Opinions on Radon

[Minelson]

What do you all think about Radon? Is it really as horrible as some think? Does anyone know anybody who died from Radon in their house?
Thank you

[TurnerHill]

It's pretty darn horrible. It causes lung cancer. I don't think there is any serious scientific debate about that. It definately causes lung cancer.

And from my perspective as a rehabber and seller of real estate, it is really bad because a positive radon test impacts not only a potential buyer's willingness to buy, but also their ability to get financing, until it is remediated.

[palani]

Then there are supposed to be caves out west where people go in to get exposed to radon for health reasons.

[Windy in Kansas]

It can be very serious depending upon which state and area you live in.

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/ksrenews/st...efs061109.aspx
From Kansas State University: MANHATTAN, Kan. – Smoking is by far the worst. For nonsmokers, however, the No. 1 cause of lung cancer is exposure to a single, naturally occurring source of indoor air pollution – radon – which is also the No. 2 cause overall.

[Minelson]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

It's pretty darn horrible. It causes lung cancer. I don't think there is any serious scientific debate about that. It definately causes lung cancer.

And from my perspective as a rehabber and seller of real estate, it is really bad because a positive radon test impacts not only a potential buyer's willingness to buy, but also their ability to get financing, until it is remediated.

What are your thoughts on a 4.5 reading?

[Pouncer]

Radon is very dangerous. I am pretty sure that Radon exposure lead to some people I know who developed lung cancers that metastized. They all lived in basements for extended periods of time, this was before it was fairly common knowledge that radon (which you cannot see or smell) was hazardous. Heck I even worry about the two years I spent in Colorado, partial basement apartment.

[Joshie]

Are you purchasing a house with radon? If so, the current owner should have to rid the place of radon.

[ChristyACB]

I'm doing a radon test in the house this weekend because one hasn't been done since I finished the house in '05. From what I can find out some houses are going to be more likely to collect it than others so I'm not too worried for this one. Some items that help keep radon out even if you are in an area with compatible ground for it are a tall crawlspace that is ventilated and a well sealed floor above the crawlspace so anything gassing up won't find that to be the easy way in.

But radon is such bad stuff that anyone and everyone should test for it, but in particular if you have a basement or a house on a slab.

Also, the radon map for likely areas is here: http://www.epa.gov/radon/zonemap.html

[foxtrapper]

You will never find a case of someone dying from radon. It is not a toxic. Unlike things like arsenic, which is a toxic. So you can breath radon just fine. And you can drink water contaminated with it without getting so much as an upset tummy.

Radon is a radioactive material. And radioactive materials have a strong link associating them with cancer. Some still insist the link is non-existant. But by and large the scientific community is well convinced that radiation indeed causes mutigen cell growth, which is cancer.

Cancer is pesky, in that it can take years to develop. Decades in fact. This is why people can spend their youth and middle years sun bathing and tanning and not have any problems with melanomas until they are in their 50-70's.

So, you will not find a single case of people dying directly from radon. What you will find is a strong link between chronic radon exposure and increased rates of cancer. Lung cancer being the most common, as radon is a gas and gasses are breathed in.

Conveniently, radon is a heavier than air gas, and enters houses by perculating up from the ground. This makes it easy to deal with. Nothing more than a small fan with an inlet vent on the basement floor and an exit to the outside, preferably on the downwind side.

Why is radon a "new" problem? Two main reasons. One, no one knew about it long ago. Two, old houses are drafty, so it got blown out. New houses wrapped in tyvec hold all kinds of things in.

[Wolf mom]

The day before you have your house tested, open it all up, air it out. Your radon test will be minimal.

Radon build up occurs with the newer, tightly built buildings. Think "green"...

This is a perfect example of "for every up side, there's a down side."

[deb]

Originally Posted by Minelson

What are your thoughts on a 4.5 reading?

This is taken fromWho EPA website Can Test or Fix Your Home?

Test Your Home for Radon -- It's Easy and Inexpensive
The U.S. Surgeon General and EPA recommend that all homes be tested. Read about radon health risks.
Fix your home if you have a radon level of 4 pCi/L or more.
You can test your home yourself or hire a professional.
If you have further questions about Radon, please call your State Radon Contact (just click on your state) or the National Radon Information Line at:
1-800-SOS-RADON [1 (800) 767-7236]
Read "A Citizen's Guide To Radon"
Also read the: "Home Buyer's and Seller's Guide to Radon"
Get the Adobe Acrobat Reader to view PDF files linked on this page. See EPA's PDF page to learn more.

The house needs to get fixed according to the EPA. It will affect your house's future sale price plus it will affect your health until you move out..

My mom died of lung cancer and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

deb
in wi

[Harry Chickpea]

I refuse to do it again, but a few years back I chewed through all of the figures and data on this that I could reasonably find. First - Yes, it is a potential danger. Second - there is some indication that it is much more a danger to smokers than non-smokers. Third - the figures are minuscule compared to other issues. You literally have a better chance of winning the lottery than being seriously affected. You have a many many times greater chance of death or injury from a fall in a tub. IIRC, the VERIFIABLE figures were unavailable, but the best educated guesses were one or two people in the entire country being affected in any year.

If your goal is to be safe, this is one of the lowest priorities on any sane list. Buckle that seatbelt, try to avoid areas with high accident rates, watch carefully at intersections and don't talk on a cellphone while driving, and I can flat-out guarantee that you will be hundreds of times safer than by spending money and time on radon issues.

Radon makes great headlines because it is a good boogyman, fits the agendas of a lot of organizations, and has the potential of selling a lot of semi-useless and expensive equipment. Something to consider - the OVERALL effect of Radon control measures is almost certainly MORE deaths than if it was ignored! Why? Because the manufacture of the materials, such as the plastic, requires energy. The fans used to blow the air out use energy. Most of our energy comes from coal, and this means more exposure for coal miners, who get real illnesses, like black lung and emphysema, and are killed in cave-ins. The people installing the equipment are at risk of injury or death from falling objects and working in moldy or cement dust filled areas.

Radon is, when you look at the big picture, a vastly overblown rare problem, that has become popularized because of media value.

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by Minelson

What are your thoughts on a 4.5 reading?

You (or your buyer, if you're selling) won't get an FHA mortgage on it.

And I wouldn't live in it, personally. Lung cancer is an ugly way to go.

[SolarGary]

Hi,
I'm not sure about the health issues with Radon -- we have chosen to take them seriously, and put a Radon mitigation system in, which reduced our basement reading from about 4 down to well under 1.

I did the the system myself, and it was pretty straightforward. Punch a 5 inch hole in the concrete slab with a rented drill, dig out some gravel below the slab to make a small air pocket, run a 3 inch PVC pipe from the hole in the slab up to the attic and vent it through the roof, and install a Radon fan in the duct (installed in the attic part in our case). Seal up the area where the PVC penetrates the concrete. You need to do another test after you install the system -- our hardware store sells mail in test kits. I think that these are better than the overnight ones the Radon guys do in that they measure exposure over at least a month.

One thing that I was not tuned to when I did this was the amount of electricity that Radon fans can use -- they are on 24/7. Ours is a small 40 watt fan, and it uses 350 KWH a year -- about the same as a good fridge. But, I've seen fans up to 130 watts -- this would be 1200 KWH a year -- a major use, not to mention over a ton of CO2 emissions that goes with generating that electricity.

I've since put my fan on a 15 minutes on/15 minutes off cycle to cut the usage in half. Still need to do another test to confirm that the Radon level is OK, but I suspect its still fine.

Anyway, if you have a Radon system installed, I would try a passive system first (no fan). In most cases these will work, and you won't be stuck with a major new electricity drain. If it does not work, I'd then move up to the smallest and most efficient fan you can buy.

Gary

[Beaners]

Originally Posted by Wolf mom

The day before you have your house tested, open it all up, air it out. Your radon test will be minimal.

Instead of this, I'd rather perform the test under the same conditions that the house would usually be in. What's the point of passing the test but having to live with a higher rating?

Kayleigh

[snoozy]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

Third - the figures are minuscule compared to other issues. You literally have a better chance of winning the lottery than being seriously affected. You have a many many times greater chance of death or injury from a fall in a tub. IIRC, the VERIFIABLE figures were unavailable, but the best educated guesses were one or two people in the entire country being affected in any year.

This is what Wikipedia says:

"According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency, radon could be the second most frequent cause of lung cancer, after cigarette smoking; and radon-induced lung cancer the 6th leading cause of cancer death overall, causing 21,000 lung cancer deaths per year in the United States.[3]"

21,000 is not 2.

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

I refuse to do it again, but a few years back I chewed through all of the figures and data on this that I could reasonably find. First - Yes, it is a potential danger. Second - there is some indication that it is much more a danger to smokers than non-smokers. Third - the figures are minuscule compared to other issues. You literally have a better chance of winning the lottery than being seriously affected. You have a many many times greater chance of death or injury from a fall in a tub. IIRC, the VERIFIABLE figures were unavailable, but the best educated guesses were one or two people in the entire country being affected in any year.

If your goal is to be safe, this is one of the lowest priorities on any sane list. Buckle that seatbelt, try to avoid areas with high accident rates, watch carefully at intersections and don't talk on a cellphone while driving, and I can flat-out guarantee that you will be hundreds of times safer than by spending money and time on radon issues.

Radon makes great headlines because it is a good boogyman, fits the agendas of a lot of organizations, and has the potential of selling a lot of semi-useless and expensive equipment. Something to consider - the OVERALL effect of Radon control measures is almost certainly MORE deaths than if it was ignored! Why? Because the manufacture of the materials, such as the plastic, requires energy. The fans used to blow the air out use energy. Most of our energy comes from coal, and this means more exposure for coal miners, who get real illnesses, like black lung and emphysema, and are killed in cave-ins. The people installing the equipment are at risk of injury or death from falling objects and working in moldy or cement dust filled areas.

Radon is, when you look at the big picture, a vastly overblown rare problem, that has become popularized because of media value.

Not sure where you got any of that, but those are not the figures I'm familiar with. Not close.

Look, it would greatly simplify my life if radon weren't an issue. But it is.

[Harry Chickpea]

Verifiable. That is the key. You have to search deeper than EPA speculation. Like I said, I did the research before, I don't intend to do it again. If you think it is a big problem, great. Whatever floats your boat.

[plowjockey]

What's the big deal?

If you have a high level of radon in the home, deal with it by venting or whatever is necessary. Usually if you have radon, everybody esle nearby has it also. Maybe the whole town. What do they do?

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by SolarGary

Hi,
I'm not sure about the health issues with Radon -- we have chosen to take them seriously, and put a Radon mitigation system in, which reduced our basement reading from about 4 down to well under 1.

I did the the system myself, and it was pretty straightforward. Punch a 5 inch hole in the concrete slab with a rented drill, dig out some gravel below the slab to make a small air pocket, run a 3 inch PVC pipe from the hole in the slab up to the attic and vent it through the roof, and install a Radon fan in the duct (installed in the attic part in our case). Seal up the area where the PVC penetrates the concrete. You need to do another test after you install the system -- our hardware store sells mail in test kits. I think that these are better than the overnight ones the Radon guys do in that they measure exposure over at least a month.

One thing that I was not tuned to when I did this was the amount of electricity that Radon fans can use -- they are on 24/7. Ours is a small 40 watt fan, and it uses 350 KWH a year -- about the same as a good fridge. But, I've seen fans up to 130 watts -- this would be 1200 KWH a year -- a major use, not to mention over a ton of CO2 emissions that goes with generating that electricity.

I've since put my fan on a 15 minutes on/15 minutes off cycle to cut the usage in half. Still need to do another test to confirm that the Radon level is OK, but I suspect its still fine.

Anyway, if you have a Radon system installed, I would try a passive system first (no fan). In most cases these will work, and you won't be stuck with a major new electricity drain. If it does not work, I'd then move up to the smallest and most efficient fan you can buy.

Gary

Thank you.

I have heard of these 'systems'.

I wondered about what they were.