Pasture vs hay vs grain crops- lots of Q's.

[Callieslamb]

Our new home will have 5 acres of pasture/hay. I know it isn't a lot. I have a few questions about what might be the best way to proceed. Right now 1/2 is pasture and 1/2 is hay. Both fields are very long and narrow - about 1100 x 100. There is no natural water available so the well will have to provide it. I do NOT want to have a big, bare mud hole in my back yard, so to speak.

Questions:
1. Is there any advantage to a long narrow field? It seems to me that a more square-shape would be easier to provide water and rotate grazing. Is there something I am missing - or are the long-narrow more for running horses? (that is what this place is set up to hold.)

2. Is rotational grazing even a possibility/worth the effore on such a small plot with only a few animals?

3. I haven't decided what animal(s) yet. I would like to think I could have a milk cow, a steer and a couple of sheep. Am I fooling myself? Is that amount of land capable of feeding that number of animals? This is in Michigan- lots of green, but I have to admit to not knowing what kind of grass is growing there. The type of grass can be changed to suit the animal, right?

4. I know that no one can tell me, but I am going to ask anyway - how much hay can you get on an acre - if the field is medium-good, mostly planted in grasses? And someone pays through the nose for fertilizer and does their best to take good care of it? Do people use the smaller square bales anymore?

5.Is there any point to try to grow my own hay with this amount of land? Would I be better off to pasture it all? I was going to put in a 300x300 plot of corn, sunflowers, milo and millet for the chickens this year to see what I could do with that. I know that I cannot grow all that I would need - especially with cattle. Which would you concentrate on doing hay? pasture?

6. Do goats absolutely HAVE to have browse? Can you provide that for them with hay instead of brush? Will they eat the tall, dry stems of grass that didn't get mowed from the year before? I think I would much rather have a pretty little jersey or guernsey cow...but, I could go a lot futher in providing for a small herd of goats on this small piece of land.

Many thanks for your patience with my questions! This isn't the end of them!

[BTO]

Start with a few sheep and six hens or so and go from there. When you get to where you want to go with them calculate the load on your land and add another enterprise as your resources and time allow. Stop adding animals when you reach your maximum carrying capacity. You are limited because of the size of your homestead. Choose wisely and plan each enterprise carefully and you might be surprised at just how much you can accomplish. For now I'd KISS and don't get ahead of yourself.:baby04:

[Jennifer L.]

Leave the hay field long and narrow. It's a lot easier to mow and bale that way because you aren't cornering the machine all the time, just on the headlands. Squares are an absolute PITA to work with.

Long pastures give any animal in there exercise, including you walking to go see them. I personally would leave the fields as is.

You can probably get at 5 or 6 round bales per acre. That's what I get here in NNYS on unimproved hay fields, and I would think MI is much the same. And you might get more. You should be able to support two cows on the hay over winter, or one cow and some sheep.

Jennifer

[rambler]

I come at this as a farmer, with a herd of cattle & more land in the cold climate of Minnesota, so take my thoughts for what they are worth, as applied to your very different situation.

A hay field is much nicer to cut, rake, and bale if it is long & narrow & very rectangular.

For your small amount of livestock on a small area of land in a warmer longer season, I would think you would be much better off grazing as much as possible, and buying your hay.

It costs in machinery to bale & store hay.

The livestock can harvest yours for free - once you get the fencing up. Pay for the hay - you'll be paying for it anyhow.....

If it were me, I would fence the other 5 acres, one long side is already fenced, so now you will have 2 pastures for about 1/2 ther money. In the future, you can split each pasture in 1/2 again with simpler wire and have 4 paddocks for rotational grazing. (You said a total of 5 acres of hay ground, not 5 acres total minus your yard minus your field, etc?????)

You don't have to go all out for rotational grazing, but having 2 or better yet 4 pastures will make you a lot more feed and better times. And less weeds. It's a good thing.

You can feed goats hay all year around, no pasture - but that _is_ the mudhole you are talking about, and is the most expensive way to do things. Use the pasture, imho.

As far as pasture shape, it doesn't matter so much, 1100 feet is no problem at all. It takes a lot more fence to make a long thing pasture is about the only negative, but if you already have 2.5 acres fenced that way, you are ahead of the game & go with it!

Oh - I just rered Muchigan, not Tennesse - but that's ok, I still stick with what I said, pasturing makes more sense than harvesting & feeding the hay.

Here is a very good beginner's guide to making hay: http://www.sheepscreek.com/rural/haying.html

If you search his home page you should also find his equally good pasture FAQ, and one on preditors as well.

That should help you learn how much fert you need (soil test, adjust soil ph with lime if needed first,t hen add what is needed as you can afford it -planting legumes like clovers will help give you free N so you only need to buy P & K....) and how many bales or livestock you can get on your 5 acres.

Here in Minesota I can raise 20-35 head of cattle on a 9 acre pasture. Wow you say!!! But wait, I need to add a little grain every day over winter, and sometimes in summer. I fence off & graze an additional 2 acres of lawn (yes, lawn) around some of my buildings for about 2-3 weeks of hay, and I fence off a 5 acre oats field in fall that has re-grown with legumes, new oats, turnips, and so forth. Then in late fall they are out on 35 acres of cornstalks, grazing that.

I harvest about 10-15 acres of alfalfa or grass hay as well, in case winters are severe. I plan on them eating about 1/2 that, but you never know....

So to distill that, you could raise 10 head of cattle on your 5 arces with rotational grazing, but only for 5-6 months of the year in Michigan. You'll have to convert that into goats or sheep, I donno....

Small square bales are very, ery popular with smaller operations. they are easier to deal with on a small scale. Round or large square bales are easier to handle tons & tons of hay with big tractors. You will find both in Michigan.

Well, my reply rambled (see my handle???) all over the place, hope you can get something from it & ask more because of it.

--->Paul

[Rocky Fields]

Hey.

Michigan...how about planting an apple orchard?

RF

[Callieslamb]

Many, many thanks!

I see the long and narrow advantage. Now that I am reminded of that, back when I was a kid spending a lot of my summer vacation on the back (and inside) of a hay truck...I can see that long and narrow is best. Catching those bales in a loader on a curve wasn't easy and usually got the driver in trouble for gumming up the loader!

I would love to have an alfalfa/legume based hay field....but I won't know what is here until it starts to grow up a bit. Can you overseed alfalfa or do you have to clear it all and start over totally. I am not sure I will be able to do that.

Someone is obviously haying the fields now. You can tell where the cuts have been taken in the grass. Hopefully, we can figure out who that person is and get them to continue to bale it for us on halves or something. They are probably used to getting it all though. Our property hasn't been used by animal owners for a couple of years.

I will not be able to handle large bales unless I figure out a layout that incorporates leaving the hay around here and there, until we need it. Keeping it covered and unavailable in the mean time.

Can you pasture cattle on your hay fields late in the season for a while?

I don't see how you can pasture animals of any kind without rotating pastures around, unless you have a 100 acres for them to roam.

[Callieslamb]

Originally Posted by Rocky Fields

Hey.

Michigan...how about planting an apple orchard?

RF

Those are a dime a dozen in that neighborhood - but cherry orchards are the nearest. Don't think I can compete with that! But we will have a small orchard of at least 2 of all the fruits we want to eat (and some we don't).

[jtsummie]

I would recommended reading All flesh is grass It's a good book I heard about on here.. It's a great book it talks all about pasture grazing it gives some good ideas for small farms

[billooo2]

I have been told that alfalfa needs to be drilled. You might check to see if someone could "no till" seed it after the hay has been cut.

If you have a good stand of good grass/hay, you may not want to plow it under just to pant alfalfa.

(The operative phrase is "good stand".......assess it after the grass is growing. And get the soil tested. You can put the best seed in the world on it, but if the soil does not have the right nutrients, the best seeds can't grow well.)

[Callieslamb]

thanks Jtsummie and billoo2,
I will look for the book. A soil test is first on my list after I get the kitchen unpacked.
the alfalfa would only be if we decide to go with dairy animals. But I agree, it isn't worth completely redoing a hayfield at this point.

[Beeman]

Do you have a barn or storage area for square bales of hay, need to be kept dry? Do you have a tractor to handle round bales to feed with? Both deciding factors on bale type.

[geo in mi]

Personally, I would set a goal of maybe a year from now for making a decision for just what to do with the acreage. Chances are the person who was doing the hay will come around this Spring and contact you about doing it again this year. Then, you can ask him (or her) what were the previous terms, and who that owner was, whether there was a written contract(probably not), etc. And you'll see what kind of stewardship that person has practiced on what is now your land.

Soil test, definitely, but I would take a good long look at the soil structure as well. This is Michigan sand, and either it will need heavy chemical inputs--or huge masses of organic materials to produce anything that will sustain heavy cropping or livestock. Wear out a shovel first before putting it to a plow. Look for the "white" line where the humus/topsoil runs out and turns to beach sand. Nearly all soil in Michigan will do this, unless you have streaks of clay--most often found around river areas--and you may be, if you are near the river. This doesn't mean there aren't nutrients there, just that they are easier to lose if you go at it too quickly. Chances are, too that your first job, based on a soil test, will be to add lime in order to seed a legume crop, which takes time to have the needed effect on the soil.

Water: I would recommend waiting until you go through the summer season. The sand base normally loses moisture very quickly from the middle of June through September, and even more if we have near drought conditions. I would bet the previous owners had to supplement with grass hay during that time if the pastures browned out. And it's pretty hard to run a garden hose a thousand feet, anyway...........

I'm not that familiar with your area, but you might want to contact Southern Michigan Seed, 48580 CR 352, 269-423-7051--just northwest of Decatur about two miles They have a full line of seeds and fertilizers that might help you make some decisions. They also deal in small, measured bags of clovers and alfalfas--you won't have to buy fifty pound commercial bags in order to try something out.

And, take a look at Dexters--I don't know too much about them, but my son has a friend who raises them, organic, too, along with chickens and pigs. Pretty tasty, a lot smaller than normal cows. They might work out for you.