baking for a farmer's market

Betho · #1 09/23/08, 01:30 PM

OK I don't usually do this sort of thing but I simply cannot seem to find what I'm looking for!

I'm trying to figure out what the regulations are for a kitchen if I want to sell baked goods at a farmer's market. I live in Spokane County, WA... the State website is a lot easier to navigate than the county, I can't seem to figure out that info. Of course, when I contacted someone, they referred me to the official documents that are so full of legalese and things that don't apply to me that my head was spinning.

I found the State regulations here
http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/FoodPro...meProcFacility

Pretty clear-cut, I think. Basically, you need a separate kitchen than the one you use, it doesn't have to be commercial though. No separate bathrooms needed if you don't have employees. And your tables and whatnot have to be a certain type, but it's all explained pretty well.

But I'm having NO luck with the county, and I know they are somewhat more strict than the state. ANyone who is more adept with google want to help me? Or maybe even if perchance there's someone ere in the county who happens to sell processed goods at a FM want to help me (lol... you never know, there COULD be someone!)

Thanks

Helena · #2 09/23/08, 02:33 PM

I have a friend in NY state that has a pie business and she sells at the farmer's market also. What she has done...is uses (or rents) the church's kitchen that is OK'd by the state already. This way she isn't involving her home kitchen with the state license and inspections. It works very, very well for her. Check into a public kitchen like this..just might be the best thing for you too !! Good Luck !! ( also...she sells whole pies but also sells slices for a couple of $$'ss..seems like some people can afford or want to taste her pie with just a slice...and she still is making good money. )

Bonnie L · #3 09/23/08, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betho

I'm trying to figure out what the regulations are for a kitchen if I want to sell baked goods at a farmer's market. I live in Spokane County, WA...

I'm just north of you in Colville. I used to bake for the Farmer's Market & then they got strict.

You need a commercial kitchen. They won't approve anyplace else. For baking bread that just costs too much. Up here the only people selling baked goods at farmer's markets own a bakery or restaurant.

If you talk with the people who run the Spokane Farmer's Market, they can fill you in on the details. I'm drawing a blank on names, but one is a young minister who looks too cute to be a minister.

There's a lady who lives, I think, over in Davenport who makes & sells - legally - her own bbq sauce. Oh my, is it good! I think she rents when she makes up a new batch. She made me think about selling my own very good bbq sauce & herb jellies. The difficulty is getting up the energy to face the hoops the government says we have to jump through.

Betho · #4 09/23/08, 04:01 PM

Oh Bonnie, I was hoping you'd chime in on this thread!

That's bad news... I think the only possibility of renting a commercial kitchen would be a restaurant, I don't think there's any business incubator kitchens here anymore.

Now question - when you say it got complicated are you talking about selling at the Spokane FM? For some reason I was thinking Stevens Co is more lax than Spokane. We'll be moving to Addy in a few years and I hope to eventually be more involved at a FM up there, so that might not be good news for me

Bonnie L · #5 09/23/08, 07:12 PM

Stevens Co. used to be more lax, but a certain person was a real stickler for food safety laws. Now the farmer's markets here don't dare let anyone sell prepared food without the proper paperwork. Pity. It was fun.

We had an incubator kitchen here for a while, but it was so expensive to rent it went belly up.

It's still possible to do well growing things. If only I had a green thumb.

Whereabouts in Addy are you moving to? A lady there has started up a sort of all-purpose market, but last time I check it wasn't doing too well. The new farmer's market in Chewelah is doing well - this was the first year. They're going to keep it going over the winter as a monthly craft fair, then go back to food in the spring. We have 2 markets in Colville - Saturday & Wednesday.

Betho · #6 09/23/08, 08:55 PM

What a crying shame. I wonder if there would be a market for an incubator type kitchen if it wasn't so expensive? Something my family has talked about, we have so many future plans that would involve a kitchen like that, we thought it might be worthwhile to go commercial and then rent it out... but now that is looking like it might be our only option. I was initially looking for sooner though, here in Spokane. Mostly just feeling out the possibilities. I don't think I want to rent any place, though, for the time being.

My parents got 120 acres up off Hutchison Rd (which is off Addy-Gifford) and we'll buy 20 acres from them. My mom is on this forum as Dubi, you might have talked to her already

We have lots of plans for the acreage but a lot of those plans include farmer's market type things, so this is very good information. My dream is to just do market gardening or even maybe CSA depending on things, plus other additional things like raising some meat & eggs. But mostly I was going to focus on value added type things... cinnamon rolls, cookies, bread, jams, jellies, spice mixes from our homegrown herbs & whatnot, etc. I'll have to let my mom know about this commercial kitchen thing. That drives me nuts... are homebaked cookies and breads really THAT dangerous that we have to make the requirements so darn strict that it's impossible? Geesh.

Betho · #7 09/23/08, 08:58 PM

Oh and just so I have a frame of reference, when you say the incubator was too expensive, how much was it? I wonder how much would be reasonable for people to pay to rent a commercial kitchen?

Bonnie L · #8 09/23/08, 09:39 PM

If your mother got her canner gauge tested, I met her! I'm the only one here.

I can't remember how much the kitchen rented for - numbers don't stick in my head. But it was more than I was able to earn at the market.

The only health danger from baked goods is contamination by a sick employee or rodents. And that can happen in any commercial kitchen! Years ago I knew the dishwasher at a fancy French restaurant. The people paid thru the nose for delicious, fancy food & candle-lit ambiance. What they didn't know about were the thousands - millions! - of cockroaches in the kitchen!

I wouldn't have wanted to be there after the lights were off.

Dubi · #9 09/23/08, 11:50 PM

Bonnie, I didn't get my gauge tested, but I have chatted with you here on HT or maybe by PM! We've read your articles in the Huckleberry Press (is that the name?)--very enjoyable. I wondered if you had access to any info on the history of Addy?

Betho's mom, also known as Dubi

**Terri** · #10 09/24/08, 06:38 AM

Some people rent or borrow the church kitchen.

As for your questions, have you asked the market master? S/he might know!

Betho · #11 09/24/08, 09:07 AM

I emailed the market person but I haven't heard back, I might try a different local market and see if that person is more responsive

Church kitchens are a good idea for sure, though I know not all of them are certifi-able. I guess I should see what the requirements for a commercial kitchen are. Who knows, we could luck out in the future and be able to buy out a close restaurant or cafe or something

wy_white_wolf · #12 09/24/08, 09:16 AM

My Mother would rent the VFW kitchen when she was baking pies. Since they weren't in business to make money off the kitchen all they wanted was a pie or 2 a day for they're patrons to snack on. The busiest days at the VFW soon became the days that the word got out that she was baking pies on that day.

Auric · #13 09/24/08, 09:17 AM

Last year DW and I were selling baked goods, and jellies at the local Farmer's Market. DW had a commercial kitchen at her daycare center. The USDA inspector stopped by and closed us down on the last day of the season, as we didn't have a permit from the USDA. We, of course, didn't know that we needed one, and the Farmer's Market coordinator had made no mention of needing one, when we asked if we could sell baked goods. This year we didn't bother to go back. There was a lot of back-stabbing going on, and we suspect that another vendor had alerted the USDA authorities. We were one of about half a dozen vendors that were closed that day. Obviously we weren't the only ones that didn't know what we needed to be legal.

Betho · #14 09/26/08, 09:37 AM

Ok so according to the manager of one of the local FMs anyone selling baked goods & pastries is exempt from needing the county permit, which would nix the commercial kitchen (just need an approved one, which would have to be a 2nd kitchen, not the one you normally use) but still would have to follow their rules at the FM itself like using tissues to serve, gloves, etc.

Weird.

Bonnie L · #15 09/26/08, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betho

Ok so according to the manager of one of the local FMs anyone selling baked goods & pastries is exempt from needing the county permit, which would nix the commercial kitchen (just need an approved one, which would have to be a 2nd kitchen, not the one you normally use) but still would have to follow their rules at the FM itself like using tissues to serve, gloves, etc.

Weird.

Very weird. That's not what I was told here. Could it be that Stevens county is more strict? Or that someone interpreted the rules more strictly? That would mean a church kitchen would be OK.

Betho · #16 09/26/08, 08:49 PM

Yeah I don't know, I guess it's possible but seems weird that Stevens would be more strict.

http://www.spokanemarkets.org/ this is the one I contacted, if you look at the document that's about permits and licenses it does say that a SCHD permit isn't required, but WSDA is (and WSDA just requires the separate licensed kitchen).

I've been trying to figure out, though, what makes a commercial kitchen a commercial kitchen? Is it all commercial appliances? Seems to me that it wouldn't be $10,000 to set up if all you needed were a few things, like no giant $2000 refrigerator or freezer or anything. I dunno.

Faithful One · #17 09/26/08, 11:29 PM

So what is the difference between a Farmers Market and a Bake Sale?

So it's okay to buy unregulated food at a bake sale, but not a Farmers Market?

Why would the food saftey laws be different between the two?

Lynn Bodoni · #18 09/27/08, 04:39 AM

Quote:

( also...she sells whole pies but also sells slices for a couple of $$'ss..seems like some people can afford or want to taste her pie with just a slice...and she still is making good money. )

Could be that people just don't want a whole pie around, with all its tempting tastiness. It's only me and Himself here now that our daughter has moved out. Well, there's the three cats, but we don't give them sweet pies (they love bits of meat pies, though). My husband doesn't really care for pies or cakes or sweet stuff, so I will go and buy a slice of pie or cake every now and then. A whole cake will go really stale before I finish it off. Fortunately, I know of a diner that always has great cakes.

A slice of pie or cake can be eaten right now, too, as opposed to carrying it around and then putting it in your car.

Betho · #19 09/27/08, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithful One

So what is the difference between a Farmers Market and a Bake Sale?

So it's okay to buy unregulated food at a bake sale, but not a Farmers Market?

Why would the food saftey laws be different between the two?

I think that's a great question! I wonder if it's just a matter of the health board not bothering with them... I doubt the actual laws are any different.

OK actually they are, at least in my county, the health code says they are exempt from the rules:

"Non-PHF (*Potentially Hazardous Food*) baked goods offered for sale or service by a nonprofit organization operating for religious, charitable, or educational purposes"

But either way, I still think it's a double standard but I wouldn't crow loudly about it in a million years, what do you wanna bet they'd shut down bake sales to make things "even."

Bonnie L · #20 09/27/08, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithful One

So what is the difference between a Farmers Market and a Bake Sale?

So it's okay to buy unregulated food at a bake sale, but not a Farmers Market?

Why would the food safety laws be different between the two?

Our county talked about making bake sales & pot lucks illegal unless the food was prepared in inspected kitchens.

Someone with common sense prevailed.

When I was selling at the farmer's market, I had to call it a bake sale. I gave a percentage of my profits to the local St. Vincent de Paul. Now that loophole has been closed.