Questions on buying firewood

[SimplerTimez]

Hi ya'll,

I did a search and came up with nothing related to this topic (unless it was buried inside of something that seemed unrelated that I didn't read!)

I am having to buy firewood for the first time. Mr ST is still living at our other place until late November. He wants me to buy for a winter's worth.

I know that our stove has a small firebox (it's still in the box at the moment, a gift to us), but we've never actually heated with a wood stove before.

I see all kinds of ads for wood for sale - but rarely, if ever, are they in standardized language like full cord, half cord, face cord, etc. I've only recently learned what these terms mean myself.

How do I determine what I'm buying and if it is a good deal?

How do I stack it when it gets here, or should I expect the provider to stack it?

What do I need to have in order to stack it properly and keep it correctly for winter's use?

I see things like, "short-bed truck load for 70 dollars delivered" (I understand that to mean a 6 foot bed). Or "hardwood by the dump truck load", call for price.

I understand that a cord is 4 x4 x8, and a face cord simply 4 x 8. Am I supposed to measure it when it gets here to make sure I'm getting a fair deal?

I feel really ignorant, I don't want to make a bad financial decision, and Mr ST is relying on me to handle this while he wraps up in the big city.

Can ya'll help me out? Prices are wildly varying, and I don't even know what is a fair price for a cord of wood - nothing is consistent!

We are located in SW Virginia; firebox should hold 12-16" pieces, per my neighbor's guesstimate. I've not actually SEEN the firebox as it's still in the box for assembly by Mr ST next weekend when he's here.

Thanks for bearing with what probably seems like a really basic question!

~ST

Edited to add more pertinent information.

[kscowboy]

deal in cord quantities only and yes measure on delivery , or set up some T posts to 4 x 8 area and make sure its filled up. We would go thru 3-4 cords a winter. prices ranged from 150 - 225 a cord depending on type of wood. Make sure its cut to fit your stove and split.

[Rick]

Where are you located? Alaska? Northern Maine? South Texas?

This is vital to receiving a good answer.

I have seen it written (and KScowboy just told you) that you should insist on a cord (for accuracy) when buying firewood. This would require the seller to stack it for you or stand around while you stacked it.

Around here in South central WV, firewood is plentuful, and sellers offer a truckload, picked up and neatly stacked in an 8 foot bed, for around fifty dollars, more fore delivery.

Rick

[kitaye]

I'm sure someone will step up but here is what we have learned. Get hardwood or mixed wood if at all possible. You'll get more heat per weight than you will with softwood.

A real dump truck load will get you between 8 and 10 face cords of wood. A shortbed box will average out to 2 face cords. Around here we see as low as $70/face cord and as high as $100/face cord.

The wood will most likely be dumped where you tell them to dump it and you have to stack it. This gives you a chance to check the quality. If there is a lot of rotten wood then mark the name down and don't buy from them the following year. Most wood will come in sizes anywhere from 10" to 16". Bigger will require cutting with a chainsaw.

Try to stack it off the ground and covered to keep it as dry as possible. We use 2 x4's to make frames then stack the wood on them. You can also use pallets. If you have a barn to stack it in that would be ideal and doesn't require raising it.

Depending on the quality of your stove, the size of your house, and how cold it is you will need 6 -20 face cords of hardwood to get through the winter. We heat a 1200 square foot house with moderate insulation and we keep it fairly cool at night. We usually use 8-10 face cords of wood.

Hope that helps.

[edcopp]

It might help us to give you a good answer if we knew where you are (what part of the country). So we might be able to figure out what kind of wood is available to you and how severe your winter will be.

That said, you don't sound too ignorant to me. At least you know what size a cord is. Always use a cord or part of a cord when figuring up the volume of wood. It is O.K. to use a calculator if you want. 128 cubic feet = 1 cord.

It will be important to know the difference between hardwood and soft wood. It seems like a lot of sellers don't know the difference, they seem to think that if it is as hard as their head it must be hardwood.

It will also be important to learn the difference between dry wood and green wood. After wood is cut there is some time needed for the sap to dry out of the wood before burning it. This process is called seasoning. Six months is about minimum and 1-2 years is much better.

While the wood is seasoning or being stored for later use it needs to be kept dry. It is O.K. to stack it outside where it will get a lot of air circulation. I prefer to stack wood on a pallet, and place a cover on top of it so that rain or snow will not get to the wood. The stacking of the wood is usually the job of the purchaser. If the wood is stacked by the hauler expect to pay for that service.

This will be a learning experience for you. There is a lot to learn. Ask lots of questions right here on this board and you will get lots of help. Be careful not to overdo the wood is usually tougher than you are, so take it easy.

[SimplerTimez]

LOL! I hear you ed - the amaranth and lamb's quarters almost beat me to a pulp while I was clearing them by hand. Sounds as if I need my muddy-grubbies on when the wood arrives, and some good gloves.

I understand that I need seasoned hardwood (oak, locust, maple seem to be the more commonly advertised here), and seasoned. However, I wouldn't recognize a seasoned piece of wood over a green one. And I know my lack of knowledge and being female can be a troublesome combo with the wrong folks on the other end of the phone. I can't go see it, as I am carless when I'm here. So I'm having to ask the proper questions, then pray they are honest when they get here. Wheee! Next year we won't have to do this, as we will have cut our own wood hopefully. I just don't want to let Mr ST down - he trust my connections here on the board a lot

Thanks for your responses!

[SimplerTimez]

Thanks kitkaye - that gives me a good overall indicator of how much I'd need. Mr ST thought 2 full cords would do it, but I wasn't sure. We have back up electric heat, but don't want to use it if possible due to the electricity budget. I'm not sure what the square footage is here...probably about 1200 square feet more or less ( 2 bedrooms, loft room, living room and kitchen)

We don't mind it cool - when we lived in the city I let the thermostat sit on 50 in the winter and just wore long johns and sweaters most of the time. I will buy some fingerless gloves though this year, since I type for a living and that was the only real drawback, keeping my hands warm...LOL!

Thank you!

[suitcase_sally]

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I understand that a cord is 4 x4 x8, and a face cord simply 4 x 8.

A face cord is 16" wide x 4' tall x 8' long. If the wood is cut shorter than 16" you are not getting a full face cord. Make sure to stack it tight. You shouldn't be able to stick your hand between logs. Some unscrupulous wood dealers will stack the wood so loosely you could stick your arm thru in places.

[suitcase_sally]

Originally Posted by edcopp

It will be important to know the difference between hardwood and soft wood. It seems like a lot of sellers don't know the difference, they seem to think that if it is as hard as their head it must be hardwood.

People in the woodworking and lumbering business refer to hardwood as any wood from a deciduous tree (leaf bearing). Softwood is wood from evergreen trees (pine, fir, ect). All hardwood is not the same. Cottonwood is not nearly as good as oak. Balsa is the softest wood there is but is still hardwood.

[Old Vet]

When you buy just see the load and agree on a price. Stacking a wood is a chore and can be deceiving I can stack wood so that you only get 3/4 cord in 4X4X8. So can most other vendors. Just come to an agreement on what a load is worth and pay that price.

[FreeRanger]

I recommend asking a couple of neighbors where they buy wood. then look at their stacks of wood. I say this because I have purchased the "dump truck load" once...ended up with alot of dirt and bark where I didn't want it.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I am having to buy firewood for the first time. Mr ST is still living at our other place until late November. He wants me to buy for a winter's worth.

I love heating with wood. In a large part because we cut our own from our forest so I have control over it. Wood is sustainable even if you're buying it so that makes it a great choice. There are some gotcha's to watch out for like not burning your house down, not freezing the pipes if you leave for a spell in the winter, etc.

Check out this:

http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDo...ngFirewood.pdf

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I know that our stove has a small firebox (it's still in the box at the moment, a gift to us), but we've never actually heated with a wood stove before.

Get your chimney inspected and cleaned by a professional and ask them to teach you how to clean it. It is generally quite simple unless you've got an unusually convoluted flue or a hard to access roof. Since this is your first time, have a pro do it for now. Also ask them to check out the wood stove installation, pipes, etc to make sure it is all setup right. Make it clear you'll pay them well for them to take the time and that you are a novice. A good one will give you invaluable advice. Ask them to light a fire. Ask them how to deal with a chimney fire (close off the oxygen for starters).

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I see all kinds of ads for wood for sale - but rarely, if ever, are they in standardized language like full cord, half cord, face cord, etc. I've only recently learned what these terms mean myself.

There is a legal definition of a cord that carries in most states. It is 8'x4'x4' which is 128 cubic feet. Note that there is also a face cord that some people sell by which is generally 1/3rd to 1/2 of that amount.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

How do I determine what I'm buying and if it is a good deal?

You want hard wood. Sugar maple, rock maple, iron wood, oak, birch, etc are all good. Soft woods like popular burn up too fast and don't produce nearly as much heat. Pine, spruce, fir and other evergreens produce large amounts of creosote and are not good for burning in the house. They are great for using as kindling, if properly dried, to start a fire.

You want dry seasoned wood. It is going to cost extra. I see it selling for as much as $225 per full cord. Beware of low prices. They probably are for green wood.

Unfortunately you're buying wood late in the year. Prices are going to be at a premium and it may be hard to find good wood.

In the good news, for you, lumber prices are down so we're cutting fire wood instead this (and last) year.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

How do I stack it when it gets here, or should I expect the provider to stack it?

You want cut and split wood very preferably delivered. Pay someone to properly stack it for you this first year - that's an extra service. Do it with them so you learn.

Rotate stack the ends or use a stake at the ends to keep the pile up. Keep the wood even on the face. Put the cut surface down, bark up. Stack the wood where you walk in the house so you can bring some in each time you enter. Leave an air gap between the wood and the house or any other structure. You want the wood to continue drying.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

What do I need to have in order to stack it properly and keep it correctly for winter's use?

Stack the wood outdoors under cover - tin or plywood on top works fine. Stack it in rows up off the ground. Pallets work well. A pair of 2x4's parallel work well.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I see things like, "short-bed truck load for 70 dollars delivered" (I understand that to mean a 6 foot bed). Or "hardwood by the dump truck load", call for price.

The reason for truck load is efficiency of delivery. They don't want to deliver half a cord to someone when they could be delivering four cords in the same amount of time. Time is money.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I understand that a cord is 4 x4 x8, and a face cord simply 4 x 8. Am I supposed to measure it when it gets here to make sure I'm getting a fair deal?

Depending on how tightly it is stacked it will be more or less. It will likely never come out to exactly that.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

I feel really ignorant, I don't want to make a bad financial decision, and Mr ST is relying on me to handle this while he wraps up in the big city.

Make sure he is clear that you're learning. Best to buy too much wood this year and have well seasoned wood left over for next year than to run out in the middle of the winter. Wood keeps for decades. It gets better if properly stacked.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

Can ya'll help me out? Prices are wildly varying, and I don't even know what is a fair price for a cord of wood - nothing is consistent!

The wood type, dryness, delivery, distance, local price pressures, services (stacking) all make a big difference in the price.

Originally Posted by SimplerTimez

We are located in SW Virginia; firebox should hold 12-16" pieces, per my neighbor's guesstimate. I've not actually SEEN the firebox as it's still in the box for assembly by Mr ST next weekend when he's here.

Specify the log length to the supplier so they know what you need. It makes a big difference. We have a wood furnace that will take 40" by 14"x14" logs and a wood stove that takes little ones like yours. Let them know what you need. It would be a real bummer to have wood that is too big!

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org

[Hoop]

Word of mouth is absolutely the best (perhaps only) way to purchase firewood.

There are no standards applicable to this type of product, and as such, the opportunities for ripoffs are huge. There are indeed many legitimate firewood sellers. There are also dodgy characters that will sell you a shorted load or (very common around here) inadequately dried wood.
Unfortunately, you won't know whether you're dealing with a legitimate or dodgy sellers until days after the seller has been paid.

[nathan104]

I am shopping for firewood right now as well. Last year I had plenty hear from an old oak that had been on the ground several years so I cut and split what I needed myself. this year Im looking to buy. Our wood stove takes short logs as well. Put in side to side, it will take 15" logs. If I stack it front to back, I can go up to 18" logs. So far, I found a GREAT price but they are too long. This guy has three cords of split and seasoned oak and is willing to deliver and stack it for only $130/cord. Thats a pretty good deal for deleivered and stacked. but, It sure would suck having to take a chainsaw to that many pieces of firewood to cut it down to size. I may end up doing it though depending on the other price I find.

[SimplerTimez]

Thank you all so much for your informative and helpful feedback!

After reviewing local wood prices, and considering the lesser cost if we even doubled our electric usage, it doesn't seem like heating with wood as the primary source would be the most cost effective route. Mr ST will be here this weekend for a visit, and we are going to assemble the stove, measure the firebox and do some test burns hopefully, before making any investment.

The stove would do double duty, serving as heat and cooking source, but we really need to figure out which is the best approach; maybe mixed use is the actual best.

I really appreciate everyone who took the time to post, especially your thoughtful and considerate approach (instead of deriding me for lack of knowledge!)

I love this board!

~ST

PS. Nathan, that sounds like an incredible deal - let us know how it works out!