How much is enough?

[Nomad]

I have been rethinking my land purchase idea. Since many of you folks have a great deal of homestaeding experience, I have decided to come to you. I have chosen an area to buy in, but what I need is a size. For some reason 5 cares always seems to be the number in my head and that's what I've been searching for. Probably because in some areas if the parcel is 5 acres or larger there are no restrictions on outhouses or composting toilets. But knowing nothing really about what 5 acres means as far as what I can do, I would like some input. Here's what I want to do with what we end up with...living quarters of some sort, a garden that we can grow some food, but not so large that someone old and with health issues can still handle. The oldest daughter has always wanted a horse and I told her if she earns the money to get it as well as the upkeep, she can have one. So I guess some sort of small barn and a corral would be needed. I'd like a few chickens just because I had some as a kid and would like to have some again. Having an egg supply can't be bad. So what would be the minimum for such a place? I'd like there to be trees as well, but they would be added to the minimum acreage. One of the reasons I'm asking is because I saw a parcel yesterday of three acres that had a pond and barn. It caused me to rethink my original plan. I would appreciate any input. No matter how much thought I put into this, I won't have the experience to really know what I'm doing. Thanks.

Nomad

[rambler]

Bigger livestock will throw a wrench in the deal. Three acres is not enough for a house, well, septic, barn, and horse yard/pasture. The pond too???? There are setbacks these days, horse yard, well, septic need to be 100-400 feet away from the pond any more.

It is very hard to have one hosre. One will end up with more than one. One just isn't a good number.

My neighbor has 7 acres, and boards a few horses. I see 10 to 12. That is terribly crowded.

With 2 horses, you can manage on the right 5 acres, but pretty tight.

Three acres would not be legal to have big livestock around here, and perhaps with good reason. You can't get far enough distance between the livestock poop, your poop, the house, and the well. Just not enough space.

Without the horse or cattle size livestock - chickens would be cool on the 3 acres. Big animals need some room. I think you should figure an acre per critter, if you want them to have some exersize and graze & so on.

A house & well & septic & garden will want 2.5 acres I would think.

Five acres would be pretty tight but doable for you with 2 horses.

Just my opinion.

--->Paul

[kritter8888]

I grew up on 2 acres, I had 2 horses (had 3 but it was a crowd) 40 or so chickens, up to 50 rabbits, a few dogs and 9 cats. The only down fall to such little land is that you better have nice neighbors that let you ride on their land ( I did). We made due with what we had and it worked fine for us. If I were to do it again I would require a minimum of 3 ( I perfer much more).

[oz in SC V2.0]

More is always better...

We have 17 acres of wild and bushy land,I know once we get it under control we will run out of space and need more.

Also look and see what acreage you need to get farm exemptions.
If I had known I would have bought more land as in NC you need 20 acres to get the exemptions from what I have read.

TN it is 15 acres.

This will help on taxes but would require some sort of income off the farm.

[7thswan]

If you are not going to grow hay for that horse. Then the 3 acres with pond and barn sound nice. Arround my house I would say 1 acre is my yard. The rest of this 40 ac. is pasture and hay for our cows. In my 1 acre I have bunnies ,pole barn , greenhouse about 20 chickens,the garden 40x80 grape arbors-2 1 white and 1purple, 2 raised beds with strawberrys, rasberry patch w/red and golden, herb bed, blueberry patch,6 apple trees,6cherry,3 plum,4 peach,2 aprocot,2 pear,2hazelnut bushes. Lots of rose bushes and flower beds. And trees/pines. This area I also keep mowed. There is still room for more,( am thinking about specialising in one breed of chickens). My chickens are in a special area now because of predators and they tear my flower beds apart.

[Michael Kawalek]

Hi Nomad
For what you are talking about, I'd say that 5 acres are too small, maybe 10-20 would be better. As you increase the size of your pastures, you can cut your feed purchases because you have more grazing space. Just about any animal will reduce a limited area to bare dirt, so bigger parcels give you more flexiblity. You should divide a bigger acreage into paddocks that you can rotate animals in and out off. Once the feed is mowed down in one paddock, you move the animals to the next. That helps controls weeds because you make the animals eat everything before transfering them, but you get them out before they trample the paddock to dirt. You county agent can help you calculate how much land you'll need in your area per animal.

Do you want a woodlot for firewood? Add at least 10 acres for that. An orchard, another acre. A really productive garden? Another acre. Nobody I know complains their land is too big!
Michael

[WendyW.]

We lived on 5 acres when I was growing up. We had lots of animals and a big garden.

The house was at the front of the property near the road. The areas around the house were used for planting veggies and flowers. The fence lines were great for cucumbers, beans, etc. Further back we had a huge red barn, very large chicken yard, a few cows and horses and at the back edge there were pigs. The property backed up to a gully and then a field so there were no neighbors back there.

There was plenty of room. No one was crowded. Everything was kept neat and tidy and hygenic.

[foxtrapper]

A whole lot depends. Depends on your plans, depends on the type of land, depends on the location, depends on the shape of the lot.

Personally, I'd prefer 2 acres situated in parkland paradise to 10 acres on a highway.

Similarly 3 acres of land well shaped would be a lot more usefull than 20 acres full of culverts and on a lot 10' x 4,000' (I've looked at some like that).

If one dreams of a few chickens and a cow, a few acres does fine. If one envisions raising 10,000 turkeys a year, a few acres isn't so fine.

[Parrothead]

Speaking from a gardening perspective, you can get a whole lot out of a little land. Depends on what your ultimate goal for the garden is. There are lots of books on compact gardening.

[Old Vet]

It all depends on where you are at. In my area 5 acres will get you exemptions on well and septic but not enough to raise a horse. I have seen some land that you can raise a horse on on 1 acre if you don't need to raise hay. I have seen some that a horse will do fine on on 10 acres. In my area it is hills and valleys and a lot of land is not usable for anything but trees. I personally wouldn't limit my search to just 5 acres. The larger the acres the less per acre it will cost. In my area they are subdividing farms to 5 acres to make the most per acre out of it as possible.Buy as much as you can afford and you will be happier with it.

[UUmom2many]

we have just bought 5 acres with no house on it. I guess it depends on what size house you're thinking of, obviously if you want a 4000 sq ft house you'll have less room for gardens and things unless you go down and/or up. The housew'ere building will be around 2k sq ft with an atrium in the center to provide a greenhouse for the winter months.

I wouldn't nix the horse but maybe look at boarding close by or something, maybe brining it to your property for weekend visits or something? I dont' know never had a horse. My girls want them but I'm thinking lessons and volunteering to work for lessons with a local, having them learn riding and so forth.

We're planning on chickens/turkeys, milking goats and possibly some beef cattle garden and an outdoor aquarium for fishing. starting with the garden then starting with the poultry and then after some time getting the livestock a few at a time. Gradually moving in what we want as we have room and time. oh and we'll have a workshop/barn combo for the animals and our crafts/hobbies

[MN Gardener]

I agree with Old Vet, in the area I live in we just bought 40 acres surrounded on 3 sides by county forest for $49,000. I could go 15 miles north of here, closer to town and have to pay $65,000 for 5 acres surrounded by yuppies. Talk to a seasoned real estate professional and see what is out there. I really think 5 acres is too small.

[littlebitfarm]

I would love to have 100 or 1000 acres! I have 15 and it is enough for livestock, gardens, house, and pastures. Now with physical restrictions, I'm glad it isn't more to take care of. Growing up, I rode horses at a stable. They only had 5 acres and usually about 40 horses. That meant the horses were either in stalls or out in a concrete dry lot. There was no grazing and hay was fed every day. Lots of manure to move, everyday. Just depends on what sort of life you want for the critters.

Kathie

[Nomad]

Wow! I never had so many replies so quickly. I probably should have mentioned that we are very limited in funds. I am only working with sellers that accept no or low down payments and monthly payments I can afford. I agree with there can never be too much when it comes to land, unfortunately I can't afford it and never will. We want to buy and start paying now with an eye to moving there in July of 2011. I will be eligible for early Social Security next month and the wife two years later. We need to be able to pay the monthly payment from that, so we are limited in the size of the parcel. I have also located a 10 acre lot with barn for under $200 a month. I may think hard on that one. Of course I haven't seen the barn. A pile of old boards and timbers could be loosely called a barn. Another problem is I can't find anything even slightly close to where we live. That eliminates any spending time improving the place before we actually go. As for a horse or two...that's all on the girls. I just figured they'd buy food. I didn't consider pasture. I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford enough to do the job. I appreciate all of the responses.


Nomad

[whodunit]

We are on 3+ acres which we rent. I believe at least two acres is pasture and the rest has a 1500 sf house with carport, a large shop with a lean-to, front and backyard, garden area, and a small shed.

We have the following livestock and pets: two donkeys, a large milk cow, 30+ chickens (free range), a rabbit, a dog, two cats, two parakeets and 30+- minnows and goldfish in a small garden pond

We will have to buy hay and feed in the winter for the donkeys and the cow, but they have all they can eat right now.

One advantage we have is that we are surrounded by hay ground (also owned by the landlord) and he has graciously offered to allow our animals to graze it after its hayed for free. I have a feeling he may even give us some hay since he mowed the other day and it got rained on several times. IT might not be fit for his cows, but our donkeys would love it.

One idea you might consider, if the owner owns additional land next to the piece you are wanting to buy why not consider asking for a right of first purchase on any adjoining land? That way you could start with the three acres and add some later if warranted (and if its for sale).

[Windy in Kansas]

The horse is the sticking point. Without it and not wanting too much to tend a ½ acre can be a plenty. With the horse 100 acres isn't enough. After all, you are going to ride it somewhere aren't you?

The five acre idea in part probably comes from the book title "Five Acres and Independence" by Kains.

I'm guess I'm just quite opinionated today but to me having and keeping a horse in a small area is even worse than keeping a dog in a run.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

The horse is the sticking point. Without it and not wanting too much to tend a ½ acre can be a plenty. With the horse 100 acres isn't enough. After all, you are going to ride it somewhere aren't you?

The five acre idea in part probably comes from the book title "Five Acres and Independence" by Kains.

I'm guess I'm just quite opinionated today but to me having and keeping a horse in a small area is even worse than keeping a dog in a run.

Actually I don't care about having the horse(s). I don't ride. I had a horse run away with me when I was very young and I'm afraid of them. Quite a statement from a big strong man. (I'm afraid of snakes, too but don't tell anyone) I think it's foolish and wasteful, but if the girls will pay for it themselves I'll try to make room. All I really want is a few chickens, a garden and a front porch for my rocker. And peace and quiet. I want to hear something besides cars and motorcycles for a change. Oh, and I have that book. I started it but I haven't been able to locate it since we moved last year.

Nomad

[Callieslamb]

You need what you can afford. 50 acres won't do you any good if you can't afford the payments. We decided what we could afford and THEN decided what all we could do on it. We obviously can't do everything we would like to do, but we are doing quite a bit.

[Timberline]

Would your daughter consider a miniature horse? She wouldn't be able to ride it, but they are so much fun to drive. Much less feed and space required, almost never need shoes (just kept trimmed), less wormer and so on. She could have a great time taking friends and family members for cart rides.

[Illini]

Hi, Nomad.

I don't know what the perfect size would be - I'm still trying to talk the farmer who has corn and beans in the surrounding fields to sell me more land. I do think, though, that you need to keep an eye on what extra land will do to your property taxes. They just never seem to go down and, unless you have enough land so the government will pay you not to plant it, or enough to get into one of those land conservation programs, you might want to have some income from those extra acres to cover tax increases.

I do agree with you about the peace and quiet