FDA policies may affect homesteaders

[foxtrapper]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

This could have a very significant impact on those that sell eggs or produce off their farms.

[insocal]

IIRC, the US does not regulate eggs/produce that are not sold across state lines. State laws would apply for small-scale local sales.

Improvement in factory-farmed egg production and safety issues is long overdue. I support any upgrades that stand to reduce the incidence of Salmonella in store-bought eggs. We all should.

[Danaus29]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the last I saw in writing was that federal laws, rules, and regulations supercede state laws, rules, and regulations unless the state laws, rules, or regulations are more imposing than federal laws.

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by Danaus29

Correct me if I'm wrong

OK, you're wrong.

But the bigger reason that this isn't a tragedy for "homesteaders" is that it doesn't impact operations with fewer than 3,000 hens. I'm sorry, but 3,000 hens isn't a "homestead" operation.

It also doesn't impact producers who sell directly to consumers.

There I go again, introducing facts into a discussion.*head-smack*

[Pearl B]

Originally Posted by Danaus29

Correct me if I'm wrong but the last I saw in writing was that federal laws, rules, and regulations supercede state laws, rules, and regulations unless the state laws, rules, or regulations are more imposing than federal laws.

I think you're right on that one.

[Pearl B]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

OK, you're wrong.What a friendly response, I guess you are always right & everyone else is always wrong. Must be a full time job setting everyone else in the world straight

But the bigger reason that this isn't a tragedy for "homesteaders" is that it doesn't impact operations with fewer than 3,000 hens. I'm sorry, but 3,000 hens isn't a "homestead" operation. I read the article, I didn't see where any number of chickens were specified, got a link?

It also doesn't impact producers who sell directly to consumers.Says who? you?

There I go again, introducing facts into a discussion.*head-smack*I See you introducing more attitude than facts. Its one thing to say here's what I have found & backing it up, its another to come out & tell everyone they are wrong,if they dont agree with you. Whatever works for ya

I don't think you have as many answers as you claim too

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by Trinity3

I don't think you have as many answers as you claim too

First, the "you're wrong" was clearly a joking response to "correct me if I'm wrong." Unless you are just determined to get your undies in a bunch.

Second, Why don't you try reading the actual regulations, not just a 400 word news article, before getting all worked up about what they do and do not contain?

I don't feel I have a mission to correct everything on here. Which is a good thing, because while there is a lot of good information on here, there is a tremendous amount that is just plain wrong.

But I do think that before one goes running to post on a discussion board and get people all wound up, one has a responsibility to really know what one is talking about.

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Cons.../ucm170640.htm

Scroll down. Then take a chill pill.

[PhilJohnson]

TurnerHill, your right about this one but usually federal law trumps state law. A good example of this is automotive safety and emissions standards. States are free to put stricter standards than the Fed but are not allowed to have lesser standards. California is an example of this, the standards are stricter there and all cars sold there have to comply to those stricter standards.

[Pearl B]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

First, the "you're wrong" was clearly a joking response to "correct me if I'm wrong." Unless you are just determined to get your undies in a bunch.When people don't agree with me, I dont auotmatically accuse them of having there undies in a bunch, on a family board, if you are having that problem, I would suggest you find a way to get over it.

Second, Why don't you try reading the actual regulations, not just a 400 word news article, before getting all worked up about what they do and do not contain?Why didn't you just post your view & the regulation backing that up in the 1st place? Would have solved alot of questions from the get go.

I don't feel I have a mission to correct everything on here. Which is a good thing, because while there is a lot of good information on here, there is a tremendous amount that is just plain wrong.I think some here would disagree with that statement. Again, its not a right or wrong thing, its how you present your info, infused with an attitude

But I do think that before one goes running to post on a discussion board and get people all wound up, one has a responsibility to really know what one is talking about.Im really not sure you have the market cornered on that one

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Cons.../ucm170640.htm

Scroll down. Then take a chill pill.Maybe you should take your own advice

Oh well what an interesting non debate & exchange of info

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by PhilJohnson

TurnerHill, your right about this one but usually federal law trumps state law. A good example of this is automotive safety and emissions standards. States are free to put stricter standards than the Fed but are not allowed to have lesser standards. California is an example of this, the standards are stricter there and all cars sold there have to comply to those stricter standards.

Right, that's because cars are goods in interstate commerce.

[mpillow]

Get your customer base now and take down your sign...don't invite trouble....do what you need to do to keep your "business" private

Here are your eggs/milk/chicken/rabbit etc...would you like to make a "donation" to the feed bill?

[PhilJohnson]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

Right, that's because cars are goods in interstate commerce.

Some Producers Exempt

The regulation does not apply to producers with fewer than 3,000 laying hens. These producers account for less than 1 percent of U.S. eggs. The regulation also does not apply to producers who sell all of their eggs directly to consumers.

Producers who treat their eggs to destroy SE, such as by in-shell pasteurization, or who process their eggs into egg products, need to comply only with the parts of the regulation addressing refrigeration and registration. FDA requires all producers who must comply with the regulation to do so between 12 and 36 months after issuance of the regulation, depending on the size of the operation.

Coming back to the eggs, your argument would hold more merit if there was something actually differentiating those producers selling eggs intrastate or interstate written in that paragraph. There is nothing preventing me, the small time chicken farmer from selling my eggs across state lines in that paragraph as long as I have under 3000 hens or selling them directly to the public. However as I take it, it doesn't matter if I sell entirely within the state or out of state if I have over 3000 hens and sell those eggs to a wholesaler. I still have to comply with those regulations.

[VOR.]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

Right, that's because cars are goods in interstate commerce.

I saw in one of your posts that you went to law school. I'm surprised that you are not familiar with Wickard v. Filburn.

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by mpillow

Get your customer base now and take down your sign...don't invite trouble....do what you need to do to keep your "business" private

Here are your eggs/milk/chicken/rabbit etc...would you like to make a "donation" to the feed bill?

Sucessful businesses, large and small, will always find a way to comply with any government regulations and still flourish. Many times people complain, about how difficult it it to comply, while others do what they need to do and their business continues, just fine.

When America has to become an underground economy, we've got a real problem on our hands.

These new regulations are a non-issue to the small egg producer, who sells from home, anyway.

[PhilJohnson]

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Sucessful businesses, large and small, will always find a way to comply with any government regulations and still flourish. Many times people complain, about how difficult it it to comply, while others do what they need to do and their business continues, just fine.

When America has to become an underground economy, we've got a real problem on our hands.

These new regulations are a non-issue to the small egg producer, who sells from home, anyway.

Personally I don't have a problem with these regulations myself. I used to haul can milk from Amish farms. I shudder when I hear stories about people from the big city buying milk from the Amish and drinking it. There is a good reason why certain things need to be pasteurized and why there are regulations regarding food. That said though I think what you do for your own consumption is your own business and not the FDAs.

[foxtrapper]

Well, regardless of who trumps who, many agencies and markets and such follow the lead of the federal government. If the FDA says eggs should be refrigerated, state regulations tend to say eggs should be refrigerated. And many a farmers market then requires refrigerators for eggs sold at them.

So, if the feds say eggs should be inspected for salmonela, one can expect a trickle down of this to state and county levels. How long that trickle down will take will very of course. But trickle down it most likely will.

Same with the rest of the concerns being raised under this. The washing of produce, etc. This all could have one heck of an effect on pick your own farms, roadside stands, farmers markets, etc.

Not saying it absolutely will. Just observing what looks like a dark cloud on the horizon, and recognizing that this could be a heck of a thunderstorm heading our way.

[65284]

The problem with this, and most govt. regulations, is that they tend to morph into something quite different than what they started out to be. By the time this has filtered through various bureaucrats the interpertation and administration of it this policy may be very different than what is stated.

Once these rules are on the books they are easily changed with little or notice to the folks they affect. They usually soon reflect the opinions of the people that are in charge of enforcement. Or changes, almost never for the better, are forced by lawsuits filed by special interest groups aided and abetted by like minded judges.

[Stann]

Many of you people are missing it. The OP's referenced article is talking about a PROPOSAL. That means that the information presented is not yet required to be followed.

Here's the applicable statement from the article, "The new proposals, recommended by a working group that President Obama created in March, emphasize prevention, enforcement and improving the government's response time to such incidents."

It seems that this article referenced by TurnerHill describes FDA REGULATIONS. They are rules that must be followed and are government enforced.

Do you see the distinction? There is NO indication that the OP's referenced article is referring to TurnerHill's referenced article.

[ronbre]

from a person that gets sick a lot from chicken and eggs even when properly stored and cooked and everything washed in dishwasher..etc..I'm still not for a lot of regulations..but I do know that there is a lot of crappy poultry and egg people out there ....i have to be so careful when i purchase chicken or chicken products so i don't end up lying on the bathroom floor in pain all night long.

I hate government..esp this one..but I also hate being ill..(both sides of the story)..good quality fertilized eggs do NOT make me sick

[mpillow]

"When America has to become an underground economy, we've got a real problem on our hands."

But when American gov't creates and enforces (excessive) laws that undermine small holders/producers and there's nothing on the grocery store shelves because of global economics and/or poor weather....those of us who more or less thumb our noses to the bureaucratic BS will be the ones who feed ourselves and others....

Personal freedom trumps all....Don't let the gov't play you for a fool, they don't even read the crap that they vote on more than half the time.....