Questions from a homesteading newbie!

[Kraken]

Hello all,
This is my first post on this forum. I have been reading for a while before even signing up and I just love all of the good information here!
We are looking at buying a nice little homestead in Arkansas (we currently live in California) and I have a few questions if folks feel like helping out:

1. One of the properties that we are looking at has a propane tank. Apparently the entire house is on propane. I don't know that much about propane but through reading on the internet, it appears that propane is pretty expensive. Can anyone give me an idea of what it might cost to heat a 2000 square foot house with propane for a month? I realize this is a very general question but are we talking $300 or $3000?

2. What are the biggest challenges for new homesteaders?

3. I grew up in a semi-rural location and have some experience with gardening and raising chickens but I need to brush up on my knowledge. Other than reading the internet, I have purchased the "Encyclopedia of Country Living" and it is just chuck full of info. I am also watching Youtubes and reading forums like this for info. Can anyone recommend any other good books that might be a good resource for me as a newbie?

Thanks to all of you for your help!

Kraken

[||Downhome||]

if you prepay your propane it can be much cheaper.

Every situations different so whats a problem for some may not be an issue for others. Off the top of my head I would say learning to live within your means. So I would say the biggest problems that may apply to everyone would be time and money.
just cause you need a tool dont just run out and buy one new or the most expensive or cheapest.
think pratical think quality yet affordability.
how much use are you going to have for or get out of it.
can you borrow or rent one? If not maybe you could find one used.
of course this does not just apply to tools it could be anything.

you need to set some hard and fast rules as well as goals. track your expenses and moniter your progress. try to have dual purposes for everthing.
you will be rewarded in the long run.

dont expect to be compleatly independent. look at what can be done in your
budjet and time frame. somethings are just less expensive to buy and can give you time to work on other projects. take flour for example. now you can buy wheat pretty inexpensive at certain times of the year you can even buy from certain farmers or even barter for it. those grain mills are not cheap though. how long would it take to pay off a grain mill ?

thats the way you need to think. I just laid out 350 for a new coop and still need a run for it thats going to be another 100 then I need to paint it yet another 50 plus my time. it should pay for its self in the next year with eggs and chicks for the grow out pens and maybe a few sales during chick season. Although I expect many many years of use from it with minimal maintanece.
If I would of had a source of salvageable lumber it could of been free (not my luck) though I had set a budjet of 250 on it I dont feel bad my cousin spent 500 on his ( I think he used teak? ) hes in NH im in MI so I dont know how much the economys differ. he said his was much smaller though. So I belive I made a good investment.


balance everthing to the best of your ability. and keep your eyes on the prize.
Dont take on to many projects or anything that needs you undivided attention. I know most of this is general but you know your situation better then any so just have your wits about you and use good old uncommon ( use to be common) sense.

[Windy in Kansas]

First off, welcome to the forums. Glad you decided to join in. I hope that you will feel free to read, query, offer opinions and information, etc. May your move be a smooth one.

Propane is generally contained as a liquid because of pressurization from it boiling and producing vapor, similar to just what water does however the boiling point if well below zero degree F, something like -43.

For most purposes only the vapor is used and is regulated via a, are you ready?, a regulator. A diaphragm with in it along a needle valve, spring, etc. does the regulating.

Well never mind, bottom line is that it is comparable in cost to other heating methods. This site http://www.fngas.com/calculate.html shows it a little higher but that price is a little higher than is currently in many locations.

For a reasonably well insulated house and judicious use of the fuel along with conservation you could figure the lower end of the prices you posted. Perhaps just ask what the last folk used per month. Being from California it might take awhile for your bodies to adjust to a cooler climate, of course depending upon where you live. You might already be used to cooler temps.

Again, welcome.

[Pat]

When we first moved to Arkansas we had an all propane house also. We went through 3 fillings for our tank that first winter. (we have about 2000 sq feet also.)

The next late spring (when the sale went on for wood burning stoves happened) we bought and installed a new wood burning stove. Now we go through 1/2 to 2/3rds of a tank. (we still have propane stove and water heater). We do use 3 - 4 cord of wood a winter. (I also have a small wood burning stove in my man cave.)

The other warning is be very prepared for cultural shock. Not only moving to the country, but Arkansas is for sure not California.

I totally agree with Downhome about living within your means... trying to buy the tools you need at Estate Sales, being sure you actually need a tool etc.

Pat

[CountryWannabe]

I guess my main advice would be to start slow. You have had a garden and chickens, so that is where I would start. Perhaps sell eggs and maybe home raised meat chickens and/or turkeys/ducks for a little side income. When you are comfortable with that you can expand to other interests. It seems that when people move to the country they want a few of everything, which is just too overwhelming.

Mary

[ronbre]

are you talking HEATING in ARKANSAS ????? didn't now they heated their houses there..Hey I live in the frozen tundra of Michigan and it wouldn't cost me $3,000 a YEAR to heat with propane..let alone a month..you'd be lucky if it cost you $5 all year in Arkansas..

[Sheripoms]

I also think that the culture shock is going to be the hardest thing to contend with unless you are already familiar with the area and people.
When we moved down to Louisiana from Michigan 25 years ago it was Total culture shock. But now I love the slower paced life. Kinda grows on ya.

[Batt]

Originally Posted by Kraken

Hello all,
This is my first post on this forum.

Welcome to the Forum!!

Originally Posted by Kraken

1. One of the properties that we are looking at has a propane tank.

Is it an owned tank or a leased tank? If it is owned then you can shop around to purchase the propane. If it is leased then you have to do business with that particular dealer. Find out about the best time of year to purchase and whether a "level payment plan" is available. That dealer could also tell you how much the previous owner used.

[Maura]

Which is cheaper, electric or propane, can vary by region. As ronbre wrote, you aren't going to use much propane for heating in Arkansas, so it probably isn't worth the money to buy a new el furnace, hot water heater and stove. You probably want a propane cooktop anyway, for when the electricity goes out. Ask your neighbors if the electricity ever goes out (bad storms will knock down wires) and for how long. You might want to think about a generator to keep the well pumping.

[Pat]

As for books, another reference set would be the Fox Fire series... I also like Gene Logdon's books. They aren't a "how to" but more philosophy (an easy example would be allowing the fence row area to grow up to provide food and shelter for wild life).

Pat

[Windy in Kansas]

Originally Posted by ronbre

are you talking HEATING in ARKANSAS ????? didn't now they heated their houses there..Hey I live in the frozen tundra of Michigan and it wouldn't cost me $3,000 a YEAR to heat with propane..let alone a month..you'd be lucky if it cost you $5 all year in Arkansas..

The problem is that most of us aren't used to living in the frozen tundra of Michigan so we require more heat when in Arkansas than you would. If you have ever been to warm sunny Florida you will see a similar example with women wearing heavy fur coats while other visitors are wearing shorts. It all depends on what you get used to and how long it takes for you body to adjust, if it does at all.

I might mention that propane tanks and not filled full as the liquid needs room for the vapor to expand so about 80% full is all they are filled, i.e. a 500 gallon tank would be filled with 400 gallons of liquid.

In reality I would expect a 2,000 square foot house to use at least 2 tankfuls per year.

[Old Vet]

I live in North Central Arkansas near Harrison. I went through 400 gallons per year the first year that I was here and have since bought a wood burning stove and now go through 100 gallons. Propane is going for $1.45 per gallon.

[geo in mi]

For me it would be red clay soil and snakes.

[Old Vet]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

For me it would be red clay soil and snakes.

You can find it in Arkansas but not all together. I have rocks and red clay and some snakes but most of all rocks. You can find good farm land in the south but no red clay. You can find just about anything in
Arkansas. Every thing from Buckshot to sand and rocks you need to see the place for your self before buying anything.

[Kraken]

Wow! Thanks so much for all of the good information everyone! I feel a tiny bit better knowing that there are people here who are friendly with good knowledge. (It helps to feel a little less lonely when trying to educate myself)

I am originally from Arkansas, born and raised and lived there until about 5 years ago but I lived in the city for most of my adult life. My better half has never lived anywhere but Los Angeles so I think that the culture shock will be on that end

California is NOT what I thought it would be and although I didn't expect it to be anything like Arkansas, it was much dirtier, more crowded, and more expensive than I ever expected. Needless to say, I can't wait to get back home!

One of the wonderful things that happened when I moved to California is that I am now financially solvent and will be able to pay cash for the homestead I am looking at and will have zero debt. This was pretty much a dream for me and my better half, to own our own home, and the more we talked about it the more we realized that it wasnt just a home that we wanted, but a HOMESTEAD!

I picked up a pair of rubber boots at Goodwill today for working in the yard as part of my "get rid of the things I wont use and stock up on the things I will use" campaign. We have been trying to pare down our belongings to keep the move as cheap as possible.
So far I have gotten rid of several bags of clothing and shoes and have been making my way through the unnecessary paper and cleaning supplies. Trying to also use up all of the stuff in the freezer.

I am so excited I can't stand it!

[pheasantplucker]

Hey welcome...I suspect that Arkansas would have a fairly mild climate. First thing I'd do is go out and get yourself a wood stove (airtight). You got access to free firewood, you're going to cut your heating expenses way down.

[Callieslamb]

As you have heard - propane prices vary. How much you will use will depend on the age of the house, how it was built, how warm you keep it, etc. We moved to Michigan at the end of this past winter. In 3 months, we haven't used 10% of our propane. We expect to use 1 tank in the winter - that is a 500 gallon tank. Check the records of the house you are buying and see how much propane they used. Shop for price. If the tank you have is leased, you can always have them come and get it and start an account with another company. Remember, a paid-in-full tank of propane can give you the ability withstand weather related emergencies - get a generator that runs on propane so you will have blowers for your furnace.

Is your homestead going to be your family income?
if so, the biggest challenge will be making enough money. You will have great advantage since your homestead will be paid in full! Congratulations!

Don't try to do too many things at once. Don't buy cattle before you have a barn or have your hay bought. Do a lot of research on the animals you want to raise. Folks here are very helpful, but if you bring a calf home and then ask how to feed it - you might get teased just a bit. Same with garden plants.....( but don't worry too much, we all do it from time to time, which is why we can tease).

Having to work a job in town and keep up with the work at home will be a challenge if that is your situation.

Weather will be a challenge.

Balance what you can do with what you need to do. Often, it is better to hire someone and get the job done rather than spend your time learning a once-used skill.

The family is what is most important. It is easy to make the farm work more important than the family - don't forget recreation and fun!

[||Downhome||]

the wood stove is good advice. its even better advice if you have a wood lot on your property and manage it right. woods not cheap if you have to buy it.
and its a sweat equity thing when its free to cheap.

though in more temperate areas I see the supply and demand thing keeping it reasonable.

[Big Dave]

Better half?
Ask the people you are buying it from how much they used.
Also in Arkansas also use wood heat. We used three cords this last year. 1200 square feet.Hope that helps.

[Old Vet]

It depends on where you are as to the price of wood. Here you can get wood for $45 per rick two ricks = 1 Cord. I used about 3 cords of wood to heat my 2000 sq foot house. I also have a wood lot and splitter so I get mine for sweat equity. What part of the state will you be interested in?