another crazy invention: free water heat?

[Paul Wheaton]

Another idea ...

Poop gives off methane, right?

Methane rises, right?

I read that there exists methane digesters such that a typical home can have 75% of the energy needs met from the methane that that house generates. This included heat for lots of things and electricity.

So then I thought that maybe a poor man's technique could be something like in this drawing



So - kinda like what is suggested in the humanure book, but the idea is that it is dry and there is lots of sawdust and the bins might be really big, and it would go for a year of aging before getting used.

But here are some important differences.

The yellow-ish area is supposed to be methane that has risen and has been trapped.

The pipe is kept warm, so air is always rising in it. That keeps the air pressure in the methane/barrel area slightly lower than in the bathroom. Thus making this bathroom SUPERIOR to ANY flush toilet by the convenience and comfort factor: there is far less smell!

Moving along .... the idea is that this system would

1) provide all of the hot water a household would need.

2) Be more eco friendly, and be less hassle than the humanure system.

3) Smell better than a flush system.

4) provide compost

What do you think?

[manfred]

Ya got too much time on your hands.

[Harry Chickpea]

I think that if you could actually get the area to fill with methane you would have a fine rocket powered toilet. Research "gasholders" and inches of water required for safe gas storage.

[65284]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

I think that if you could actually get the area to fill with methane you would have a fine rocket powered toilet. Research "gasholders" and inches of water required for safe gas storage.

Yowza, I agree I sure wouldn't want to be sitting on that contraption when it was lit off.

[Cabin Fever]

Paul, to produce methane the entire contents of your digester has to be anaerobic....think filled with water....no way for oxygen to enter. You'll also need a way to pump the old waste (think sludge or slurry) out of the digester before you add more fresh waste material. Remember that the entire process produces an extremely corrosive enviroment. Lastly, the contents of the digester should be maintained at ~95ºF, so some of the methane that is produced has to be used to heat the digester.

[Big Dave]

UNDER the THUNDER DOME. MAD MAX movie. Guy in England made one small enough to power his car during WWII useing chicken poo.

[Cliff]

Paul I must say I admire people with minds like yours, now i need go back and study your plan and make sense out of it (to my slow, non-engineering brain).
Do you record all your ideas/plans so if you want to go back and work on something again it's all there?
One more question hehe - do drive your wife crazy?
I for one find you inspiring.

[Cliff]

So Paul and CF need to get together to make a marketable product. It's the perfect time for it with the economy the way it is. And you might make a little money at it
Go for it. Have to keep it kinda on the down low at first, the bloodsuckers in the economy won't like it.

[Beef11]

I've been wanting to build a small scale digester for a while myself. The back to basics book has a nice little diagram. I want one that is big enough to handle all of my dog and chicken crap as well as some organic waste. I think a long design is better load from one end and draw from the other end. sludge goes onto the field. what to do with the gas in the summer is a big question for me. Great idea isn't it, waste heats the farm.

[Ross]

Paul find a copy of Mother Earth News book the manual for home made power. Everything in that book is going to be dated, it wasn't complete even when it was new but its an easy read and good introduction to methane production and storage. (and covered (introduced) things like scrubbing out the hydrogren sulfide)

[fordson major]

as CF says paul, there are challenges to over come! big dairy near us is putting in a methane generator this year, they think it will be smooth sailing! having our own resident methane production expert i can tell ya the plant malfunctions at 2 AM! (can hardly wait till the BTO gets tied up running there process!) working out the bugs is not impossible and would be very good for the environment! put back what we took out without all the infrastructure that is normally associated with humans excrement!

[||Downhome||]

BOOM ! nice your thinking though ! our sewage plant is going into methane production to create thier own heat and electricity so they wouldnt like your idea.

our governor and the king of swenden both paid a vist to the county when it was announced.

Digesters dont have to be overly complicated but you really do want some safty options the other thing is fluctuation in gas output and storage of the gas. but ya you do need to tweak the idea a bit.

isnt natural gas like 70% menthane and am I mistaken or cant you use menthane in place of natural gas in appliances? like a natural gas generator
or stove, hotwater tank ,ect.

[SolarGary]

Hi Paul,
Very creative!

Have a look at the methane calculator in this section:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects...ls.htm#Methane

I think that you may have a hard time getting enough methane from a few people to make it worthwhile?

Gary

[ladycat]

LOL that pic is the best laugh I've had so far today! Whether it works or not, it's funny.

[foxygram]

I laughed so hard that everyone in the house came into the office to see what the problem was. Thanks for giving a homebound, depressed lady something to be jolly about.

[paul]

There has been a lot of research into small, family-sized, digesters in India. Do a web search and you should be able to find plans for a cheap one that is made from PVC pipe and uses an tractor-sized innertube for storage.

homesteadpaul

[Harry Chickpea]

Trivia -
Before Mother Earth News got ahold of him, I was working on a re-editing of the book that started it all, with its author Ram Bux Singh. There was a tiny blurb on the book in the Whole Earth Catalog, and I sent away for it and worked on speculation doing the stuff getting it ready for publication, even paying a professional typist with a fancy IBM typewriter to get it ready for offset printing. The original book was printed on thin paper using a letterpress, and had horrible errors that wouldn't fly in the U.S..

Singh came to the U.S., got in contact with a farmer in the state to set up a demo digester, and things went sour. Even TMEN had some negative things to say about what happened there. In the mess, the book project got put on indefinite hold. TMEN had deeper pockets and a faster way to print for a simplified manual than I did. I still have a lot of the original material.

The key issues are carbon nitrogen ratio, breaking up crusts, and temperature. The whole idea got started because Indian women were having to burn dung for cooking fires. Burning it caused eye problems, fly problems, and eliminated a source of fertilizer.

If I had been able to publish and publicize the book, I suspect my life would have taken a different path.

[fantasymaker]

One small flaw.
methane sinks.
.
.
.
.....well at least I think it does in a normal atmosphere.

[Paul Wheaton]

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

One small flaw.
methane sinks.
.
.
.
.....well at least I think it does in a normal atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighter_than_air

[Ross]

I'd be more worried about the hydrogen sulfide, which is corrosive and toxic