Older cistern for non-drinking use - any concerns?

[rstl99]

Hi all,
The country property I just bought has a concrete cistern in the basement. The basement floor is largely bedrock (Canadian Shield), and a corner of the concrete foundation has been extended inwards to create a roughly 5 feet(wide) by 10 feet (long) by 4.5 feet (high) cistern. There is no top on the cistern, and one can see the level of water in it by leaning over the top of it, below the floor joists above. The system dates from the early 1950's, and has been used over the years to supply non-drinking water (an outside drilled well supplies the drinking water).

Water is diverted into the cistern by the gutter system from a steel roof (there is a manual diverter to divert the first bit of water from a rainfall). At the end of the inlet hose, a nylon stocking is placed to trap any bits coming through, and is replaced a few times annually. Similarly, on the outlet hose, another nylon stocking is placed, to trap material before it comes into the pump, then the pressure tank, and into the hot water tank and house plumbing.

Water is drained from the cistern in the Fall (I live in Canada) and water is diverted back into the cistern starting in late Spring. It's allowed to fill 1/2 or 3/4, depending on how much water is used for non-drinking purposes (sinks, toilet, shower).

Question: do I need to have any concerns about the quality of the water in the cistern (ie bacteria presence) if it's not going to be used for any drinking? It will be used to wash hands, take showers, flush the toilet, and do a bit of laundry from time to time. Should I consider adding some chlorine to it from time to time?

[big rockpile]

I wouldn't worry about it.Might have Small Critters die in it,but I've seen this and people using it for drinking.

big rockpile

[Gary in ohio]

I would dump in some clorox then drain the cistern, power wash the gunk out then let it refill.

I cleaned mine out a number of years ago, Its just a garden/yard watering system but I found a number of dead critter bones in the tank

[fordson major]

not a good idea too use it ! they do make good storage when ya pop a hole in the side.

[littlebitfarm]

I would dump a little bleach in there every once in awhile. No reason to see how much bacteria you can grow in there.

Kathie

[rstl99]

I saw my empty cistern this Spring when I was looking over the place before buying it, and it looked fairly clean. The bottom of it is basically bedrock, and then it has the concrete sides. The previous owner indicated getting in there and cleaning it in the Fall, so I will continue that practice. In the meantime, I'll add a bit of unscented bleach in there to keep microscopic critters at bay, given that I'll be using the water for washing and showering.

Re: the advice not to use it, I happen to think that a cistern is a cool thing, low-tech way of using water and conserving well water. Part of the charm of this seasonal country house, a combination of modern amenities (electricity, phone) and older technologies (cistern, hand-pump well).

Cheers!

[beowoulf90]

We use ours only for watering the plants.. It is filled from the spouting and thus contains all kinds of tree debris and such... It has been here for well over 100 years and I've never seen it fill up, so smewhere there is an overflow or it seaps into the surrounding ground..

[fordson major]

Originally Posted by rstl99

Re: the advice not to use it, I happen to think that a cistern is a cool thing, low-tech way of using water and conserving well water. Part of the charm of this seasonal country house, a combination of modern amenities (electricity, phone) and older technologies (cistern, hand-pump well).

Cheers!

thing is with a well you will be putting potable water through the same system the non potable water from your cistern runs through! also the possibility of back feeding your well with non potable water. if it were a totally separate system that just fed the toilet and a tap for watering the garden, go for it! we had a similar system here on the farm when we moved here almost 40 years ago, can still remember the stomach cramps!
oh, by the way if this is the place you were talking about in another post, watch out for snakes! there is a water snake up that way (and down too foley mountain!) is about 4 feet long and loves dark, wet places like that!

also test your well!! test bottles are available at the municipal office of your residence! (free!!!!!)

[rambler]

Now I understand Ford Major's concern.

My farm house has had the cistern/rainwater in use since it was built, 1926, through the present. Works well. Guess the folks cleaned it out once in that time.

The drinking water is all plumbed seperate, there is zero chance of cross contamination. We end up with 3 pipes running to the bathrooms/ kitchen. Drinking & toilet flushing; cold wash, and hot wash. You don't drink the cistern water.

Seperate pumps, seperate systems. If one or the other breaks down, I can at least get a little water to flush a toilet, or wash something. Can get a bucket of water.

Been a very good system. I wonder why you would not use it over winter? I guess your setup is too small. If one is frugal with wash water, mine will last all winter long. It's about hum - never measured it - 7 feet high (useable - must be 9 foot high 'room', it's recessed 2 feet deeper than the rest of the basement) by 12 by 20 feet? Something like that.

--->Paul

[Michael W. Smith]

At the very least, I would at least want to pump it out just to see what lays in the bottom.

Being opened, I would imagine many a bug, insect, or rodent has found themselves an unhappy swimmer in it and unable to get out. Being open dust and such would eventually fall in and chances are there is a nice 1" of buildup on the bottom. While the pump probably doesn't touch bottom, being new to the place, I would like to pump it out, clean it out properly, and let it refill again.

I would also probably add a lid to at least keep things from falling down in it and I would also probably put a bit of bleach in it a couple times a year as well. As has been said - no use in growing "things" you really don't need.

Who knows, perhaps the previous owner left a hidden cache of gold down there . . . . . . . . or in my morbid mind, there is a body down there waiting to be discovered as to "who is it?, who killed them?"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rstl99]

Originally Posted by ford major

thing is with a well you will be putting potable water through the same system the non potable water from your cistern runs through! also the possibility of back feeding your well with non potable water. if it were a totally separate system that just fed the toilet and a tap for watering the garden, go for it!

No, the cistern and well do not share any system component. The cistern feeds a water pump, pressure tank, hot water heater, and the house plumbing (to kitchen and bathroom taps, toilet and shower). All of those are fed by the cistern, and none of it is meant for consumption. The drilled well consists of a hand pump outside the house. For the short stays that I do (weekends and such) I generally lug a container of city water, which I use for cooking, drinking (the well water has been tested and is free of bacteria, but has a metallic taste - I will use it for washing dishes).

That being the case, even for washing hands in the sinks and taking showers, I want to ensure that the cistern water is relatively clean, hence the intent to treat it with a bit of bleach.

Originally Posted by rambler

Now I understand Ford Major's concern.

My farm house has had the cistern/rainwater in use since it was built, 1926, through the present. Works well. Guess the folks cleaned it out once in that time.
...
Been a very good system. I wonder why you would not use it over winter? I guess your setup is too small. If one is frugal with wash water, mine will last all winter long.
--->Paul

I don't live at this place year round, just occasional and seasonal use, so I won't be going very frequently during the winter. This being Canada, winters are cold and things freeze, hence the practice is to drain and treat with antifreeze all the house plumbing, and drain the cistern. An advantage of that is that the cistern can be cleaned in the Fall or Spring, before refilling it again.

Originally Posted by Michael W. Smith

At the very least, I would at least want to pump it out just to see what lays in the bottom.

Being opened, I would imagine many a bug, insect, or rodent has found themselves an unhappy swimmer in it and unable to get out. Being open dust and such would eventually fall in and chances are there is a nice 1" of buildup on the bottom. While the pump probably doesn't touch bottom, being new to the place, I would like to pump it out, clean it out properly, and let it refill again.

I would also probably add a lid to at least keep things from falling down in it and I would also probably put a bit of bleach in it a couple times a year as well. As has been said - no use in growing "things" you really don't need.

Who knows, perhaps the previous owner left a hidden cache of gold down there . . . . . . . . or in my morbid mind, there is a body down there waiting to be discovered as to "who is it?, who killed them?"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I indicated, I had a look at the empty cistern when I was looking at the place a couple of months ago, and it was clean. So I know the condition it was in before it was filled up. I will plan on putting a cover of some sort on it, for the reasons indicated. I also plan on improving the system which diverts roof rainwater to it through the gutters, by maybe adding some kind of filter along the way. Gold treasure, I wish!!!!

Thanks for all the thoughts, folks!!

Cheers!

[uncle Will in In.]

You have a drilled well. Since the cistern is not used all winter, I have to assume that water from the well is used through the winter. Why is it nessesary to have to use the cistern in the household plumbing during the summer?? Isn't the well also run through the same plumbing all winter. Every drop of rain has a particle of dust or other airborne corruption in it. using the cistern for outside water for livestock or watering the garden seems like a doable thing. I would never run it through the household plumbing when it is not absolutely nessesary. <>UNK

[DQ]

Originally Posted by Michael W. Smith

Who knows, perhaps the previous owner left a hidden cache of gold down there . . . . . . . . or in my morbid mind, there is a body down there waiting to be discovered as to "who is it?, who killed them?"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats where they found my uncles girlfriend after she went picking blackberries and never came back. they supposedly didn't know if she died from the fall in or the toxic fumes (decaying stuff fuming???).

make sure it is safe especially for wayward children please.

[Pink_Carnation]

If the cistern feeds the bathroom sinks that means you should brush your teeth in a different area. Other than that I would think that with a little periodic testing for critters and more attention to your skin when you first start using it should be enough.

[rstl99]

Originally Posted by Pink_Carnation

If the cistern feeds the bathroom sinks that means you should brush your teeth in a different area. Other than that I would think that with a little periodic testing for critters and more attention to your skin when you first start using it should be enough.

Thanks Pink, indeed I have placed signs above the sinks indicating that the tapwater is only to be used for washing hands. Since my use of the country place will only be occasional (weekends, the odd week, and seldomly during winter) my plan is to bring in a large jug of city water for drinking, brushing teeth, etc. The well water can also be used (it was analysed and declared clear of coliforms etc.) but it's mineral-rich so not palatable to city palates of people accompanying me (kids).

I can only assume that the well capacity isn't great enough to supply the water to the house in its entirety, which is why the cistern was built into the design of the house.

[Micahn]

As a retired plumber here is my take on this topic.
The water should not be used in a sink or tub as some of it is going to go into your mouth no matter how hard you try not to.
Now for flushing the WC it is fine and it would be just fine for washing cloths and such. But in a sink of any kind or a tub or shower someone will get it in their mouths.

Now are they going to get sick from it ? chances are not as long as nothing gets into it and dies or uses the bathroom in it. But in todays world I would not want to take that chance with family or friends.
If you have well water running into the home anyway it should not be that big a deal to hook that up to everything else. Just leave the WC (Water closet aka toilet) hooked up to it.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by rstl99

Thanks Pink, indeed I have placed signs above the sinks indicating that the tapwater is only to be used for washing hands. Since my use of the country place will only be occasional (weekends, the odd week, and seldomly during winter) my plan is to bring in a large jug of city water for drinking, brushing teeth, etc. The well water can also be used (it was analysed and declared clear of coliforms etc.) but it's mineral-rich so not palatable to city palates of people accompanying me (kids).

I can only assume that the well capacity isn't great enough to supply the water to the house in its entirety, which is why the cistern was built into the design of the house.

No one heard of water softeners in the 1920's or 40's or whenever.

You say you have high mineral water - exactly the point of the cistern catching rainwater.

Houses were plumbed with 2 seperate water systems back then. Drinking water & high-use needs came from the well.

'Soft' water for use in washing things came from the cistern. Rainsoft water.

I guess some of you aren't familiar with this setup. Nearly every house in my county was set up that way, and probably 1/2 are still using the dual water system. You folks are setting it up exactly backwards in your mind - the soft cistern water goes to the hot & cold _washing_ taps, and the mineralized hard water from the well goes to the outdoor watering taps, drinking water, toilets, to the barn, and other high-use or drinking water uses.

Kitchen sinks have 3 water valves - hot & cold, and drinking.

No one in my county seems to have died from it. You wash in the soft water, you flush & drink & water things from the hard water.

--->Paul

[rstl99]

Thanks Paul, glad you have cleared up the use of cisterns.

In my house (built in 1952, in a rather isolated little hamlet), they were probably still applying the practices of the 20-40's as you suggest was standard practice in your county, hence the cistern.

Whether the well was plumbed into the house at one time, and separate faucets for hard and soft water, I don't know. The previous owners had some plumbing work done 10 years ago, and presently the well is not connected to the house (it needs to be hand-pumped outside). So the only water connected to the house plumbing (pump, pressure tank, hot water heater, kitchen and bathroom faucets, shower, toilet) is soft, from the cistern. I've put signs at the taps that this water is NOT to be drank.

I may look into re-bringing the well water into the house at some point (I understand that was the case prior to the previous owners installing the handpump outside). But for now, I'll use the system as is, be careful about anything getting into the cistern water (treat it with some bleach now and then), and provide other sources of drinking water (ie. well water, or city water brought in).

Cheers!