save electricity - pay more tax for it!

[rambler]

If you are in Missouri or there abouts, might want to be aware your govt is about to pass a law that will charge you a bonus tax if you save any electricity. Probably will come visit all of us in all the states sooner or later.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/polit...y/1307200.html

The gov is proud of himself, even, for this idea.

Cap & Trade is going to be _soooo_ wonderful for all of us!

So, don't bother trying to save any electricity....

--->Paul

[Bearfootfarm]

I think its a great concept.
I think I will send them a bill for NOT selling them my lambs.
Think of all the money they will save by nor having to pay shipping!!

[donnam]

In the next 2 years or so, electricity is going to be deregulated here and the cost is supposed to go up 30 - 50%, in addition to whatever the federal government will do to it. It depresses me to think about it.

[Beeman]

Your utility is a for profit publicly traded utility. I read the article and the state has allowed them to recoup the cost of their energy saving programs, basically raising rates for those that use energy. Would you have preferred the gov't pay for the costs? Would you prefer the gov't taking over the utility? They actually have to get approval for any increaes from the gov't because utilities are controlled, or should they be de-regulated?

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by donnam

In the next 2 years or so, electricity is going to be deregulated here and the cost is supposed to go up 30 - 50%, in addition to whatever the federal government will do to it. It depresses me to think about it.

So the question is..Is gov't regulation good or is it bad? Isn't a free market what everyone wants?

[Danaus29]

I read the entire article. What is actually happening is that consumers who sign up for energy reduction programs through the power company (i.e., energy audits, free programmable thermostats, etc) will no longer receive those services for free. There will be a charge for those services.

IMO, I wouldn't want one of their "free" programmable thermostats anyway. They are remote controlled and the energy co has the power to reset them in times of high demand.

We once did one of those energy audit savings things. Didn't reduce our bills by one penny. We already had implemented most of their suggestions. A waste of time, IMO.

[Danaus29]

Govt regulation on things everyone has to have seems to work better than the "free market system". Look at what happened to the phone system and the gasoline companies. There needs to be some sort of control over products or services (hospitals) where people have no choice. Utility deregulation has been proven to be more expensive time after time.

[TurnerHill]

Are you seriously suggesting that the phone system was better before deregulation? Really?

People have short memories.

[mnn2501]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

Are you seriously suggesting that the phone system was better before deregulation? Really?
.

Sure was cheaper, I remember paying under $8.00 a month for phone service and my phone reaches the same people it did then.
The one difference - push buttons instead of a dial

[TurnerHill]

Originally Posted by mnn2501

Sure was cheaper, I remember paying under $8.00 a month for phone service and my phone reaches the same people it did then.
The one difference - push buttons instead of a dial

If you were calling across town, it may have been less expensive. Although I'd be interested in how that $8.00 would look, adjusted for inflation.

But long distance was much, much more expensive.

Not to mention the fact that if it was up to Bell, we might just now be being introduced to a nifty little tool called the internet.

People have short memories.

[ronbre]

phone company refuses to put in repaired lines out here to our house so we put up with antique phone lines that were put in 100 years ago..and they can't be fixed..so they say..as it is too expensive to repair them..no fibre optic here..they can't afford the expense of running it in our area..we dont' have high speed internet over our antique phone lines..and with a $9 discount we still pay nearly $40 a mo for crap service..

I even have a cell phone that is NOT tied to our regular phone service for $55 a mo with my son's service..so i can get internet..so now I pay $95. for phone and internet...and I don't ever use the cell for phone..and never make a long distance call..

oh i was surprised when our elec bill was down about $6 until i realized they only billed for 28 days ..

[Jennifer L.]

They are doing this, from the article, to avoid having to build new power plants, which will cost MORE. Doesn't seem out of line to me.

Isn't it as simple as, if you use stuff, you have to pay for it?

Jennifer

[mnn2501]

Originally Posted by TurnerHill

People have short memories.

My memory is just fine. It was a much better time in my opinion -- a slower paced life, you knew your neighbors and visited them along with family and friends.

Believe it or not, there was life before; the internet, cable tv, cell phones, etc.
But then you did have to get off your butt to change channels on the TV. and while I do have many more channels there is still seldom anything good to watch.

[Danaus29]

Before deregulation you could expect a reasonable repair time. The lines out here are the same ones that were here before deregulation, but the phone co won't do repair calls anymore. As for deregulation opening the market to competitors, what competitors???? All we have is still incomptent AT&T, who owns the lines anyway. Maybe in areas where you had true competiton and several companies from which to choose it made a difference, but not out in the sticks where there was no competition and no choice.

I wouldn't be able to access the 'net on the phone lines. I have to go through cable. Also only serviced by a single provider.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Beeman

Isn't a free market what everyone wants?

Hmm as long as its truly free and I have the right to say no to buying the product. Seems like our benevolent govt wants the companies to now make their profit and to use govt power to force us to buy these products or face a govt imposed fine. Smells like fascism to me to use govt power to protect private corporation profits.

Right now I could go tell the electric company to do a particular impossible physical act to themselves. And then live without being hooked to the grid. However if I rented, my landlord could require I buy electricity or it would be grounds to be kicked out. Or if I had a mortgage, the mortgage holder could require me to stay on grid in order to protect his "investment". You get the idea. And I wouldnt be surprised if in future govt directly required electric hookup even if you own your home outright. Right now they will threaten to take your children from you if you try going without.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Danaus29

Govt regulation on things everyone has to have seems to work better than the "free market system".

Have to have? Well less than a century ago most rural people didnt have electricity unless they got one of those Delco plants to produce their own. And they certainly didnt have air conditioning even if they did have a Delco plant.

Now I wouldnt want to live in some treeless mobile home park or yuppie suburb in TX without an air conditioner, but not so bad with shade and a house built to take advantage of any natural breezes. Thats why old houses had tall ceilings.

[Old Vet]

Originally Posted by Jennifer L.

They are doing this, from the article, to avoid having to build new power plants, which will cost MORE. Doesn't seem out of line to me.

Isn't it as simple as, if you use stuff, you have to pay for it?

Jennifer

You are wrong but right. They are doing this because any Fossil fuel fired plaint has been stopped and they can't be built now because of government regulations. Look at the one in Arkansas for the real story.

[Danaus29]

True, we could live without electric. Just like we could live without phones or gas powered vehicles. The Amish do it. People all over this country do live without electric service.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Danaus29

True, we could live without electric. Just like we could live without phones or gas powered vehicles. The Amish do it. People all over this country do live without electric service.

And if a significant number of people discontinued buying service/product when prices go crazy, then bean counter at the company has to learn the facts of economic life of where supply meets demand at a certain price. Raise price and lose sales. Get real greedy, lose a whole lot of buisiness. The medical services industry could for sure use a good dose of such reality.

[Danaus29]

Then it goes back to people cutting back. Not going to happen even if it would mean lower prices in the long run. Some people just have this need to heat the outdoors and leave every light on in the house. Of course people did cut back when the gas prices went through the roof. But once the price goes back down, people go back to being wasteful.

People like us will cut back, go off-grid, supplement with alternative energy, etc. But the majority of the population would sell their soul to keep their lights on 24/7.