyway I could... getting concrete to stay in the hole could be 'fun'... Might have to send a plug of some sort down to let the concrete have a chance to set up... an old t shirt or rag or somesuch...

I'd never trust a tiny little pipe, for protecting the dam. A torrential rain after the ground is supersaturated, could result in water going over the dam, and destroying it. Even if I got the overflow pipe working, I'd still build a spillway... either with a shovel or a backhoe.

I have a fifteen feet wide spillway. After the pond filled up (took a year) I got very nervous, as the water went over the spillway 18" deep... and the water level rose to within 18" of the top of the dam. Later on, I built another spillway on the opposite side of the pond, as an insurance policy.

I agree... finding water leaking out of a pond is not a pleasant sound. I had major concerns after my pond filled up... developed some leaks through some bands of iron ore rocks... that I hadn't noticed till after it was filled.

[Chuck R.]

When we bought our place 5 years ago, the dam (9-acre pond) was in pretty rough shape. The drain tube had been completely clogged by beavers and the spillway washed out. The tube had been installed in the 60s when the pond was built and was due to be replaced, it light yours was rusting out. IF it’s rusted out in the dam, you can get leakage and erosion. We ended up draining the pond to a level just under the old drain tube, concreting in that tube and replacing it with another tube.

13K later we had the dam resurfaced, new drainpipe installed, and the spillway repaired. Over the next couple years we had to repair the spillway several more times as we and the contractor had underestimated exactly how much water we were getting from the watershed. A 1-inch rain here equals about 4-6 inches of pond level increase in our pond.

I've now concreted in the spillway to make a 25-foot wide low-water crossing and our problems appear to be solved. Every spring the beavers return, but I've gotten pretty good with traps and have a very nice .223 that makes short work of them.

The point of this is that you may want to consult someone who's familiar with dams, and can accurately estimate how much water you'll get in per rain. This is where we failed....... You say it's spring fed, which I don't doubt, but the high ground in the back of your picture leads me to believe you also get some run-off. A spillway has to be a certain width to support the overflow once the rising water overwhelms your drainpipe. Build it too narrow and the water velocity will be increased to the point where erosion occurs. Also if it's too narrow, the incoming water may overwhelm it too and then you can washout your dam.

Ponds are great, but can be expensive to build and maintain.

Chuck

[fantasymaker]

Wrap a inner tube around the outside of the pipe?