SS#'s for infant?

[CarolynRenee]

Ok, last baby question (for today, at least!!)......

We decided to not apply for a SS number for our daughter. Of course, we were given flack for it at the get go (hospital, insurance, etc)., but we were able to stick to our guns & go home without a "numbered" baby.

Anyone else able to avoid having their children stamped with the "U.S.A. tracking number" and have you had any difficulties as they grew older?

[cfabe]

I understand the sentiment agianst SS numbers, but I have to ask you, since a SSN is required for almost everything, how are you going to handle that with your new daughter? How will you claim her as a dependent on your taxes? How will you set her up on your health insurance? How will she a drivers license, get a job & pay taxes, etc? Don't take this as an attack agianst you, I'm genuinely curious if you know how these situations can be handled.

[misplaced]

my husband probably knows how to handle these problems, he has 4 unnumbered children, and he is unnumbered himself.
They all seem to have gotten along just fine without one.
I applaud you for standing up against them and refusing to let them number your daughter. I wish I would have had the good sense to do it with my son 18 years ago.
I was still a Lemming back then... minus the Rebel

[RosewoodfarmVA]

My wife hasn't used a SSN in prob. 8 years. I quit using mine for everything but drivers license about 5 years ago. That means no SSN on hospital records, job choices, etc. Sure you get flak from it, and many places won't hire (that's ok, just move on), but that's OK.
We are expecting our first in about a month and intend to get a birth certificate but no SSN. Way we figure it, if our child decides as an adult to get one, it's their choice, and easy to get, but if we get it for him, he stuck as a number in the system forever.

[plowjockey]

What cfabe said.

If she plans on living in America, it's a very good idea.

If your child ever becomes ill enough to reqire SSI assistance, then what?

Don't be silly.

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by RosewoodfarmVA

My wife hasn't used a SSN in prob. 8 years. I quit using mine for everything but drivers license about 5 years ago. That means no SSN on hospital records, job choices, etc. Sure you get flak from it, and many places won't hire (that's ok, just move on), but that's OK.
We are expecting our first in about a month and intend to get a birth certificate but no SSN. Way we figure it, if our child decides as an adult to get one, it's their choice, and easy to get, but if we get it for him, he stuck as a number in the system forever.

Other than the feeling of control, what is the upside of not using or having an SSN?

Do you not put SSI numbers on your tax returns?

[CarolynRenee]

Actually, SS#'s are not required for a lot of things that people automatically think they do. We did our research into what things WERE and were NOT required, such as health insurance. For example, we had to speak with about five different representatives about getting her health insurance, each of them giving incorrect information, until we spoke with someone who actually knew their company's policy (and it did NOT require a SS #). One of the reps actually said, and I quote, "If she doesn't have a SS # then she doesn't exist". It was quite astonishing to hear this, my husbands mouth agape & dazed look in his eyes when she said this. If this is the mindset of most people, then it just reinforces our decision. (We wern't happy about the "non-existant" child comment when it happened, but we both get quite the chuckle out of it now )

As for the tax write-off, we believe our child's identity is worth more than the tax credit we would receive.

As of today, you actually can get a job without a SS number, although some employeers don't know, or don't care to know, how to go about it. Don't worry, we're not in it just to skip taxes, the tax man ALWAYS get's "his" share of our labors.

Drivers license is another story as by the time she's able to drive, laws may have changed.

Our sentiment is that when she's old enough to understand or really "need" a SS number, the decision will be up to her. (besides, the whole point of SS is for giving her a retirmement check, right? Wonder how many more years before that is defunk).

[RosewoodfarmVA]

Tax records can use a 'taxpayer number' or DL number. No SSN is required. You can get a Drivers license without one too, though it's a little more headache.

The primary advantages for not using a SSN:
I'm not a number, I'm a person, and my name and address is a unique identity for ID purposes (no one else that has my name also lives at my address),
SSN in the wrong hands can cause identity theft,
A SSN can be used to create/forge documents that can carry legal repercussions on the person that SSN goes with (similar to identity theft),
Anyone that has access to your SSN can get access to your banking and legal info, etc.
Anyone that has your SSN and a copy of your signature can use your credit card and bank accounts for fraudulous spending, get a DL using your info, and can get you into big time problems using your info to do illegal activities, you of course being the one to have to get hauled off to jail for it!

I have had a SSN since I was little hence I'm not anxious to get rid of it. I use it for legal matters, but never give it out to private parties (stores, phone or electric utilities, hospitals, insurance agents, etc) and usually don't give it to government officials either except those agencies that already have it and have for years (dmv, etc).

I've seen far too many people fall victim to ID fraud and identity theft. I don't want to pass that risk on to my children, but rather am leaving it up to them to decide if they want a SSN when they are adults. I'd rather raise them without one than give them one and later have them regret that I did so.

[BeWise]

CarolynRenee,

Avoiding the religious number was very easy with our children since they were all peacefully born at home.

If the religious ss# is "lawfully" required for everything, then those who say such things should be able to prove it.

Another tracking number that we don't hear much about is the Date of Birth number.

And for the tax deduction cry, what do the scriptures say? The love of money is what?

My very own mother and father in the flesh would love for me to sell out my children for a few dollars. Pathetic.

[Pam6]

I did not need my SS# to get my DL. I did not even need it for a background check that I just had done.

[mamita]

don't you need it for a job? I'm thinking you do. my kids got jobs by age 16, so they would have needed it anyway. as for an infant...no, not a big necessity. however...I'm alllll about taking that tax deduction without guilt. it's my right. also...there was a time when we could stash some money in a child's account without being taxed (they needed the ss# for that), not now...but there was a time. and I feel no guilt for doing that either. we worked hard for our money, so any break we got helped the family in the long run. when my kids went to college, they were known by their ss# on all paperwork. so don't worry about it now, but if your kids plan on working and continuing their education...then it's a necessity no matter if you like it or not. not having kids 'numbered'.....not sure I understand what that means. it's not a big deal.

[HermitJohn]

Rules on drivers license have changed since 9/11. Used to be they would just create a number if you didnt want to use SS#. They still will, but also require you to give your SS# as a security check that you are an American citizen. First time, I transposed two numbers prepared to say it was a senior moment. Fine no hassle. Last time I renewed my license they had a hot line to federal govt data base and transposed number version rejected, not a real number of an actual American citizen. I gave them correct number and it matched data base record so got my license.

I am not thrilled with what social security number has become, but you or rather your kid as an adult will butt their head against a concrete wall over and over if they want to do anything beyond work for under the table cash and drive without a license. Buy real estate, they want your number. Want a bank account they want a social security number. All in name of making sure they get their cut of any money you make but with other less obvious uses I am sure to keep your life in a file in their data bases. You dont need it for insurance or to rent movie videos (yea actually had some clerk ask me for it when I tried to rent a video - told him to keep the movie). But anything you have to do with govt or tax man, you better have an attorney or team of attorneys on retainer to fight several court cases at a time proving you dont constitutionally need it.

[Shygal]

Originally Posted by CarolynRenee

(besides, the whole point of SS is for giving her a retirmement check, right? Wonder how many more years before that is defunk).

Do you understand that the SS check is based on the past 25 years of work history? Which, with no SS number, they will have a big fat 0 for you, regardless of what they take out of your check.

Its not like it used to be, taking the highest years incomes. Its 25 years. And all the years you work without your number being credited = 0 for you

[BeWise]

Let us remember folks, no one can stand behind and blame their actions on "policy" and "obeying orders." Who is it that is asking or demanding a religious ss#? Are you one of them? Does man's "law" require an individual to have a number? If not, who are you to demand a number for service? Most importantly, does God's law require his children to be numbered by man? The answer here is no, so who are you to violate one's faith and obedience to God?

[JHinCA]

Shygal--

Do you actually believe that in 65 or so years when this new born child is eligible for SS there will actually be such a thing?
It will be 16 years until this child even has a job.
Jean

[BeagleMommy]

I never had one until after I had my first job. I survived.

Besides, on my husband's it still says, "not for identification purposes." Mine doesn't since I got a new one when I got married.

Like a lot of things, you can get one later, but not un-get one.

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by plowjockey

What cfabe said.

If she plans on living in America, it's a very good idea.

If your child ever becomes ill enough to reqire SSI assistance, then what?

Don't be silly.

Boy do I agree on that. how silly of some to think as they do in this day in age in America. SS Number is EVERYTHING, getting credit, jobs many many things you do HAVE to have that SS# or no go. Geesh it IS after all Just A Number that is all. Nothing more nothing less, just a number but it means so much in America to have one.

[salmonslayer]

Get one or dont its your choice but like many have said your child will ultimately have to have one. My kids needed passports early on..SSN required. In my state, its unlawful to hire an employee without both an SSN and another form of picture identification (INS requirement) even if its for a job that doesnt pay into the Social Security system (Teachers/State Employees).

If you forgo the tax deduction knock yourself out and let the government have your money; they arent giving you money for your child, they are taking YOUR money that you paid in taxes to fund warfare, ill-conceived social programs, etc...I dont know how that squares up with your religious beliefs but I am curious as to your reasons for letting the government do this.

I am careful with giving out my SSN but with so many things tied to it anymore (you are living in a cave if you think its only for retirement, its a national identity number) it sure seems like this is a battle thats only going to hurt your family with little gain.

[arabian knight]

Right On. about Passports~! Just remember NOW you can't even go into Canada and back in the USA without a PASSPORT~! Passports for ANYONE at anytime to get back into the States. Are now in effect.
So ya maybe not now as an infant but my goodness she WILL be getting one at some point in time or be "Land Locked" Only to the USA. Don't forget that. SO might as well do the a child a favor, get one now.

[hintonlady]

In response to this and your immunization thread:

It is important to follow your convictions and principles, sometimes even at great inconvenience to yourself. It is also wise to choose ones battles very carefully. Standing up and protesting each and every detail will leave you exhausted for the big battles worth waging.

For some having the number mark is obviously a handicap. For others not having one would be. I suggest considering what long term options your children may or may not have by choosing to have or not have said number. It can go either way depending on who you ask.................our society is not set up to live sans the mark.

Are you confident the difficulties that can be faced are something your adult child will be grateful for? If so, no need to ask others.

Are you confident your adult child will look back and be glad for no immunizations? If so, no need to ask others.


We all have our own politics. Being undecided and asking what our opinions are on rearing your children makes you a follower, just of a different "color". Stand up and stay true to YOUR values.