Price Gouging

AJ Williams · #1 09/15/08, 12:49 PM

You think gas making a 1 day jump from 3.61 to 4.69 is price gouging? I think it is. Especially when the gas went in the station tanks at less than 3.65 a gallon.

LostnEurope · #2 09/15/08, 12:53 PM

AJ,I agree, just looked on Bloomberg,gas futures are down over 21 cents a gallon/oil is below 96 dollars a barrell...LnE

Windy in Kansas · #3 09/15/08, 12:58 PM

In the 1970s, at least for some of the time during the energy crunch, dealers could not raise the price of fuel for a new shipment until what they had was almost gone. I think any honorable dealer would do that today----if you can find any.

EDDIE BUCK · #4 09/15/08, 12:59 PM

Sure it is but I bet they can talk their way around it,atleast they have been.

seedspreader · #5 09/15/08, 01:35 PM

This is always an interesting discussion...

In many respects price-gouging is in the eye of the beholder (usually the purchaser).

If I am a business man and in a hurricane hit area I have invested 20-30K in a generator system (and take the risk knowing my station may get wiped out anyway) and I am the guy up and operating the day after the storm, do I have a right to recover money and collect profit on my foresight? In a free market system, do I have the right to collect what the market will bear? If all of a sudden FEMA starts giving out free gas and no one buys my gas, will I be reimbursed for my generator?

Now that said, people who take advantage of folks, beyond reasonable (reasonable being the "clear-as-mud" term) should be run out on a rail by their own community. Not with force of law, but with the community refusing to purchase their gas (or whatever) at the location after the disaster is passed.

I've actually seen that work in a couple instance after 9/11 back in my old hometown.

But I always get a little nervous when people start talking about all these regulations on price gouging. If I stock up on firewood and we have a hard winter and I sell firewood, should I be able to raise my price? Don't I own the firewood? I think it falls to personal business transactions to figure out what they will allow. Freezing prices will just create a black market. First because frozen prices will limit availability, and those who buy at the frozen prices will sell for more on the black market.

Unless we argue that fuel is a nationally own product, we can't limit the discussion to eliminate all things in our life that we buy or sell.

Should doctors get paid the same as the garbage man? Pretty much the same discussion in many respects.

Callieslamb · #6 09/15/08, 01:39 PM

Or do we want a free market? Shouldn't gouging be allowed - and let the foolish pay the price? We had that price increase in one day here at one station. What I want to know is how stations justify increasing their price 3x in one day. It isn't like they got their gas delivered 3x in one day.

AJ Williams · #7 09/15/08, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

This is always an interesting discussion...

In many respects price-gouging is in the eye of the beholder (usually the purchaser).

If I am a business man and in a hurricane hit area I have invested 20-30K in a generator system (and take the risk knowing my station may get wiped out anyway) and I am the guy up and operating the day after the storm, do I have a right to recover money and collect profit on my foresight? In a free market system, do I have the right to collect what the market will bear? If all of a sudden FEMA starts giving out free gas and no one buys my gas, will I be reimbursed for my generator?

Now that said, people who take advantage of folks, beyond reasonable (reasonable being the "clear-as-mud" term) should be run out on a rail by their own community. Not with force of law, but with the community refusing to purchase their gas (or whatever) at the location after the disaster is passed.

I've actually seen that work in a couple instance after 9/11 back in my old hometown.

But I always get a little nervous when people start talking about all these regulations on price gouging. If I stock up on firewood and we have a hard winter and I sell firewood, should I be able to raise my price? Don't I own the firewood? I think it falls to personal business transactions to figure out what they will allow. Freezing prices will just create a black market. First because frozen prices will limit availability, and those who buy at the frozen prices will sell for more on the black market.

Unless we argue that fuel is a nationally own product, we can't limit the discussion to eliminate all things in our life that we buy or sell.

Should doctors get paid the same as the garbage man? Pretty much the same discussion in many respects.

None of these local stations had to worry about being out of anything but maybe fuel. They were raising prices even before the hurricane hit Texas. Reasonable raises in pricing is one thing, $1 a gallon is gouging.

seedspreader · #8 09/15/08, 02:04 PM

So don't buy from them anymore... and tell them why.

Get a LOT of people to not buy from them... write a letter to the newspaper. You may be pleasantly surprised to find out a) more information that you didn't know that affected the price or b) that many people see it as price gouging and that you have the power to put them out of business.

#9 09/15/08, 02:07 PM

The attornies general of several states of issuing subpoenas to some of the worst of them even now.

.....Alan.

seedspreader · #10 09/15/08, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.T. Hagan

The attornies general of several states of issuing subpoenas to some of the worst of them even now.

.....Alan.

Have you ever seen them actually prosecuted for it in Florida?

I've seen them issue subpoenas before, but it seemed that price gouging was pretty hard to prove.

seedspreader · #11 09/15/08, 02:45 PM

Hey, if you want to do an interesting google, go google "convicted of price gouging"

I can't find anyone who actually was convicted!

#12 09/15/08, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedspreader

Have you ever seen them actually prosecuted for it in Florida?

I've seen them issue subpoenas before, but it seemed that price gouging was pretty hard to prove.

I don't know if there have been any convictions, but it usually starts bringing gas prices back into line.

I haven't seen any big price jumps in my area. About thirty five cents a gallon at one place is it.

.....Alan.

seedspreader · #13 09/15/08, 02:56 PM

I posted a while ago that our gas is monolithic around here, it takes a LONG time to change.

It was higher than average 3.59 a week ago... and it's still 3.59. Much different than Northeast Ohio, where it would change daily.

watcher · #14 09/15/08, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.T. Hagan

The attornies general of several states of issuing subpoenas to some of the worst of them even now.

.....Alan.

Been done over and over and in almost every case it has came to nothing because the was no gouging.

Wayne02 · #15 09/15/08, 03:35 PM

I would guess that in a true free market system there would be no such thing as price gouging as the consumer would set the price based on what they are willing to pay.

However, back to this concept that the station owner payed X for the fuel that is in his tanks currently and he 'should not' adjust his retail price of that fuel until it is gone. When he gets a new shipment which he had to pay Y for it is "ok" for him to adjust his retail price at that time.

How many other retail outfits operate on this concept? Do the little grocery stores track the number of fruit pies they paid X for and only adjust the price when the new shipment of Y cost fruit pies come in? How about clothing stores, gun shops, feed stores, farmers markets etc etc etc???

tamilee · #16 09/15/08, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Williams

You think gas making a 1 day jump from 3.61 to 4.69 is price gouging? I think it is. Especially when the gas went in the station tanks at less than 3.65 a gallon.

Hey there AJ;
Was Georgia placed under a state of emergency due to the storms? It lasts for I think a month after (could be more) but if ANY retailer raises prices on necessities during a declared state of emergency they can be prosecuted. There was talk of this on the local news (tv) last night and it was done to warn gas stationowners of the facts. Check, ask and find out about Georgia and contact your state legislature.
tamilee

DavidUnderwood · #17 09/15/08, 07:16 PM

We were at around $3.60 one day, and
the next day some places were at $5.00.
One store about 20 miles from here was
at $7.00. That just might be gouging.

just_sawing · #18 09/15/08, 07:27 PM

Bullia Shista
The Distillery's pipe lines straight away from the distillery in order not to have a bottle neck. In the past when there was going to be a interruption they would top off the pipe line full then as the crisis was over they would fill as they could. Now they slow walk hopping for a problem. As they react they raise the price then cry that they are the victim.

tamsam · #19 09/15/08, 07:33 PM

Back in the n70s where I was in NC the price did not go up. There just wasn't enough gas to go around and you could only get so much at a time. I know because at the time I ran a repair shop at a used car dealer and we did business with a gas station across the road and I also had to go 200 mile in a wrecker to pick up a car. Although I took cans of gas with me I ran low and knew I would never make it back to Charlotte. I was in Myrtle Beach and found a gas station open at 2 in the morning and explained to the attendent my problem but he said I can only sell you 2 bucks worth at a time. I said ok no problem and pumped my 2 bucks, paid him and pumped 2 more bucks and turned off the pump and paid him. I did this until I had my tank and cans full. Again I think this is pure gouging. I have enough gas to do me till prices come down even if I put off going out. Sam

luvrulz · #20 09/15/08, 07:44 PM

It's all a crock of hooey if you ask me. I live in an area far away from the hurricane and far away from the weather resulting from that hurricane. All the gas stations from my county to the next (where I drive to work....) raised their prices to $3.99 - $4.09 and deisel dropped to $3.59 from $3.99 - $4.09. Now, I'm all for fair market and all that but like stated above, if they paid $3.35 to fill their tanks - then their markup should be on top of that -not what they think the price should be 4 states away.

It's plain gouging and they should be charged with it! If we could go somewhere else to buy our gas, we would.... But as it is, we're forced to pay their prices if we want to get to our job off the farm. A CROCK OF HOOEY! Look at their profits - is that fair??