Big Brother Alive And Well

[o&itw]

Posted yesterday on Yahoo group "Colony Raising Rabbits" it is to long for one post so I have split it into two.

I'm a vet. My relatives and friends did not die for this!



Purported Listening Session--First of 14
The first USDA National Animal Identification System purported listening session took place on May 14th, 2009 at the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Farm Show Complex. It was scheduled during the busiest time of the year, in the middle of a rainy spring planting and birthing season, yet many took time out of their farming schedules, or took off from work to attend.
Attendees came from Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, New Jersey, Ohio, New York, and one woman even flew in from Oregon to make sure their opposition was recorded. There are very few of these purported listening sessions scheduled around the country, as of the beginning of the session only 7 had been scheduled and posted to the USDA site. The torrential rains which hit us slowed down many of us, and prevented many others from being able to get through at all.
The USDA personnel did not wear badges or name tags, yet attendees signing in were given a folder which included a name tag which said, "Hello, my name is..." One person there felt that if the USDA personnel were not 'tagged', then attendees didn't need 'tagging' either. It would very soon become apparent just who was who. One little girl wrote "NONAIS" instead of her name, her older brother wrote "NOUSDA" on his name tag. He handed it to one of the USDA employees sitting at the press table on his way out at the lunch break, and refused to return for the afternoon 'breakout' session.
Those in attendance were selected by lottery for an opportunity to speak during the morning session, many more numbers were called than there were people present, and yet there was a bit of a verbal scuffle that broke out over one attendee's 1st Amendment Rights. Darol Dickinson of Ohio made a 7 hour drive to attend this listening session, he had preregistered and had received his ticket and had waited patiently for his number to be called up. At one point one gentleman crossed the aisle and handed him his ticket, number 87, which had just been called, and asked Mr. Dickinson to speak for his three minute time segment, as he did not wish to speak.
When Mr. Dickinson stood up before the mikes in the lineup of those whose numbers had been called up, he was accosted by a blonde, suited woman who insisted his number had not been called and he was not going to be allowed to speak. He felt that he had been singled out to be prevented from speaking, as his number, 63, was never called. He showed her that the number in his hand had in fact been called, and stated politely that he had made a 7 hour drive to speak to them. When his turn at the mike came, he began reading his prepared presentation. At 2.5 minutes, per the modus operandi of the day, the USDA moderator informed him that his three minutes were nearly up. He asked that she restart the clock to allow him to finish, as he had his tickets, and thus had three minutes plus another gentleman's three minutes for a total of 6 minutes which he needed in order to finish his presentation.
Things looked bad for him as the USDA officials tried to argue him down, but the crowd spoke out insisting that he be allowed to finish his presentation.
The room was lined on both sides with security guards who had been instructed to be on alert if the blonde woman stood up and approached anyone, and if that person refused her instructions they were to surround them and remove them from the room. All these guards were not sufficient to intimidate those proud farmers and ranchers, the backbone of the nation was in clear evidence on that day. The crowd was a peaceful group of people who clearly had deep religious principles, however they were almost unanimously adamantly opposed to NAIS and determined to make sure that everyone there had their chance to speak. They wanted to hear, and they wanted the nation to hear what Darol Dickinson had to say.
Darol Dickinson received an apology from the moderator, saying she had made a mistake, and he finished his comments. After he sat down, a USDA official spoke up sternly to say that there would be no more ceding of time to anyone else for the rest of the session. Apparently they did not like what he had to say and wanted to make sure that they didn't have to 'listen' to anymore of that sort of thing.
There was a contingent of Amishmen in attendance, and during the breaks one of them was heard to say that they had been told that 90% of the farmers of Pennsylvania had already enrolled in NAIS, and was delighted to hear that in fact that was a lie, as in fact 97-99% of all livestock producers and animal owners are opposed to the system.
The previously voluntary disease control programs have been rolled over into NAIS without notifying the participants that they are now under a 'new international contract', instead of the US Constitution, and what the terms of that contract actually entail. One of the attendees actually entered the comment that her husband had enrolled their property based on erroneous information and without her knowledge or consent. He now regrets that action, and they like many others in their situation, would like to be removed from the program.
Other attendees ranged from mothers with babes in arms, children and young adults who see in this NAIS the death of their future dreams of living close to the land, retired farmers speaking out on behalf of their heirs, producers from across the agricultural industry and a wide spectrum of species interests. Market masters and professionals from many industries with interest in small farms, as well as consumers were in attendance to have their complaints (and the complaints of members of their organizations) against the NAIS entered into the federal record. Some were there to ask where their previous letters opposing the NAIS were recorded, which the USDA personnel had no knowledge and could not answer.
It is a matter of grave concern when isolated populations are deceived into enrolling in a program with such grave conflicts with certain 'inalienable' rights, recognized and guaranteed under our United States Constitution as well as state sovereignty, and many states' own Constitutions.
There were about four or five people there to beg almost piteously for the USDA to immediately implement the mandatory NAIS, however when they stood up at the mike they introduced themselves and named the organization which they were there to represent,.. .each of those organizations have received huge sums of bribe money in the form of "Cooperative Agreements" to promote the mandatory NAIS. Ms. Joyce Bupps from IDAIRY, (over $1 million) The Holstein Association, (also a "Cooperative Agreements" beneficiary) , Dave McIhenny representing Pennsylvania Farm Bureau, and others were there to help try to 'reach a consensus'.
Toward the end of the afternoon breakout session, an 11 year old little girl (from an independent diversified farmstead in south central PA) determinedly held her hand high for a tiring three minutes, before being recognized by one of the facilitators. She stood up to say, after a minute or so of looking for and finding her shy little voice, "I will not participate in NAIS. I have my rights. I have the United States Constitution at my back." The room was silent for a moment, then applause.

[o&itw]

post continued..........

During this session, future USDA listening meetings on NAIS were announced, the woman did not have her list before her, stated that 6 more had been scheduled and was able to name off Jefferson City, MO, NM, Rapid City, South Dakota, and Florida.
Monday, May 18: Pasco, Wash.
Wednesday, May 20: Austin, Texas
Thursday, May 21: Birmingham, Ala.
Friday, May 22: Louisville, Ky.
Wednesday, May 27: Storrs, Conn.
Monday, June 1: Loveland, Colo.
June 9, Jefferson City, MO

Rapid City, SD (June 11)
Albuquerque, NM (June 16)
Riverside, CA (June 18)
Raleigh, NC (June 25)
Jasper, FL (June 27)

Showing up at these sessions is of the utmost importance in order to make sure that they are conducted with integrity. Farmers, ranchers and consumers have been writing, calling and emailing the USDA, state vets, and legislators since the original planning documents were leaked from a secret meeting in Chicago years ago. At one point the USDA called for letters, thousands wrote, yet the USDA officials who were asking for those letters and were present at this first 'listening session', were unable to even remember that they had asked for those letters, let alone what happened to them.
The citizens of this nation have for far too long left the business of politics to the politicians under the mistaken assumption that they were tending to their own business. It has become clear even to children that tending to business includes supervision and redirection of those hired (via our votes) to be our delegates to represent us in the legislative process,...less the local producers as well as our nation, be legislated out of existence. Call up and schedule a face to face meeting with your legislators at both the state and federal levels, (face to face meetings are the most effective method of communicating with your legislators, according to this reporter's own legislators at both state and federal levels.) ...and show up at one or more of these sessions.
The Delphi Technique was utilized at this purported listening session. A google search turns up the information that it is a technique used successfully in other venues and other countries as well as in the US to deal with groups of uneducated people who may have strong emotions and opposing opinions. A facilitator is utilized to try to lead the discussion in smaller "breakout" groups which will later be examined by 'experts' who will pull the comments collected into a cohesive 'consensus'.
Well, there was the consensus of those who had taken money from the USDA to promote NAIS.
And then there was the consensus from the Amishmen, the other religions, the local farmers' markets, and all the other consumers and producers in attendance, ...that the USDA should scrap the program and allow the free market to dictate traceability. Those that wish to enter into international contracts may be free to do so, those that do not sell to those markets would not have to bear the crushing costs of that participation.
The only question that remains is ...was the USDA listening to the consensus among the expert testimonies provided by the farmers, producers, and consumers present at this, the first of 14 scheduled purported listening sessions, or will USDA 'experts', esconsed in their ivory towers far above those of us who live the real life, provide their own version of 'the consensus'?. .."

Laura in PA<zone 6-ish...when it wants to be>

[arabian knight]

Better face the facts NAIS is here and will be here in effect no matter what, this country is Not A democracy and never was and never will be, the Majority does not rule this country. Nor should they.~! My vet is all for it. Should have been in effect a long time ago.

[o&itw]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Better face the facts NAIS is here and will be here in effect no matter what, this country is Not A democracy and never was and never will be, the Majority does not rule this country. Nor should they.~! My vet is all for it. Should have been in effect a long time ago.

True, this country was always meant to be a republic. But now it is turning into an oligarchy.

[Ohiogal]

Those who love the idea of NAIS to line their own pockets, need to face the fact that the majority of the nation does NOT want this program. And that we (independant local producers, pet owners, etc.) will fight until its abolished and more visibility is given to the existing programs that DO WORK if they are enforced.

Its nothing but a surveillance on a free people, and a big tax.

I find it really interesting that the USDA is going through these movements of justifying their surveillance, before they attempt to take our freedoms. I've been reading the comments section online, and fully a 5 to 1 margin exists (I tallied those comments that I read) AGAINST this program.

[uyk7]

Better face the facts NAIS is here and will be here in effect no matter what, this country is Not A democracy and never was and never will be, the Majority does not rule this country. Nor should they.~! My vet is all for it. Should have been in effect a long time ago.

If enough farmers, individuals, etc... ignore NAIS and fight against before forced to participate, it will eventually go away. Problem is, how many people are willing to go to jail or pay fines to do what is right?


.

[Countrystyle]

Thank you for posting this.

[texican]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Those who love the idea of NAIS to line their own pockets, need to face the fact that the majority of the nation does NOT want this program. And that we (independant local producers, pet owners, etc.) will fight until its abolished and more visibility is given to the existing programs that DO WORK if they are enforced.

Its nothing but a surveillance on a free people, and a big tax.

I find it really interesting that the USDA is going through these movements of justifying their surveillance, before they attempt to take our freedoms. I've been reading the comments section online, and fully a 5 to 1 margin exists (I tallied those comments that I read) AGAINST this program.

I think if you polled average Suzy Soccermommus, you'd find she'd overwhelmingly be in favor of being able to track every single bite of food she feeds her family.

I think if you polled average Suzy Homesteaderus, you'd find the opposite.

I may be wrong, but agribiz already has a lot of reg's controlling them. IMHO, if one wants to go into business, follow business rules. If one wants to raise their own food, don't worry about regs. And, certainly don't get on any group that you dislike's 'radar'.... like going to a 'meeting'...

I still contend that if some of the worst case scenario NAIS rules were to be put into place, there'd have to be a new Federal Department created to collect and manage all the data. My tiny farm alone would take a full time NAIS clerk to keep up with all the coming and going of my critters...

[pheasantplucker]

You'd think that the government that is so disorganized, overbudget, counterproductive, and ineffective would recognize that they have already bitten off more than it could chew. Why would they think they should try to assume more responsibility or have the right to make citizens lives more overwhelmed with bureauracracy than it already is...

[foxtrapper]

Originally Posted by pheasantplucker

Why would they think they should try to assume more responsibility or have the right to make citizens lives more overwhelmed with bureauracracy than it already is...

Because that's where power lies.

[Mistoftime]

Our family will not participate in NAIS. This is where we will take our stand, come hell or high water.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Those who love the idea of NAIS to line their own pockets, need to face the fact that the majority of the nation does NOT want this program.

I think if you polled the nation as a whole, you would find about 90-95% favor it.

They already have their cell phone, car, pet, and most any hardgood item (you know that little tag on most electronic & easily stolen items at most all department stores, sets off alarms if their code doesn't match cash register code?) tagged or otherwise nationally ID'ed.

Most all over the road trucks are ID'ed. Can track exactly where they are. Just like most GM vehicles.

Folks want safeguards & tracking of everything.

It is only a very vocal set of growers, typically the smaller growers, who are opposed to this.

You are saying 5-1 of this small group of people doesn't like NAIS - that is not very representitive of the USA at large.

The quote in the first 2 messages suggests it is more about one person wanting to abuse the allotment of speaking, by taking up 2 slots for himself, rather than anything newsworthy about Nais. Kind of sad to see your side is down to squabbling about being able to talk for 6 minutes rather than 3 minutes like everyone else. That does _not_ help your case, not in any way. It paints your side as fringe people, with no real point.

Myself - Nais is just more paperwork, like any govt program. Fine with me if it goes away, less paperwork for me to deal with. Won't make much of a difference either way, doing business is full of paperwork, and govt is reaching a tipping point of requiring more & more paperwork.

How are you going to deal with the upcoming Cap & Trade issues that global warming will bring to raising food for sale?

Or the EPA dust issues?

COOL is also around, something livestock producers need to follow.

Nais is a pretty small deal, really. Less intrusive than the other things I mention.

In 5 years, you will _wish_ Nais is the only small issue you had to deal with!

--->Paul

[Alice In TX/MO]

My goats and I travel between Texas and Missouri. Summer in Missouri, winters in Texas. Granted, that is not the norm.

However, in order to cross state borders, I must have documentation for my goats. A health certificate is required, and all goats must have tattoos or ID tags. The ruse is that it's for control of a disease called scrapies, which is very rare in goats, but they have been lumped in with sheep, who do have it.

If I don't have the paperwork, I will face a fine and possible confiscation of my herd.

It's just a fact.

[uyk7]

IMHO, if one wants to go into business, follow business rules. If one wants to raise their own food, don't worry about regs. And, certainly don't get on any group that you dislike's 'radar'.... like going to a 'meeting'...

I still contend that if some of the worst case scenario NAIS rules were to be put into place, there'd have to be a new Federal Department created to collect and manage all the data. My tiny farm alone would take a full time NAIS clerk to keep up with all the coming and going of my critters...
__________________

As I understand NAIS, it would also apply to the family farm, where the food would be kept on property. If you have some backyard chickens then you would be required to register them.

As far as requiring a "full time NAIS clerk" to monitor your small farm, think again. You would be required to maintain the proper paperwork and if there are mistakes then you would be held liable.

.

[Allen W]

Voluntary NAIS participation in Oklahoma is estimated at 14%. The mad cow scare and ear tag companies with new low demand product, RFID tags, Jump started this ball rolling.

[manfred]

They (NAIS) threaten you with every communication about non-compliance.
How can anyone not be offended?

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by rambler

I think if you polled the nation as a whole, you would find about 90-95% favor it.

They already have their cell phone, car, pet, and most any hardgood item (you know that little tag on most electronic & easily stolen items at most all department stores, sets off alarms if their code doesn't match cash register code?) tagged or otherwise nationally ID'ed.

Most all over the road trucks are ID'ed. Can track exactly where they are. Just like most GM vehicles.

Folks want safeguards & tracking of everything.

It is only a very vocal set of growers, typically the smaller growers, who are opposed to this.

You are saying 5-1 of this small group of people doesn't like NAIS - that is not very representative of the USA at large.

The quote in the first 2 messages suggests it is more about one person wanting to abuse the allotment of speaking, by taking up 2 slots for himself, rather than anything newsworthy about Nais. Kind of sad to see your side is down to squabbling about being able to talk for 6 minutes rather than 3 minutes like everyone else. That does _not_ help your case, not in any way. It paints your side as fringe people, with no real point.

Myself - Nais is just more paperwork, like any govt program. Fine with me if it goes away, less paperwork for me to deal with. Won't make much of a difference either way, doing business is full of paperwork, and govt is reaching a tipping point of requiring more & more paperwork.

How are you going to deal with the upcoming Cap & Trade issues that global warming will bring to raising food for sale?

Or the EPA dust issues?

COOL is also around, something livestock producers need to follow.

Nais is a pretty small deal, really. Less intrusive than the other things I mention.

In 5 years, you will _wish_ Nais is the only small issue you had to deal with!

--->Paul

Very true on all accounts. My Mom won't buy anything that is not USDA Approved. Of course my Dad also worked for the health department as an inspector for a large city in WI. And even he agrees with this program and has said he wished it had been in place years ago.
And for years I worked at a chicken procession plant and had first hand experience with USDA inspectors from the local one to the federal ones. They are NOT the bad guys many of you make them out to be.
And I checked with my landlord before I got this place into the Premises ID Program and he said no bog deal go right ahead. He own a dairy farm and he went to meetings and said no big deal just a extra set of papers to fill out He couldn't find out or see any problems with NAIS at all.

[edcopp]

Not my game. Not part of my plan, thanks anyway.

[tomstractormag]

I was in Harrisburg for this >meeting<.
A few comments,
1) The press release was kinda misleading, you assumed vilsack would be there. He was not.
2) Why have it at such an obscure time?
3) Why wasnt it more widely known there would even be such an event? (I found out by chance on the Lancaster Farming website) There should have been thousands in attendance.
4) The ones in favor were considered by the rest *plants*.
5) There were guards present for the whole event.
Tom

[Sam_Luna]

This is a typical ploy used by government from the Feds on down to local government. They have already made their minds up that they are going to do this, the “meetings” are to allow people to voice their opinion and allow the government (who does not care about your opinion) to be able to say that they had public meetings about the issue.

Anytime I hear or see a notice of a public meeting being held / hosted by government, I know the issue is a done deal. My agency has done the same thing in the past as well.

As Texican has said, your best bet is to stay off their radar as best as possible.

Sam