Instead of a concrete slab

[HilltopDaisy]

I posted recently about finishing an Amish built shed, to live in temporarily. The shed is 12x20'. I called my local, trustworthy contractor, and I asked for an estimate on a slab 14x24'. Estimate is $1600. More than I want to spend. He suggested taking 3 6x6x20' pressure treated and tieing them together with 2x6' pressure treated, and filling the space with gravel. The place that sells the sheds says this is ok.

I have standing water everywhere, so heaving is a concern. I really do not want to bring gravel in here if I can help it. Any suggestions?

[Cabin Fever]

There are thousands of old cabins in this neck of the woods that are about the size of the building you're looking into. These cabins are sitting on nothing more than a concrete block or two spaced every 4 to 6 feet around the perimeter of the building. The blocks are simply sitting on the ground. Yes, every few years the cabin will need a minor releveling which consists of jacking one side or the other up a bit and sliding in a piece of 1x8" board on top of the concrete block.

[MELOC]

if the shed has a floor, about the only other thing to do is to set it on concrete piers or blocks with a footing under them. i would opt for the piers. i'm thinking you would need at least 6-8 ...one at each corner and 2 in the middle, but 4 in the middle would be even better. you would need to have the holes augered below the frost line to prevent heaving. you wouldn't need them to be too far above ground, but if you ever move the shed, you have the piers in the way of garden space, lol.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Ok, sounds like yer livin in a swamp, something about that "water standing everywhere" comment leads me to worry a bit. If you have high ground anywhere to put this shed, lay down gravel, lots and lots of gravel, large size #3's would be good, about 2 ft deep, and then lay your 6bys on top of the gravel bed. You will need air flow twixt the floor and the 6 bys to keep moisture issues at bay. In our area gravel runs about 200 bucks a truckload, and that should cover your 12x20 area pretty well.

[texican]

You could avoid the concrete pad or gravel scenario, by just building a floor up off the ground. HD and Lowes (and probably everyone else) sell the concrete blocks with "X" in the top. You can build a deck easily with these. You could lay out a grid, and use 2x6's, then lay plywood on top, screwing it all down. When you weren't needing a 'floor' anymore, you could unscrew the plywood, and use everything again somewhere else.

Slabs are sorta permanent. Gravel would be a chore to remove and use elsewhere.

Reckon if you're ground was mostly level, you could build up a network of pallets, and lay plywood on top for levelness sake.

[tab]

Being in NY you have a lot of concerns if you are going to live in the cabin. Are you heating it? Running water in it? If you want it permanent, Meloc is sounding about right for living quarters in this "neck of the woods" with any kind of plumbing or heating involved.

[rambler]

As Cabin says, for a building that size, it should be ridgid enough to float on whatever blocks or piers you put under it. Perhaps it will rise or fall an inch or 2 as the ground freezes and thaws, but - the whole thing should, it should not break or bend.

If it as wet as you say, I'd just be worried about the wetness. I'd really like the gravel to get up a bit out of the wetness? That should only be one load of gravel, $125 or so????

I just had 4 new block footings put in on my grainery, was built in 1909 with rock & limestone slurry (almost' concrete mix. The concrete crumbled, don't think they used the right materials back then. Anyhow, the old setup was about 6 inches in the dirt, here in Minnesota, and the 35 by 20 building stood fine for the first 100 years. That's with those 4 footings missing for the past 20 years, and yea I still was putting grain in it.

The concrete expert told me the new footings on this type of building need to be in the ground - 6 inches minimum. Not much changed in 100 years....

Now, you likely wouldn't get to _live_ in such a building 'here' in southern MN where they regulate housing a lot, but you should be able to get by with a pretty simple footing like everyone describes as far as it working technically. Your house - er shed - will just rise & fall a little bit with the frost, but no problem.

The gravel would help you tho to let the water stay away - I'm not sure about filling the 2x wood - I'd prefer using the gravel to make a 3-4 inch mound to set the X blocks others mentioned, or the pressure treated wood directly onto. Not fill between the wood, but set the wood onto. I would not want to set the wood right on the 'wet dirt' if I understand you. The blocks, or better a bit of gravel and the blocks, would be gooder. The blocks tend to settle down into the dirt and level themselves out.

Many mobil homes have been sitting on regular old concrete blocks around here too - back when you could put mobile homes on a farm. It works.

--->Paul

[HilltopDaisy]

My property has a lot of natural springs, the water is close to the surface, so anywhere there is a fairly level spot will have standing water. I'd like to avoid gravel because I've had it brought in for two other buildings and it ends up everywhere.

My concern is the ground heaving and the doors get off kilter and then I can't open the doors.

[coup]

if you are talking 6 months time,i would level, put a couple layers of plastic down,a coupel inchs of sand and then fabric that they put down before rock-gravel and go with that...

[HilltopDaisy]

OK, I'm picturing holes dug 4' deep, with pressure treated posts inserted and concrete poured in around them. Then tied together with 2x6 pressure treated to form a base. Or skip the boards altogether and just use concrete piers?

[fordy]

Originally Posted by HilltopDaisy

OK, I'm picturing holes dug 4' deep, with pressure treated posts inserted and concrete poured in around them. Then tied together with 2x6 pressure treated to form a base. Or skip the boards altogether and just use concrete piers?

...............Some areas here in north central texas have lots of cracked foundations due to clay , the moisture content varies greatly and it expands and contracts . So , contractors usually install piers in a grid scattered out around and below the foundation . Once these have been installed they then formup and pour the foundation on Top of the piers , they are Not connected Too the foundation , rather it is allowed to Float on top of them so it can move slightly if necessary . , fordy

[MushCreek]

The best piers would be bell foot concrete, which is to say the bottom of the pier flares out considerably. This does two things- It provides a larger base to distribute the weight, and it prevents the ground from lifting the piers. If the ground freezes tight to the pier, the frost heaves underneath will actually jack the piers out of the ground over time. They make special forms for this purpose- Big Foot (?) or something like that. www.bigfootsystems.com

[anniew]

Don't forget to insulate the floor for both temperature and condensation. My house (actually build as a garage, then converted by a former owner--and not well at that) is on a slab. It is freezing in the winter, and in the summer, there is condensation, which is visible on a vinyl floor area, and musty smelling in a rugged area...probably mold...

[o&itw]

If this is just a temporary unit, follow Cabin's advice. First of all it is easy, quick and inexpensive. Secondly, you can do it on a sloped place and the standing water wouldn't be a problem. Untill very recently, when people started pouring a foundation pier, there were umpteen million mobile homes in this country set up just this way, most stilll are. If you level a few square feet under each temporary pier, lay a couple of four inch concrete blocks on edge then put a block upright. If you are on a side farther down the slope, one adds a 2" or 4' or full 8' block to get the level close. One can buy a bundle of flat hardwood wedges to do the "fine" leveling. Sure the ground will heave when it freezes, but all the piers will heave the same amount.

It is cheap, it is easy, and in a couple of years when you get your home built, you can move the shed any place you want with no chunks of concrete burried in the ground. Most every homesteader moving onto a piece of land with no house, either builds a permanent pole barn and sections off a place to live in or puts in a temporary cabin or mobile home which can be moved later.

A shed is going to be cold in a New York winter... so you are going to have to do a lot of insulating..... why not just buy an old run down mobile home, they can often be bought for a song, and a mover will set them up for you.

[HilltopDaisy]

Originally Posted by o&itw

If this is just a temporary unit, follow Cabin's advice. First of all it is easy, quick and inexpensive. Secondly, you can do it on a sloped place and the standing water wouldn't be a problem. Untill very recently, when people started pouring a foundation pier, there were umpteen million mobile homes in this country set up just this way, most stilll are. If you level a few square feet under each temporary pier, lay a couple of four inch concrete blocks on edge then put a block upright. If you are on a side farther down the slope, one adds a 2" or 4' or full 8' block to get the level close. One can buy a bundle of flat hardwood wedges to do the "fine" leveling. Sure the ground will heave when it freezes, but all the piers will heave the same amount.

It is cheap, it is easy, and in a couple of years when you get your home built, you can move the shed any place you want with no chunks of concrete burried in the ground. Most every homesteader moving onto a piece of land with no house, either builds a permanent pole barn and sections off a place to live in or puts in a temporary cabin or mobile home which can be moved later.

A shed is going to be cold in a New York winter... so you are going to have to do a lot of insulating..... why not just buy an old run down mobile home, they can often be bought for a song, and a mover will set them up for you.

Because I've been living in an old run down mobile home here for the past 7 years. I spend over $2200 a year to heat it, and I freeze my fanny off all winter anyway. I'm sick of dealing with broken pipes, and electrical issues, and leaks, and windows that don't open, etc. I'll be better off in a smaller space, that's NEW. I can insulate it, no problem. I have an existing well, septic, and power.

[MELOC]

what was the temporary nature of this unit? i know you talked about it in another thread. i'm just wondering what the future use of the land under the building might be.

[HilltopDaisy]

Originally Posted by MELOC

what was the temporary nature of this unit? i know you talked about it in another thread. i'm just wondering what the future use of the land under the building might be.

MELOC, temporary because I don't think I could live in 240 sq ft forever. The plan is to live in the "cabin" but continue to use the old trailer for many things, including storage, until I can afford to either build or purchase a bigger structure of some sort. Future use of the land? I just know that I don't want to dump tons of gravel here. I could leave the cabin where it is, or not.

I do like the idea of simply setting it on concrete blocks, sure would cost a lot less than some other ideas, and it would be easy to dismantle at a later date.

I can't deal with the thought of another winter in this trailer.....

[HilltopDaisy]

I just found a site that showed pics of the precast piers. It said to put them on a flat rock rather than the ground.

http://www.small-cabin.com/small-cab...oundation.html

[AngieM2]

Daisy
Is this something like you are having? This is on temporary wood slabs, but sancraft had it moved and put on the normal concrete blocks to raise it up about 6 to 8 inches.

If you did that, and then could put something around it like a mobile home skirting to help keep the floor warmer in the winter, it might be better.

Also, this photo was taken when very first delivered and not completely set up and fixed up. She and the girls have moved to a house about 2 years or so ago.

Your description of your proposed little house, reminded me of this.



Angie

[fordy]

Originally Posted by HilltopDaisy

I posted recently about finishing an Amish built shed, to live in temporarily. The shed is 12x20'. I called my local, trustworthy contractor, and I asked for an estimate on a slab 14x24'. Estimate is $1600. More than I want to spend. He suggested taking 3 6x6x20' pressure treated and tieing them together with 2x6' pressure treated, and filling the space with gravel. The place that sells the sheds says this is ok.

I have standing water everywhere, so heaving is a concern. I really do not want to bring gravel in here if I can help it. Any suggestions?

..........Your winter(s) are compelling you to prepare your "Temporary" shelter with the same level of insulation , plumbing , etc . that a Regular livable home or cabin would require . You've got a conflict between what is Temporary and what is your Home . I believe I'd just locate this structure on the Spot where your home will be and build it with the idea that it is the first Phase of a Larger structure and configure it accordingly ! You'll spend some extra$ up front , but in the scheme of things you'll be far ahead of the game by treating this as Phase I of the erection of a permanent home on your property . , fordy