Help this Newbie Make a Plan

[acesup]

Years ago a friend of mine talked of moving out to the country, building our own house, living closer to the land. He was in school at Kansas City at the time, and I was in Dallas, so nothing much came of our plans, which were more of dreams really. It was tough to keep in contact with each other, and everyone else in our lives discouraged that kind of dream.

Over the years other aspects of life kept me from ever pursuing that dream, school, family, girlfriends, jobs, etc. I started to let people make me believe it just wasn't possible. But I never really got the idea out of my head, though I'd pushed it in the back for some years. Well now I'm ready to commit to that dream. After searching around for what I want out of life, I've realized all I want is a little bit of land, a little bit of privacy, food, shelter, family, animals, and a good woman. And I suppose a little income will be necessary.

I've been reading books and looking at articles online, but they aren't quite getting at what I need to know. They give you the how-to for all the various things involved in homesteading, gardening, raising animals, building a house, etc. But I can't even practice those things because I'm not ready to start the life yet. I have no place to put chickens, for instance. No books talk about the transition, about how exactly you go from a city life to a country life with no training at all. All the books seem to assume that you already have some kind of country background, as if no one that was exclusively raised in the suburbs would ever want to go back to the land. So that's what I want to hear about. How did you all get started? Who here came from the city, and how did you manage the transition? I will still need a job for some time, but is there any path of employment I can take that will help me get closer to my dream?

I guess some specifics are in order. Let me talk about myself a bit.

I'm 27 years old, living near Dallas, TX. I've lived around Dallas since I was 6 years old. I was raised in the suburbs my whole life, and don't have any training at all really in self-sustaining skills. I was taught that sustaining yourself meant playing the city game, getting a good job that probably has nothing to do with what you actually want, and using your paycheck to provide. Mostly, I assumed that was just the way it was. I didn't really like it, but didn't hate it, it just was. Now I'm almost thirty and I'm finally realizing how possible my dream is. Only I feel stuck because I feel too old to learn how to be a farmer. I've got a small vegetable garden at my grandmother's house, but other than that I've got no experience in country living.

I graduated college with a bachelor's degree in studio art, so no real opportunities there. In college I managed to rack up several thousand dollars of debt. I currently work a full time job at about 10 bucks an hour. With that debt, I just barely get by. I know that it will be some time before I can actually afford a plot of land and whats more, afford to make the move and everything that entails, but I'm hoping it can be done inside 5 years.

My wants are simple. I'd like 1-3 acres to start off. I want to build as cheap a house as possible. I'm talking cheap. Whenever me and my girlfriend go to Lowes we always walk past those big shed/ tiny barn looking structures they sell for anywhere from 2-7K and I think that's pretty expensive for what you get. Still, there's several models I'd live in. I don't anticipate needing much living space, as I want to spend as much time outdoors as possible. I can transition into a bigger house slowly. To start off, I just need a place that will fit a bed, a dining table and chairs, and a humble kitchen area. Oh, and a bathroom I guess.

I want to take care of producing as much of the food I eat as possible. 100% is the goal, but I think about things like flour and sugar and figure I'll be buying some stuff too. But I'd like to unplug myself as much as possible from the Big Food Trade and all its ills. I want to grow vegetables, fruit trees, and raise some animals. Chickens and other fowl, rabbits, bees, maybe goats or sheep. Possibly a few pigs. And I want two horses eventually. I've been on horses maybe 4 times in my life, trail horses when I was a wee little cub scout. That is to say, I know nothing about them.

I've thought about going to a local junior college that offers associates degrees in agriculture or farm and ranch management. Going through a school system to learn about living closer to the land seems kind of weird to me, but I don't know how else a 27 year old boy from the city gets a start at this kind of thing. I don't think there's much of a chance of any farmers taking me under their wing to teach me what I need, much less getting any employment to live off of in the process. And as cheap as junior college is, it would still be very tough for me to pay for it. I feel trapped in the city. I don't want a lot of money, but it seems like to make the transition from city life to country life is going to take quite a bit. As if you have to buy your way out of the financial system.

As far as where I'd like to live, I'd be reasonably flexible if it means getting to accomplish these goals. My initial preference is to stay in Texas because I've lived here my whole life and I know I like it. But who knows, maybe I'd like somewhere else better. These are my requirements for an area:

I need decent enough soil to grow crops without getting so discouraged I abandon my plan. I'm guessing this rules out desert as I don't think I could afford the irrigation to make gardening viable.

I despise cold weather. I get depressed every winter, and I live in Texas. Although it has occurred to me that maybe if the winters were prettier somewhere else, the cold might not get to me so much. Winter in Texas is just cold and ugly, theres nothing pretty about it. There's never snow, just sludge. But I would like to stay more south than north. I'd be willing to step outside of my winter comfort zone a little though for the right place. A place that is pretty year round, fertile enough to grow crops, and doesnt get extreme cold or have too long winters. I don't know America's climates that well, but I think about Tennessee, the Carolinas, Virginia. California of course, but for now I'm assuming it is absolutely unaffordable.

The last requirement is that the land needs to be reasonably close to a somewhat big city, since I'm a beginner. I'm thinking 1-2.5 hours outside of a "big enough" city. As to what a big enough city is, if you know Denton, TX, thats a perfect city to me. It's not a big, robust, rat-race city, but it's got anything you could need out of a city.

Though not a hard requirement, power and water would be nice. Eventually I'd like to take my house off grid and make my own energy, but I may need to start slow.

That's about it. I need to know how to formulate a solid plan. I've seen plots of land online that are so cheap I could buy one cash after a good night at the poker table. But I know if I just jump into this thing it will be a screaming disaster. I have to take it a little slower than I'd like I'm sure, but I don't want it to take forever. I think 5 years is a reasonable time frame.

I've also thought about making the transition by putting in an inbetween step. I've read some about urban farming type lifestyles. A house with an empty lot next to it would be plenty for a garden, couple of fruit trees, chickens, rabbits, and bees. I don't know where to go for that though, because house living is expensive. I rent a tiny apartment right now with a roommate, and its all I can afford. I'll go anywhere though if I can make it work financially. I'll live in the slums, I really don't mind. I actually kind of prefer poorer places because I feel more in my element.

Well, I should stop rambling. If you've read this far, thank you very much for taking an interest. I'd really appreciate any advice you all have, as I am very much in need of assistance.

[glazed]

We are two peas in the same pod.

[Beeman]

I don't know how far in debt you are. There's 24hrs. in a day and you're 27yo working more to pay off your debt is a good way to practice for the arse busting attempting to be self sufficient will take. Forget about the junior college or the paying for education stuff or digging a bigger hole. Get debt free and save up some money.

[glazed]

Originally Posted by acesup

I feel trapped in the city. I don't want a lot of money, but it seems like to make the transition from city life to country life is going to take quite a bit. As if you have to buy your way out of the financial system.

I can relate to every single thing you said ... from the initial dream, to the disregard of it ... from the re-dreaming stage to the frustration ... from your education to your location ... from your upbringing to your sense of un-belonging (as it relates to the upbringing mindset) ... from your ideas to your realities.

But the biggest relation I have to you lies within the quote ^^up there^^

Brilliant perception ... you worded that perfectly.

I have comments to make, later, when I have more time tonight. Right now, I have a baby girl to get out of the bath and into bed

[Maura]

Welcome to the forum.

Right now you need to bring down your debt, but you also need to save money. In these difficult economic times, you might be able to find a rental that is less than what you are paying now. If you want to stay where you are, you might be able to swing a better deal in your present rent because if Texas is anything like Michigan, rentals are going begging.

You are probably living cheap right now, keep living cheap or even cheaper. Give up coffee, walk, etc. Save pennies if you can't save dollars. Cook all of your food from scratch- something you can do right now before you make a move to the country. Look for little ways you can earn money, an hour of labor here and there- and put away that money. The library is a wonderful tool. Use it to learn about lasagna gardening, and other skills you will need. You can do a lot with three acres if it is the right three acres.

The housing market is not going to get better over the next couple of years. Foreclosures are going to continue to come on the market. Someone else's tragedy, however, can be your opportunity. As for buying a place in the slums, if by slum you mean drive by shootings, I don't think that is a good idea. What happens when you want to start a family? You have to start by selling your house, a house in a neighborhood where values don't appreciate. Places in the country have lesser purchase prices than in the city and if you get far enough away from the city, you can live in a safe (safer) area than a city slum for the same price.

You wrote that you see places online so cheap you could buy them with poker winnings. Well, if you are so good at poker that you always win, save that money. If you are really only breaking even you might want to reconsider. At any rate, don't start online. Research areas you might like to live in, taking into consideration weather, quality of land, employment in your field. From there, discover price. Then, contact a real estate agent that handles foreclosures.

[Jan Sears]

Start small. We did. The first year we planted fruit trees. The next year we planted a garden. A few years later we raised meat chickens & slaughtered them ourselves. Read up on how to do it on the internet & talked to folks who were already doing this kind of thing. A few years again & we got laying hens. We sold the extra eggs to family & friends & it covered the cost of the feed for the hens, thus our eggs we consumed were almost free. My husband built a 600 sq. ft. cabin. It has a sleeping loft upstairs & 1 bedroom downstairs we have no electricity or running water in it. We have a sawdust toilet & a woodburning 1930's cookstove that we cook on & heat with. We carry water in to it in big barrels. We have our own wood for heat & cooking. My husband & I didn't get married until we were 45 & he just built the cabin last year & we are now 62. BUT we have no debt. My husband only bought stuff if he could pay cash, which included house, land we were given, & our car & tractor etc. Could you raise some chickens at your grandmothers - where you have your garden? On your days off could you get some work working on a place that has a garden market or pick your own. They are always scarce of people who are willing to do this type of work. You would get some experience & some extra cash to put to saving for your piece of land. Get yourself a copy of Carla Emory's "Encyclopedia of Country Living" she has a wealth of info in it.
Hope you can realize your dreams & get out of & stay out of debt.

[Buffy in Dallas]

Hi neighbor!
Your not allowed to feel old till your at least 40!!!
I'm in transition to being a farmer right now and I'm 45!

First of all... Buy land NOW. Don't put it off. If times get tough you can always camp out there. Try to find someone who is owner financing so that you don't have to deal with Trying to get a loan. (good luck on that right now!)
If you buy now you can work on it on weekends and add stuff whenever you have the money. I would try to buy at least 3 to 5 acres, 10 if you can. The more you have, the more you can do! Its always nice to have a pond and a creek on the property. Plant trees as soon as possible and maybe have a pond made during the dry season.

A "shed" house is a good Idea. You can use it as a barn later.

Check out Fannin and Hunt counties. Fannin is where I bought my 14 acres. There is still affordable land there. Its within a hour of Dallas. The further East you go from I-75(central expressway) the more rain you get.
Don't go west unless you REALLY like cactus!

I second Jan Sears in recommending Carla Emory's "Encyclopedia of Country Living". That was the best book investment I ever made!

How close is your Grandma to you? Would she mind if you did a little suburban farming at her house? I live in Richardson and I garden and have Chickens. The city has no problems with them as long as no one complains.

Have you seen http://pathtofreedom.com/

Read, read, read. I LOVE Libraries! Ask LOTS of Questions here, then Practice at grandma's.

Good luck!
Ps. if your near Richardson I have a TON of books you could borrow!
Feel free to PM me.

[glazed]

I love the Dervaes family, and their edible gardening ... I found their "Path to Freedom" site last year, and have been hooked ever since.

Thank you for posting the link.

[Old Vet]

Many people think that Homesteading is way too much to do at once. homestead is a way of life. You can do this even if you don't Owen land. Start small and grow into it instead of just tiring to make it fit you all at once. Start with a small garden even at your grandmas and go from their.ave enough to make a down payment on a piece of property then when you have that then you can really make plains. Any plains that you make before you have property is dreaming and nothing is wrong with dreaming but what you do with the property will fit the property not your ideas. Any thing that will make you more self sufficient is what homesteading is about some people think it is where you live and what you do with your land but it is more than that. Once you start the life of a homesteader you will always be better off than before.

[hotzcatz]

Well, to start with small steps, start buying ingredients instead of food. Start cooking from scratch and only go to the store once a week. On many farms, there aren't a lot of restaurants and grocery stores nearby, so you make and grow your own. Even if you can't start out growing all of your own food, you can buy flour and practice making bread, buy cheap roasts and grind them up for sausage, etc.

Keep up with the garden at your grandmother's house. Gardening is a lot like homesteading. See if you can get enough vegetables to practice canning and preserving the harvest. Perhaps you could have a couple of hens or a rabbit hutch there?

Buying a trailer house might be a good start on a farm. Instead of paying rent somewhere, you'd be buying a trailer. See if you could find some land you'd be able to move the trailer to. That would set you up with living quarters right away.

Drive around within forty five minutes of where you work and see if there is any farmland available. Then look to see ways of buying it, leasing it or renting it. How about farm houses to rent? Ya gotta live somewhere and if it already in farm country you will start becoming part of the farm community even without buying a farm.

Now that you have a goal, whatever you do, make sure it is towards the goal and eventually you will get there.

[Terri]

I grew up in San Jose, and I was ALSO told that my dream of farming was impossible. Mostly because I was a girl, I am afraid. It was the times that I was born into.

I now live near Kansas City, Kansas on 1 acre, and I have 5 acres farther out.

Let's see, how to get there.

Farming classes will teach you how to farm. With a tractor. I know because I took them. That is not really what you want. I really LIKED! them, but my dreams were more towards farming and yours are more towards homesteading.

If I had had a place like homesteadingtoday to come to, I would have done much better but back then the internet did not exist. I am 54.

Find a source of income that you can salt away for a down payment. It does not matter if you save it or earn it: you need start-up cash. You might try haunting here for penny-pinching ideas. If you can squeeze out enough to set money aside and not touch it you will have made a start. Or do something else: I write for e-how a bit and I am earning $30 a month doing so. That is tiny but I do it in my spare time. Once you have a savings account, you can use odds 'n ends to add to it. A rebate here and a sale on groceries there and the amount will grow.

Speaking of saving money, your garden is an excellent start for 2 reasons: It gives you gardening skill AND it saves you grocery money: set aside the savings for your start-up money.

Start small projects to learn the skills. If you try to learn it all at once it will not work very well because there *IS* a learning curve for each project, so you might as well start with the projects a city boy CAN do in the city! You have to start somewhere, so start with the projects that you are allowed to do. And start now.

Learn to bake. If you cannot eat all of the veggies fresh then freeze them or can them (I freeze them in zip-lock bags but that is only good for 3-6 months). It is hard to care for critters if you do not live with them, but you might consider putting bees next to your garden. Most cities allow them though there will be some restrictions. I am, for example, only allowed 2 hives. I give honey in attractive containers as Christmas gifts, which saves money also. Learn to build. Can you put up an 8 foot by 8 foot greenhouse at your Grandmothers place to extend your season? Most cities do not demand a building permit for something that small and it will give you building experience. Look on-line for plans.

In 5 years time you will have a little money and some of the skills you will need. The recession will (maybe) be over. You will have some money in the bank.

Find a couple of places where you would like to live and apply for work there. If and when you get a job, move into a RENTED place. That will give you time to look around and see which areas suit you best. One good way to do this is to drive from your work out into the country, and see where you end up after you have driven a reasonable commut time. That is a great place to homestead hunt as it is convenient to work, and because the farther from town you go the cheaper the land will be.

And come here. Come here a LOT! If a place like this had been available to me I would have gotten situated 10 years earlier!

[DutchAcres]

I am your age. Here are my recommendations. I did more than what you'll see below, but these are what I consider to be the most significant contributors to my "success."

1. Read everything you can about personal finance. Some great books include [I]The Richest Man in Babylon, Personal Finance for Dummies, Mutual Funds for Dummies, The Millionaire Mind[I].
2. Read everything you can about money-making farming enterprises. Some great books include Pastured Poultry Profits, You can Farm and Salad Bar Beef. Read the Storey guids to raising chickens and rabbits.
3. Trade your labor for experience. Find a feed store and put up an index card that says "Will work for free . . . Need help on your farm? I'll trade my hard work just for the experience of learning how to all kinds of farm-related work. I'm strong, healthy and willing. Call Chet at XXX-XXX-XXXX."
4. Find somewhere to start doing something. I guarantee that there is an older person within 5 minutes of where you live who would be willing to let you put in a small garden in return for a few tomatoes. Ask a church pastor if they know anyone who would trade yardwork for a small plot to plant veggies.

When you've done each of these things, especially #1 above, the next steps will be more clear to you. If you have more questions, send PMs to people on this forum who are doing things that interest you right now.

[clovis]

Welcome to the forum.

I can't really add too much to what has already been posted.

Do not be intimidated by the fact that you are getting old. In reality, you are just a kid. And it is never too late to start.

Start small, but consider being intense in what you do. Getting into gardening? Learn everything you can, and learn from your mistakes. Going to plant tomatoes? Start them from seed, not only to save the money, but to learn all you can.

There is also the possibility of renting or using for free a plot of ground to enlarge your garden. There is unused land everywhere you look, and alot of folks would let you use it for free. Maybe learn to grow a big garden, and sell what you can for your future homestead?

Like Beeman said, there are 24 hours in a day. I just talked to a guy that made $5000 selling tomato and marigold starts, and he sells his stuff waaaaaay to cheap, and is located in the middle of nowhere. He makes another $3000 selling veggies from the garden.

So, if you worked real hard could you make another $5000 a year doing what you love? In 5 years, you would have $25,000, and know alot about your business.

Just my 2 cents.

[Big Dave]

Acesup Welcome,
There is a place in Elm Mott Texas that teaches the skills you want. I do not believe they charge a fee? I do not recall the name of it right now PM and I will help ya get it. Master gardener program will teach the basics of soil ( got it right CF) and plant stucture plus putting you in touch with a lot of folks with hands on experience. Contact the Dallas county extention agent and they can guide you to the MG program and other things you were mislead about.All these folks are giving good sound advise.

[stanb999]

Here is how we did it. At 27 I was making 11 an hour and living in an apartment. Barely getting by. Didn't have a pot or a window. Had just got married. We didn't live in the city by any real definition. But we had moved from north Jersey(super Burb./Megaopolis.) to Central PA 2 years before.. We wanted a house and land. Hard even to imagine that it was even possible.


The first big huge heavy step is to get the heck out of the city and burbs. You can't live simply there. Period. You will read stories of some folks in their Urban environment "homesteading". They are mostly the wealthy or folks with more money and time than you will have. You are struggling just to get by. I know the feeling. If you decide to make the leap... Everyone you know will say how your gonna starve and be poor. This is what we had to deal with. The next real deal is you will make less money than everyone you knew from the "city". This really stinks at first. But you will get ahead in time. . Your lifestyle will be cheaper.

Next get a job that gives you a career. Stop with the playing in dead end jobs. You want a job that works in a rural place that travel is paid. Like outside sales, heavy construction, professional services, truck driver these are just a few. There are a bunch of employment opportunities That pay for travel and where your "base" of operations is your house. You will get paid to drive the 1-2 hours your away from "work". When the time comes... Pick your land and buy it. It may require you doing more... Most likely you will have to do a lot more. For instance we had to buy a house in town for our starter home. It was small, in bad shape, and needed a ton of work. But we paid little for it, did a ton of work to it ourselves, And sold it for a nice "profit". We used this to profit to buy our homestead.


We now have 23 acres, several out buildings, livestock, a large garden, Etc. Just to give you the time frame so you don't use the excuse of thinking it's not possible to do today. I was 30 when we bought the first house and 33 when we bought the homestead. Now I'm 36. So you can do it..... Just get your head in the game and get'er done.


Edited to add.
OH, and one more BIG thing.... Homesteading is more work than you ever did in your life. But it is a labor of love.

[Alice In TX/MO]

You may want to look farther south in Texas, where winter isn't an issue. You will have to be able to tolerate the heat, however.

Between San Antonio and Victoria there is some beautiful country that doesn't get much true winter weather. Only the occasional frost and very rarely snow.

Victoria is big enough to have a college, a diverse economy, and a good variety of employment opportunities. Or, you could live closer to San Antonio and have a bigger city to commute to for employment as you build your dream.

All of Texas isn't like the Dallas area.

[Terri]

These sites might interest you: they deal with building sheds. Nice ones.

http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow....7290&GT1=35000

http://realestate.msn.com/article.as...entid=19319504

[ronbre]

i might be the only one here looking at the garden at grandmas?? Would grandma consider letting you live with her and possibly take care of her in her aging years and then possibly give you the home in an inheritance? this might be the way to go..discuss your dream with her and see if she might have a similar dream for YOU and her future?

even if her place isn't the ideal answer it might be a start

[DutchAcres]

Living with grandma is an excellent idea. At the very least, you are close to a place where you can garden, maybe keep 3 hens and a rabbit or two.

[mnn2501]

You have a college degree, live near Dallas and am only making $10 an hour. I think you need to get off your butt and find a decent paying job. I know people at my company and others with NO degree making $20-$25 an hour in North Dallas (Plano, Richardson, Addison, Carrolton.etc). Heck a good waiter in this area makes more than that.
You want the dream? get out of debt and save some money for land first.
As far as learning what to do; Public libraries are free and you can learn a lot form them, keep up the gardening, talk to people who are already doing what you want to do, see if you can't volunteer into helping them - free, just for the experience, they may think you're nuts at first, but they'll get some help and you'll see if you are really cut out for the life.
You may find out you love it or you may find out you hate it, better to do that before you shell out a big pile of cash for land.