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05/04/09, 01:48 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hill Country, Texas
Posts: 4,649
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Grounding Electric Fence to Utility Power Pole
Can I safely include the Utility pole that brings my power to my house as a ground for my electric fence system??
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05/04/09, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,942
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Yes you can but the power people will rip your ground up if they ever change the pole. 
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05/04/09, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 7,883
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Why would you want to . .?
Suggest a dedicated ground rod right at the unit.
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05/04/09, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hill Country, Texas
Posts: 4,649
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ROCKS - need I say more?? I live on the top of a hill, really part of a dome of Limestone. Fortunately I am on a lower level and have pretty good soil washed down from above, with the above being about 100-150 feet higher than I am at. That said, I still find lots of rock or hard caliche about 18 inches down and 18 inches isn't sufficient for a good ground. Too get the 4x6 posts in deep enough for my barn/garage/shop (big 30x86) I had to use a jack hammer to "dig" the rock for a number of the posts.
I plan to try to drive 4-5 ground roods too, but just want to ensure a good solid ground.
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05/04/09, 09:39 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Zone 7
Posts: 10,559
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It is a bad idea to connect the charger ground to the utility ground. All surges and trash signals from the utility will be sensed by the charger. If you will read the fine print that comes with a charger the recommendation is to be more than 50 feet away from the utility ground.
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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!
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05/04/09, 09:43 PM
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Miniature Horse lover
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Central WI.
Posts: 21,249
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Where is your meter mounted? That should be grounded close to the house I would think. Or where is your circuit breaker box located? That should be a lot easier then going over to the pole.
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05/04/09, 09:46 PM
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Miniature Horse lover
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Central WI.
Posts: 21,249
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Is it possible to get the 1/2 Copper Rod that is 8 foot long and "drive" that in like a steel fence post? Using a fence post driver? That is what I did for a good ground for my electric fencer. They have a sharpened end so maybe driven in to the ground using that fence post driver.
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05/04/09, 10:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Zone 7
Posts: 10,559
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A hammer drill with a chuck large enough to chuck the ground rod is the easiest method to drive a ground rod.
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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!
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05/04/09, 11:52 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: north Alabama
Posts: 10,813
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The ground that is used for utilities serves an entirely different purpose than that of an electric fence. With a utility ground, you want lighting and transient voltages to go not only to the surrounding area but to the earth underneath so that the load is safely dissipated.
For an electric fence, the ground forms the back leg of the circuit, and what you really care about is the surface of the soil. Yeah, you want lightning protection as well, but using a storm guard module takes care of most of that.
For your electric fence you can do what is called a "ground array," which is simply buried bare copper wire extending towards a moist area. You can also increase the soil conductivity by adding salts or even fertilizer. None of this is recognized as "code" for a home ground, but it can work better and be cheaper for something like this.
To directly answer your question, NO, combining a house ground and electric fence ground is not a good idea. However, joining the electrical entrance ground, telephone ground, cable or satellite ground all into a single code approved ground is a fantastic idea, since it minimizes ground loops and the effects of transients that occur only on a phone or cable line.
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05/05/09, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hill Country, Texas
Posts: 4,649
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When I say POWER POLE I mean the pole that the Power Company has their my meter and transformer on. It is 250 feet inside my property and sits beside my fence. Then there is another pole with 2 main breakers on it for the two 200 amp services I have installed (I also have the option of adding a third 200 amp service if I choose) on it. Both of these poles are grounded with a big copper plate that is on the bottom of each pole. My house and shop 200 amp services are grounded to the pole with the main breakers on it.
WHICH CAN I AND WHICH CAN'T I CONNECT TO?? For grounding purposes grounding to them would solve all of my grounding problems as they are each about 8-10 feet down and are quite large.
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05/05/09, 10:07 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 34,220
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Quote:
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WHICH CAN I AND WHICH CAN'T I CONNECT TO??
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Dont connect to the one with the breakers grounded to it.
And keep in mind youll be feeding any lightning strikes on the pole right back to your charger.
If you cant get your ground rods DEEP, put LOTS of them around the perimeter of the fence, and alternate the hot and ground wires on the fence itself
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05/05/09, 10:29 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere along the Rim, Arizona
Posts: 3,100
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My soil is very dry and nonconductive. It doesn't matter how deep I sink my ground or where I put it (I sank it in the septic tank leach field for moisture!) -- the fence never packs much of a whallop.
My solution was to simply attach the ground to the no climb. Any animal that contacts both the fence and the electric wires simultaneously is going to Never Do That Again.
You can also alternate a grounded wire and a hot wire if you're JUST stringing electric. Usually what happens is when the animal puts its head through the fence it gets nailed. (Do not use a continous charge fence for this!)
-- Leva
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05/05/09, 10:29 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,610
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You don't happen to have a lightening rod on a building the fencer can be in? Dad used the lightening rod ground. Sure, the fencer is going to be shot if lightening ever hits, but it's onlyt a few 100 bucks in that remote chance.
I don't know what code is as to using the electrical grounds for anything else - they might frown on such things, I donno.
The problem with combining the utility ground is that you will really mess up your radio & TV signal whenever the fencer shorts out.
Bzzzz. Bzzzz. Bzzzzz.
--->Paul
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05/05/09, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere along the Rim, Arizona
Posts: 3,100
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"Remote chance" depends on where you're at.
My fence has been hit twice in five years, and it's only fencing in half an acre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambler
You don't happen to have a lightening rod on a building the fencer can be in? Dad used the lightening rod ground. Sure, the fencer is going to be shot if lightening ever hits, but it's onlyt a few 100 bucks in that remote chance.
I don't know what code is as to using the electrical grounds for anything else - they might frown on such things, I donno.
The problem with combining the utility ground is that you will really mess up your radio & TV signal whenever the fencer shorts out.
Bzzzz. Bzzzz. Bzzzzz.
--->Paul
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05/05/09, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 7,154
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How about driving a ground rod right beside the pole barn posts that you had jackhammered out to make it possible to put the posts in. I suppose they filled the hole in with concrete. NEVER MIND <>UNK
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05/05/09, 12:08 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 7,883
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On a 197' Met tower I installed I used a back hoe and ran a 100' trench out to one side of the mast . .. .down the one foot of soil to the bed rock . . .layed in #4 bare copper as the ground.
The "rock anchors" were bored in with a big air rig.
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05/05/09, 03:38 PM
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swamper
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agmantoo
It is a bad idea to connect the charger ground to the utility ground. All surges and trash signals from the utility will be sensed by the charger. If you will read the fine print that comes with a charger the recommendation is to be more than 50 feet away from the utility ground.
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Not only that, you get a fault on the utility line that doesn't clear like it should, you may find 4000 volts or so back feeding your house. We had a 26kv fault which wouldn't clear on a sub transmission circuit. A conductor landed on railroad tracks, electrified the tracks 5 miles back into our station Our chain link fences are grounded to a massive underground grid. Current jumped from the tracks to the fence, welding all the chains and locks as it traveled around the fence. The signal relays on the tracks were fried, 26 kv pole conducters sagged onto 4kv pole conductors below it enrgizing them to 26 kv, smoked a 4 kv sub, blew breakers in a 440v pump house next door and really ticked a lot of people off. Relays normally operate when a fault goes at least 3 cycles, but this one had lost dc power to it ,so it never actuated to clear the fault. Rural lines are protected by fuses, but I wouldn't count on them either.
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05/05/09, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: north Alabama
Posts: 10,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jross
Not only that, you get a fault on the utility line that doesn't clear like it should, you may find 4000 volts or so back feeding your house. We had a 26kv fault which wouldn't clear on a sub transmission circuit. A conductor landed on railroad tracks, electrified the tracks 5 miles back into our station Our chain link fences are grounded to a massive underground grid. Current jumped from the tracks to the fence, welding all the chains and locks as it traveled around the fence. The signal relays on the tracks were fried, 26 kv pole conducters sagged onto 4kv pole conductors below it enrgizing them to 26 kv, smoked a 4 kv sub, blew breakers in a 440v pump house next door and really ticked a lot of people off. Relays normally operate when a fault goes at least 3 cycles, but this one had lost dc power to it ,so it never actuated to clear the fault. Rural lines are protected by fuses, but I wouldn't count on them either.
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Oh that is WAY kewl!!!! In the old electric trolley days, there were often patches of ground near bad joints that were frost free all winter. The resistance of the ground heated it.
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05/05/09, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Whiskey Flats(Ft. Worth) , Tx
Posts: 8,749
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................My suggestion would be too try and find a fence builder with a "Bell Tech" digger . They can put a 5 inch hardened steel auger on their digger and dig some holes for a ground every 100 feet or so . Try cutting an 8 foot ground rod into 2-4 foot pieces , fill the holes with pea gravel and dirt and install . Use the large , bottom wire on the fence as a ground wire and bond each , 4 foot ground rod too that wire ; I'm assuming that you're using field fence as opposed too barbed wire . They may even have an auger tip that is smaller than 5 inches , check with your local farm store as they should beable too tell you which fence builder uses a Bell Tech Auger on their tractor . The soil and pea gravel will be loose at first , but it will compact and harden over time , so you'll need to "water" each ground rod during the summer too enhance the "conductive" nature of the soil relative too the grund rods . , fordy
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