New to homesteading a few questions

[RemysMama07]

My DH and I have been talking about homesteading for about five years and have now decided to actually do it. We currently live on 1/2 an acre in the country and we've realized we need more land for our garden, fruit trees, alpacas, goats, sheep, dogs, and chickens. I am currently waiting to hear back on some land in NC/TN, but we also have our eye on 40 acres out in OK. We would prefer NC/TN as it's closer to family, but the prices are a lot cheaper is SE OK.

Okay, here is a list of my questions.
1) How much land do we really need for a small hen house, 20 goats, 20 sheep, 20 alpacas, and a 1/2 acre garden?
2) What are some good books on homesteading, canning, self-sufficiency, etc (please list as many as you would recommend, I'll put them on my Amazon wish list)
3) How can I learn to use a spinning wheel to make yarn from my sheep/alpacas? It would be great if there's a book!
4) What do we need to know or do before we get started that may not be in a book?

Thank you,
Dawn

[sunshinytraci]

My personal all-time favorite book is Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living. Not only is it full of great information and pretty good recipes, it has also served me as an inspiration when times have gotten tough and I'm sick of snow shoveling and barn cleaning.

As far as land for all those animals, that depends on alot of things. If the soil is good and gets decent water, and you plant and maintain properly, your pastures will be richer and you will need less land. If you don't mind feeding hay year round, you can get away with alot less land. Personally, I have 5 horses rotational grazing for 5-6 months or so on about 35+ acres of very weedy and un-irrigated pasture that I have never ever re-seeded or maintained. With that much, they don't get to beat it up too badly and it keeps them in nice condition although they don't get fat. If I would work a little bit (and spend some money of course), my pastures would be much better and I could probably get some hay for winter out of that as well. But as it goes on a homestead, other things have been taking priority the past few years

One very important thing when buying land - if it is raw - make sure you can get power and water there. Especially water. Trucking in water is no fun. I know someone who has had to do that. With all your livestock you plan to have, a good water source is essential. Trying to truck all that in or get it from rain will be a nightmare that will make you miserable. Look out for pesky zoning ordinances as well and if at all possible meet some of the neighbors before you buy. I like most of my neighbors but there is one family I could definately live without; they have caused me alot of trouble and grief.

I wish you guys the best of luck. I think above all - remember to have fun and keep your original values that brought you to homesteading in your mind.

[RemysMama07]

Thank you soo much! I think I'm going to have to re-think how many animals we can raise because 35 acres is out of our price range at this time. I'm currently looking in KY where my husband's friends live because they always speak highly of it.

Thank you soo much for all of your help! I made notes and I will keep these things in mind as we get started!

[Freeholder]

Are you currently gardening and raising any livestock? If not, I would urge you to start out slowly! Do one thing at a time -- one of the biggest mistakes people make is jumping in the deep end and trying to do too much when they first get started. There is a steep learning curve to each different animal, not to mention the time and expense of getting all the necessary facilities and equipment. There is also a steep learning curve to gardening, not to mention the work and time (years) to build up a new garden spot so it will produce well.

There are several books on spinning -- do a search on Amazon, and you should turn up several. Read the comments at the bottom of each page, too -- I've found those to be very helpful in most cases. Also check around your community for a spinning and weaving guild, a group that meets regularly to help one another learn, and to show-and-tell their projects. If it's going to be a while before you get moved, you could get the spinning equipment now, buy some wool from a shepherd, and get started -- you don't have to wait until you have your own sheep (buying wool is a lot less expensive than keeping the sheep!).

I can't give you much of a book list right now because I'm at work; will try to remember once I get home. But look for books by Eliot Coleman and John Jeavons for gardening; Joel Salatin for general farming. Storey publishing has a lot of animal care books that are pretty good. Pat Coleman has written some good books on sheep and goat husbandry, although as she's in Australia not everything applies here (different soils, climate, diseases and pests).

As for how much land you need -- the accepted answer is, get as much land as you can afford to buy. Then tailor your operations to your land. In Tennessee and that vicinity, you could probably keep approximately six sheep or goats per acre (maybe more with intensively managed grazing -- subscribe to the Stockman Grass Farmer magazine, it's excellent). In Oklahoma, it would depend on which part of the state you settle in, as the precipitation varies from one end of the state to the other. In the western end, you'd probably have to use a lower stocking rate, as there's less precipitation to keep the grass growing.

What do you plan to use the goats for? Meat or milk? I'm just thinking, if you plan to raise them for milk, and hope to sell milk, you should check the state laws on selling milk. The Weston A. Price website has a page of state laws where you could check on that if it applies.

Kathleen

[Common Tator]

The first step is to get the land. Good fertile land that will support the animals. Then start SLOW in getting the animals. Don't take on too many critters all at once. You may find that your current numbers are too ambitious for beginners. And, are you going to be breeding the animals? We started our little goat herd with 5 does and a buck. We doubled our flock the first year!

Remember that you will need to feed hay in winter, and with that many animals you will go through LOTS of it!

You will get good information from books, but the best will come from here. Lots of experienced homesteaders that are willing to share their wealth of knowledge. They can help advise on what to look for when buying your animals. If any HT members live near your place you will have ready friends and you can help each other out just like farmers have always done, with a spirit of friendship and cooperation!

Good luck to you, and welcome to homesteading!

[Common Tator]

You might want to visit our Real Estate forum, there are some great properties there!

[Maura]

Have you taken care of livestock before? If not, you are going to want to start with five sheep and see how it goes. Goats are hard to keep fenced in, and alpacas need tall fences. You'll probably use electric fencing. If you can't keep sheep in, you can't keep goats or alpacas in. Not all livestock is created equal, fiberwise. You can get alpacas really cheap, but there is a reason he would be really cheap. A fine fleeced alpaca can cost plenty, but now and in the next year will be good times to buy good animals. Are you going to grow your own hay, or buy it?

When you buy a spinning wheel, it will come with directions on how to use it. I bought a Kromski, and they send you an instructional dvd. If you are buying a used wheel, ask the seller to give you a lesson. Its not hard, and you can visit the fiber forum any time.

As for spinning your own yarn, if you have 60 fiber animals, you will hire someone to shear them (alpacas get shorn every 2 years), then take it all to a fiber mill to have it turned into roving. You'll want the alpaca and mohair blended with wool. It will take you several years to spin one year of roving. The mill will make yarn for you, which you can sell. You can keep the fleece you like best for your own personal spinning. You can also sell the fleece very cheaply on the open market (the shearer can take it), or you can sell it to a woolen mill yourself, especially if it is really nice. You'll have to check the market.

[RemysMama07]

We are currently gardening, but do not have any farm animals yet. I am hoping to get a few chicks soon and when we return from vacation pick up 3 goats. I'm planning on using them for milk and soap, so I will definitely check out that web site you mentioned!

Yes, we do plan to breed, but not for the first year or two so we can be sure we're ready for the extra mouths to feed.

I actually just posted a want ad in the real estate section.

Thank you both!

[RemysMama07]

I personally have not, but my husband has raised sheep and cattle. I've been doing some research and have seen them for $40k, so they're more of a distant dream for now. lol It depends on our land if we can grow it or have to buy.

Great! I'll start looking for a good spinning wheel as soon as I get my sheep. Thank you!

[wyld thang]

1) How much land do we really need for a small hen house, 20 goats, 20 sheep, 20 alpacas, and a 1/2 acre garden?

I think it's good to get as much land as you can possibly get, because you always figure out something else to do with it. It's really good for pasture health and lowers your feed bills if you can rotate pastures. ANd then there's trees for supplying wood for the stove, or timber. ALways check out the neighbors wells--how deep, what the water is like. If everyone has to go down 1000 feet for a dribble of water that sucks. Or if the wells go dry in summer that sucks too. Always get a flow test if there is a well, test the water.
Winter is a good time to go looking for land because then you see what the mud situation is like. Some land may be inaccessible because the road is two feet of mud. or snow.

DOn't rule out the larger land parcels, because often the smaller ones are more popular, and sometimes the larger ones go for less because most people don't want "a lot" of land. Sometimes too, a chunk may be "useless", though the rest of the prop may be perfect.

2) What are some good books on homesteading, canning, self-sufficiency, etc (please list as many as you would recommend, I'll put them on my Amazon wish list)
I learned canning from the Ball blue book, Kerr has their own book.

3) How can I learn to use a spinning wheel to make yarn from my sheep/alpacas? It would be great if there's a book!

I always point people towards a knitting/spinning guild, check in the local yarn store too, great way to make friends. For me spinning was definately a hands on learning thing with a real live teacher.

4) What do we need to know or do before we get started that may not be in a book?

99.99% of real esate agents have no clue about what makes a good country property, how to assess it's good and bad qualities. You will have to be able to figure this out for yourself--just figure on the agent being an idiot. Don't be shy about asking people out and about, either neighbors of the property or in town (ha, it helps if you are dressed like them, ie no stuffy city duds) just about what it's like to live there(wells, weather, crops). Some people will enjoy telling you horror stories to try to scare you away, some will say helpful stuff, some will just say I dunno. We found most folks to be pretty helpful, and we try to be helpful when people ask us(our house must have this 'stop here and ask directions/information" sign on it).

[turtlehead]

When looking at various parcels of land, consider also whether or not the land has utilities and/or access. It will cost you money to put in a road, electric, telephone, drill a well, septic... at the end of the day you might be better off buying the "more expensive" piece of land.

Do you can/freeze/dehydrate your garden produce presently? If not, this is a good time to learn. You'll start getting a feel for how much of each item you'll need to plant in order to feed your family for a year, until the next harvest comes in. You'll also learn how much effort each method takes, the pros and cons of each method, and whether you prefer corn dried, frozen, or canned.

[brody]

I agree - start with what you have ... enough room for gardens - and hens for your own use (and perhaps a pair of sheep or goats if zoing allows) so you learn realistically how to manage all the bits and pieces
we have about a half acre property which we don't homestead but we were saying how easily we could ...
we have 7 apples trees around the edge of the property, a large garden for veggies, a large herb garden, rhubarb, rasberry and asparagus and sunchoke beds
room for hens and rabbits and still an empty corner that would make a small yard for a pair of pigs, sheep or goats

[Old Swampgirl]

Check out everything you can about the land. Like drainage, water table level, do neighbors have goodtwell water?, etc. Your cooperative extension office & staff in the area can be very helpful about what & when to grow crops. Also check out the nearest feed store, esp. to see if they carry the feed you plan to use or a regular basis. A book called the Have More Plan might be helpful to you. Hope you enjoyed your last vacation, cause with all the creatures you plan to raise, you'll sure be home a lot.

[firegirl969]

I can highly recommend Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living, I learned how to milk goats and butcher chickens by reading the directions in her book. Also, if you want to do raised-bed gardening, which will save loads of work and time, look to Mel Batharlamew's (sp) Square Foot Gardening. If you want to use open-pollinated or heirloom seeds and save seed from year to year, look for Seed to Seed. Also, if you are going to milk your goats, you will probably find that you only need a few unless you are going to open a dairy. I've always had 20-30 chickens, so that is a realistic number. I use the Ball Blue Book for canning and the book, Stocking Up. I have heard mentioned on other threads a United Country Realty Company that sells homesteads. They may can offer you some good help. I don't know them personally though.

[geo in mi]

Okay, folks, please allow me to play the devil's advocate for awhile...... These fine people have a "dream" of instant homesteading, with sheep, goats, and alpacas--twenty apiece? They are asking rank beginner questions about such and hope that, since they call it "homesteading", everything will just fall neatly into place? And they are going to do this in an entirely new to them environment where they can only guess if there will be a market for the products for sixty animals which in the non-rural--and maybe even the rural population has anything but a casual interest? Or whether the new land they purchase and are stuck with will support that dream? And that they will have the time, equipment, and capital to care for, feed, water, clean up after, breed, milk, shear, fence in, and market all that stuff? And to to whom? And that meanwhile they will plow, plant, cultivate, water, nurture, keep critters out of, harvest, store, can, and freeze their garden of one half an acre so they will have enough to eat? And maybe even dig a septic, drill a well, and build a house to live in? And, nothing was said about having or needing a day job. Or having children.

Perhaps Moses leading the Isrealites for forty years in the wilderness would have a simpler task. I sincerely wish you all the best of luck, but I do hope you will take plenty of time to develop a very good business plan. Sorry to sound so severe, but I think a good dose of realism never hurts.

[sunshinytraci]

Geo In Mi raises some very fine points. I think we all have a tendency in the beginning to seriously underestimate the amount of time, effort, and most of all money tending animals and gardens take. Livestock tends to suck down cash (the larger the animal the worse they are) at an alarming rate when you don't have any serious plans on how to market their products.

Do ALOT of research. Call the state university cooperative extension service in the places you are thinking of moving to. These guys have been tremendously helpful to me. Test the soil. Calculate the amount of money and work it will take to amend those soils. Find out how much it will cost to seed and maintain your pastures in various locations. Another place I have found this type of information is my local feed store. Not the guys at TSC but from a local guy who has been dealing seed and feed to the local farmers for ages around here. Also, the Department of Agriculture publishes a book on all the agricultural markets state by state. By making year by year comparisons, you can tell whether or not the market is growing. Make lots of phone calls.

Even if you don't plan to make your living from your homestead, you will want to purchase the best possible place you can afford so if you decide to give farming or ranching a go it will be easier on you.

But you know what? People have ran out to the countryside with dreams and no plans and somehow they have made it all work out. However, your chances of success and most of all of happiness will greatly increase the more planning you do.

[Maura]

Geo in MI, that's why I suggested starting with a small flock of sheep. They will still need enough acreage for the sixty animals, if that's what they decide, and 40 acres is doable.

[RemysMama07]

Originally Posted by Old Swampgirl

Check out everything you can about the land. Like drainage, water table level, do neighbors have goodtwell water?, etc. Your cooperative extension office & staff in the area can be very helpful about what & when to grow crops. Also check out the nearest feed store, esp. to see if they carry the feed you plan to use or a regular basis. A book called the Have More Plan might be helpful to you. Hope you enjoyed your last vacation, cause with all the creatures you plan to raise, you'll sure be home a lot.

Will do! Thanks.

Originally Posted by firegirl969

I can highly recommend Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living, I learned how to milk goats and butcher chickens by reading the directions in her book. Also, if you want to do raised-bed gardening, which will save loads of work and time, look to Mel Batharlamew's (sp) Square Foot Gardening. If you want to use open-pollinated or heirloom seeds and save seed from year to year, look for Seed to Seed. Also, if you are going to milk your goats, you will probably find that you only need a few unless you are going to open a dairy. I've always had 20-30 chickens, so that is a realistic number. I use the Ball Blue Book for canning and the book, Stocking Up. I have heard mentioned on other threads a United Country Realty Company that sells homesteads. They may can offer you some good help. I don't know them personally though.

I have that book at the top of my list. We do a raised bed garden now, I love it! We got a lot of good veggies out of it last year. Thanks.

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Okay, folks, please allow me to play the devil's advocate for awhile...... These fine people have a "dream" of instant homesteading, with sheep, goats, and alpacas--twenty apiece? They are asking rank beginner questions about such and hope that, since they call it "homesteading", everything will just fall neatly into place? And they are going to do this in an entirely new to them environment where they can only guess if there will be a market for the products for sixty animals which in the non-rural--and maybe even the rural population has anything but a casual interest? Or whether the new land they purchase and are stuck with will support that dream? And that they will have the time, equipment, and capital to care for, feed, water, clean up after, breed, milk, shear, fence in, and market all that stuff? And to to whom? And that meanwhile they will plow, plant, cultivate, water, nurture, keep critters out of, harvest, store, can, and freeze their garden of one half an acre so they will have enough to eat? And maybe even dig a septic, drill a well, and build a house to live in? And, nothing was said about having or needing a day job. Or having children.

Perhaps Moses leading the Isrealites for forty years in the wilderness would have a simpler task. I sincerely wish you all the best of luck, but I do hope you will take plenty of time to develop a very good business plan. Sorry to sound so severe, but I think a good dose of realism never hurts.

I guess I should have stated those numbers are my ultimate goal, not something I plan to do right off the bat, I'm ambitious, not stupid. Also, my husband is planning to continue working while I stay home, same as we do now. We have a child actually, he's almost two and loves being around animals (there's a mini-farm and a horse farm near us). I greatly appreciate your candidacy, thank you.

Originally Posted by sunshinytraci

Geo In Mi raises some very fine points. I think we all have a tendency in the beginning to seriously underestimate the amount of time, effort, and most of all money tending animals and gardens take. Livestock tends to suck down cash (the larger the animal the worse they are) at an alarming rate when you don't have any serious plans on how to market their products.

Do ALOT of research. Call the state university cooperative extension service in the places you are thinking of moving to. These guys have been tremendously helpful to me. Test the soil. Calculate the amount of money and work it will take to amend those soils. Find out how much it will cost to seed and maintain your pastures in various locations. Another place I have found this type of information is my local feed store. Not the guys at TSC but from a local guy who has been dealing seed and feed to the local farmers for ages around here. Also, the Department of Agriculture publishes a book on all the agricultural markets state by state. By making year by year comparisons, you can tell whether or not the market is growing. Make lots of phone calls.

Even if you don't plan to make your living from your homestead, you will want to purchase the best possible place you can afford so if you decide to give farming or ranching a go it will be easier on you.

But you know what? People have ran out to the countryside with dreams and no plans and somehow they have made it all work out. However, your chances of success and most of all of happiness will greatly increase the more planning you do.

I'll do that today. Thank you!

[bgraham]

I have 5 acres in TN.

We currently have 9 Nubian goats, 5 Bourbon Red turkeys, 30 something hens, 30 something chicks, 4 cats, a dog and a 2000SF garden. We also occasionally have a couple of pigs.

About 1 1/2 acres is house and lawn.

I try to never carry more than 7 or 8 adult goats. I rotate them on about 3 of the acres and any more than that and I would be feeding hay. Right now I feed hay in the winter but there is plenty of browse during the spring and summer. About 2 of the acres are wooded and covered in wild blackberries. They love it.

I have chicken tractors that I use for the chickens. They are kept in a different area from the goats. The tractors do not have a floor and we move them every other day so the chickens get fresh grass and bugs. The chickens also get all the layer pellets they want.

Our 2000 SF garden gives us enough produce to eat through the summer with a little to can. It would not sustain us year round. 2000 SF is less than 1/20th of an acre and is A LOT of work!

I guess the big question as far as animals go is if you want them to be able to feed themselves part of the year or do you plan to dry lot them and pay for feed. Personally, I'm not willing to do that. If you are buying all their feed, you can fit more in a smaller space.

We could probably add a few sheep to our 5 acres and not have a problem.

If you want to homestead and have lots of animals, I would suggest buying as much land as you can reasonably afford.

Beth