Need some help (neighbors & dead animals), please, quick!

[whinnyninny]

I came home from the grocery store a while ago to find our neighbor's ram (who IMO is not even fit for breeding so I do not know why he is a ram) running around my yard. My DH and I tried to chase him out through our gate, but he freaked out an started running into the fence (4.5' horse mesh horse fence on wood posts), must've run into it at various spots around the yard a good dozen times, full force (including the fence in our goat pen which now needs repaired). Then he started staggering around, fell down and has DIED.

I am so angry. This is the umpteenth time that their animals have gotten out (they have a crappy barbed-wire fence that won't hold in anything), and the 5th time a livestock animal of theirs has gotten onto my property. (They had a nasty buck that got through our electric fence a few times). Their dog comes into our pasture (electric fence) quite regularly.

They're not home right now. When I got home I went over there to ask them to come get him, but they weren't there which is why we tried to chase him out. I called the Sheriff and Animal Control both, and they say they can't do anything about it. They told me to leave a note on the neighbor's door explainin what happened, and ask them to please come get the ram's body.

Is that going to suffice? I don't want to move the thing (it must weigh 150 lbs at least, and I can't move it, and I can't leave my small kids alone while I do it). DH had to go to work so he can't help out. What do I do?

[whinnyninny]

I can't be held liable for its death, can I? We didn't do anything to it, just tried to chase it out of our yard.

[BTO]

Obviously you are liable. You let the animal on your property. If it weren't for your excessively strong fence he would have exited when you asked him to! After all he was trained that fences are only suggestions. I'm kidding of course but I'd be ready for some stupid reason why you should pay them for their valuable ram. DON'T DO IT!

[Terri]

Leave a note on the neighbors door, and take the kids with you to leave the note if they are too young to be left alone.

I suspect that you are not liable. You had the right to chase the ram off, you were not trying to hurt it, and you have already notified the authorities.

Good luck!

[gone-a-milkin]

Just do what the sheriff, and/or animal control said. You have already talked to them and they will remember you if you need to contact them again.The neighbors would have to prosecute you in order to get damages (I can't imagine you would be liable though). This costs money.

About the carcass, just leave it for now. Take a pic too, to prove it is on your land. Give the neighbors a chance to come for it. These things always happen when the owners are not home.

I think it is too late to change the story at all about how it died. Just be honest and maybe your neighbors will not be absurd. Here's hoping!

[LittleRedHen]

I'd leave them a note to get their Ram and a bill to fix your fence! :P Maybe then they will invest in better fencing themselves

[whinnyninny]

I called the Ag office and they told me we have closed-range laws, which state that people must fence in their own animals, and that I should not be liable for the death of the animal.

I'm not going to even think about changing my story. I did what most people would've done... try to chase the animal out through our driveway gate. I didn't do anything wrong (doesn't mean they won't still be angry and want compensation). It's their stupid animal!

I doubt they can afford to fix their fence, they're very poor. (They shouldn't have animals, IMO... these things haven't even been sheared in the 2 years they've owned them).

[whinnyninny]

I put this note on their front door:

"I am sorry to inform you that your ram got onto my property, and has died. We tried herding him out through the front gate, but he became agitated and rammed his head several times into our fence in various spots, around the H-braces next to the front gate, and tried ramming his way into our goat pen. He then ran over to our orchard where he started staggering around for a few moments, then collapsed and died. That’s where he is right now, on the north side of my orchard.

I contacted the Sheriff’s Department and Animal Control, and was told by both offices that it is the responsibility of the animal owner to remove the body from my property."

Then signed my name.

Is that okay?

[Pearl B]

I would have kept quite about it & butchered it. Its not like they are trying to solve the problem, & you have damaged fencing that needs to be repaired, which I doubt they will pay for.

[whinnyninny]

It's a ram though, and he stunk to high heaven even when alive. Wouldn't he taste bad? (Butchering him was never an option... and we live on a road where cars go by every minute or so and several people saw us trying to chase him out of the yard, many of whom know these neighbors). My dad said to drag him to the back of the property (1,000 ft away) with the tractor and let the vultures have him, but we need to sell our place soon (moving to another county). I think a sheep carcass out there might be a bit of a turn-off, unless we could bury him?

I'll give the neighbors time to remove him first.

[Judith]

Ask the sheriff if you can take it back to the owner. I say this as they probably will leave the body for you to take care of. If the sheriff says you can return it tie a tarp to the bumper of a vehicle and roll his body on to it. Then you can drag it over there and not get hurt lifting. You do not want to get stuck with the corpse!

[snowshoehair]

The tarp transport should work if they don't come and get him themselves in a reasonable amount of time. They might not want to bother retrieving the ram now because then they would have to dipose of him some way.

Also, it might be a good idea to write down everything that happened along with the times, and take some pictures. It will help you to keep the facts straight just in case the neighbors get ugly about it at a later date.

[Ozarkquilter46]

If it were me I would tie a rope on him and with the car drag him into the driveway of the owner. Untie him and just go home. They don't care about there animals if they just let them get out all the time and they have no reason to come get a dead carcus from your yard. Drag him over there before he is to ripe to do so and let them figure out what to do with the dead animal.

[hintonlady]

I don't know what to tell you about letting the owners know but I have some insight into the rams death, to put your mind at ease.

Rams are built to sustain some very hard head butts, it's part of their natural disposition to RAM one another for fighting. I doubt his own strength going head first would kill him. Two rams will butt from different directions, generating much more force and come away fine.

I suspect a very severe worm/parasite load, let me explain why. If he was thin you wouldn't see it through the 2 years worth of wool. Any sheep owner worth a darn would not neglect that NEED. I would guess they were not too careful about feeding well or worming either.

I HAVE seen a sheep with high worm load get excited and just drop dead. Various worms attack places in the brain, heart etc. This causes a mountain of damage to vital organs. A sudden collapse into death is totally possible in a parasite ridden animal. He got excited and could have had something rupture and kill him as an indirect result of the neglect he was put through.


DON'T blame yourself. Either way he wasn't your responsibility to keep alive or board, even if for a few minutes.

[farmergirl]

The goal was to get him off your land, right? Why has that changed now that he is expired? I would just drop his remains off as close to the other property as I could get with a vehicle. I agree with the other poster who has told you that almost certainly the ram was in poor health to just drop dead when stressed.

[whinnyninny]

Originally Posted by hintonlady

I suspect a very severe worm/parasite load, let me explain why. If he was thin you wouldn't see it through the 2 years worth of wool. Any sheep owner worth a darn would not neglect that NEED. I would guess they were not too careful about feeding well or worming either.

I HAVE seen a sheep with high worm load get excited and just drop dead. Various worms attack places in the brain, heart etc. This causes a mountain of damage to vital organs. A sudden collapse into death is totally possible in a parasite ridden animal. He got excited and could have had something rupture and kill him as an indirect result of the neglect he was put through.

Um, knowing these owners, I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. I don't know if they've ever heard of dewormers! Or anything related to animal health or maintenance... just buy the absolute cheapest animal they can find, just because they live in the country and want to have animals. This ram is so matted up, it's nasty. So is the ewe that's still in the pen, who was standing on top of a dishwasher in the back of an old broken-down El Camino, looking over the fence in this direction a couple hours ago. (Their sheep pen is full of broken-down cars and old kitchen appliances).

[Ross]

While I agree with Hinton lady that rams smack their heads quite often with no problems its not uncommon for healthy rams to seriously hurt themselves and even die too. You aren't at fault, a dangerous animal was on your property and you tried to get it to leave. You'd have been in your rights to have shot the ram IMO. I hope your neighbors are reasonable about it all. Never fun.

[wr]

I think if it were me, I'd get some photos of the carcass and the damage to your fence. While you may be legally right to try and remove the ram from your property, you could still end up on the receiving end of a lawsuit and you want to be able to prove that you didn't shoot the ram and you'd be amazed how many crappy looking beasts become high priced show quality animals in front of a judge so you would also be allowed to prove he wasn't an awesome specimen. If needed, you can also counter sue for damages if things did go to court.

[FreeRanger]

Originally Posted by Ozarkquilter46

If it were me I would tie a rope on him and with the car drag him into the driveway of the owner. Untie him and just go home. They don't care about there animals if they just let them get out all the time and they have no reason to come get a dead carcus from your yard. Drag him over there before he is to ripe to do so and let them figure out what to do with the dead animal.

This was my first thoughts as well. I would not have thought twice about just tying ram by the legs and then to my truck. Pull over to owner's place. Leave note on the door. "Your ram died at my place. I don't want him." No signiture needed. They know the notes from you. If they want to discuss the details they can contact you.

It's note to late to go this route?

[whinnyninny]

Okay, if he's still here in the morning my DH and I will try to get him over there... it should only be 500' or so. We have a dump cart that goes behind our riding lawnmower we can try to load him into (though I really don't want to touch that nasty smelly thing). Too bad we're under a burn ban from our drought...

I think he'll still be here by then. They really don't seem to be the type of people to accept personal responsibility for anything. And wr, he really is a very nasty looking thing. I'll get pictures in the morning if he's still there.

This is a terrible picture, my 10yo took it while standing in the doorway earlier today, and the sheep was at least 150' away. Does he look like he has a bit of a bloated stomach, do you think? Wish the picture was better, I didn't think to take a pic of him myself.