Montana members?

Mr.Hoppes · #1 08/14/08, 07:37 AM

I have been looking at property in Montana and wondering if any one here on HST.com are from Montana?

I understand that some of the more remote areas can be rough and somewhat barren on the plains but over all how is Montana>?

http://www.rmtproperties.com/FR3.html this is one that I am looking at.
the sales person seems to be stuck on seasonal living because of the rough winter conditions. I lived extreeme cold weather living most of my life and think it is do-able, but the warning the sales person has stated has me thinking. Any one had dealings with these people?
Thanks

unioncreek · #2 08/14/08, 08:24 AM

There's a few MT people on here, I'm origanally from MT (Billings/Bozeman). Here's another property website for all states.

Bob

wy_white_wolf · #3 08/14/08, 09:45 AM

Hi,

Few from Montana as I'm living in Wyoming but have a ranch in Montana. Maybe something is wrong but your link pulls a property in Niobrara County Wyoming. Typical internet property as it is way overpriced for the area and aimed at out-of-staters. Expect drastic changes from you current location (elevation and climate).

That area olny gets about 10" of rain a year. Might not even be able to get water by drilling. The only water rights with it are for 1. Household use, 2. Watering livestock, 3. Watering trees on up too 1/4 of it for the purpose of a windbreak (the christmas tree farm and orchard have been tried and didn't work). The state can shut you down if you try to plant a garden as that is not considered as "household use."

Be sure and check on mineral rights. Doughtful they come with that property and you could wake up to a drilling rig in your front yard and not be able to stop it. Coal bed methane drilling is booming in the area.

If you look at the size of the lots they are all just over 35 acres. Smallest you can go in Wyoming without following any subdivision rules. All they have to supply is a legal description of access to it. Wether or not you can actually get there by that access is a different matter.

Roads will all be private and most likely the lots are unfenced. Some developers have been known to keep the grazing rights until you fence the area. All of Wyoming is "open range, fence out," they just clarify that by putting it in your contract. Think I'm kidding check out the BB Brooks subdivision just North of Casper.

Property taxes are not that low in Wyoming. So much of the state is fed or state (@60%) owned they need to make up for it by taxing the individuals even more.

Truely a buyer beware situation.

WWW

Judd_s · #4 08/14/08, 09:55 AM

You might want to check out this Montana Forum.

Morning Owl · #5 08/14/08, 10:06 AM

Mr.Hoppes,
I'm from Helena Montana. The reason the sales person is stuck on seasonal living isn't for the cold but for the snow. If you are ok with being snowed in a few months out of the year then no problem. But if you need to go to work, store, hospital etc.. Then you will need a 4 wheel drive truck that can be plugged in and a snow plow on the front. If you would like help finding land in Montana I would be happy to help.

Just pm me and we can talk about what your looking for. And no I'm not a real estate agent. LOL Montana is beautiful.

unioncreek · #6 08/14/08, 11:09 AM

Snow is not as big of problem as it was when I grew up there. I worked 35 miles from home and would often have my truck in 4x4 bucking drifts the whole way. My Mom (Billings area) says that they have hardly been getting anywhere near what they usually do. But, there are parts of the state that still get piles of it. It's not that bad to live in those areas you adapt to the cold and snow.

Bob

**clovis** · #7 08/14/08, 12:50 PM

I am not from Montana, but wish I could afford to summer there.

I fell in love with Montana over numerous vacations. I love the low humidity in the summer!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I were rich, I would leave Indiana for Montana the day after the Indianapolis 500 on Memorial Weekend, and return in September.

Clove

Mr.Hoppes · #8 08/14/08, 09:01 PM

I was looking there because of the low cost of property.
The owner financing was also a plus.

Fact is I don't want neighbors and I don't want to be regulated off my land.

I can see that next to where I am will be a subdivision in the near future and a realitor who said the property behind ours would be offered to the owners of this property was a lie.

Now I can see that I will be boxed in within 10 yrs and my homestead regulated out in 15-20yrs. I have a small herd of goats which I had planned on tripliing and expanding our other meat animals, chickens and rabbits. All our livestock is for food, Except the goat milk for soap as well as food. I also sell small quanities of soap and chesse.

I am looking for
hilly/ mountianous acres and little to no acess for neighbors.
No Electric Power
"Ccity" water or sewage are not wanted.
I use solar/wind for power,
an evaporator/collector for pottable water
a rain collector for animal and grey water.
Solar (non electric) heat.

I have a truck that will go anywhere in cold climate with ease.
Wife and I have lived through blizards in buffalo new york, an Mass. so snow is not an issue for us.

I am disabled Veteran so working outside our homestead isn't even possible or desired.

We store food we grow and or raise and can for the comming yr, with goals of a yrs future supply being near to complete.

Our children are homeschooled so no need for busses or a school to go to.

I just need land that I can live on in peace. Hunt and fish where applicable, and generally mind my own business. It would be nice to be near to the more traditional Midwest because of our church locations. That search hasn't provided any results.

Mr.Hoppes · #9 08/14/08, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unioncreek

There's a few MT people on here, I'm origanally from MT (Billings/Bozeman). Here's another property website for all states.

Bob

Bob I didn't get tthe link for the website, could yu post it again please?

SunRiverMan · #10 08/14/08, 10:01 PM

What I would do is find some property within driving distance of one of the major cities, Billings, Bozeman, Missoula, Kalispell, and Great Falls. Also check the highline Havre to Glasgow (jobs?). It is more expensive in the western part of the state. Good luck and wlecome to Montana. SRM out!

Big Sky Reality

Dahlquist Realtors

Cabelas Trophy Properties

HallandHall

Northwest National

Clearwater Reality

SunRiverMan · #11 08/14/08, 10:05 PM

"I am looking for
hilly/ mountianous acres and little to no acess for neighbors.
No Electric Power
"Ccity" water or sewage are not wanted.
I use solar/wind for power,
an evaporator/collector for pottable water
a rain collector for animal and grey water.
Solar (non electric) heat."

You belong in Lincoln, Montana on Highway 200 between Great Falls and Missoula. If not there, the Thompson Falls area in the western part of the state. Dearborn Creek between Great Falls and Helena, Wolf Creek, Cascade, or anything east of the Rockies and west of Interstate 15 has more wind. More than you will want. It takes getting used too.

sewtlm · #12 08/14/08, 11:38 PM

The evaporator for water may be a problem we have very low humidity think desert with grass. Dew is nonexistant and moisture is very low over at least 65% of the state.

You will need a well to get a regular amount of water and many places it will be very deep.

You will need to put up hay because grazing is only good for 4 months a year. Which means more acerage than you assume since most of MT is 1 animal unit to 10 acres. So 75 acres is really the least I would go for in the eastern part of the state where the neighbor access would be at a minimum. The western part of the state is more populated and land is more expensive than what is being advertised on the web site you are looking at.

As to neighbors its a long way to anywhere here. Most people have a "ranch" and a town house for winter since most towns don't have hotels. And our county doesn't have rural mail delivery you must come to town and pick up your mail.

We love it here so please don't think these remarks are meant to be negative I just am a realist.

SFM in KY · #13 08/15/08, 07:13 AM

I was born and raised and lived much of my adult life in Montana, just north of Sheridan, WY ... I loved it.

The winters didn't bother me since I grew up with them and by the time I was an adult, the 60 miles from the ranch to town was a lot easier than when I was growing up.

In most places in Montana, the biggest problem is water ... not much rain and in some places you have to drill 400' plus to water ... and again in some places, you have trouble finding usable water. If you're lucky you will get a high enough producing well to water a garden ... but not always lucky.

The 10 acres per animal unit depends on the animal. We figured 20 acres per cow/calf pair or per horse ... and we were in an area where we got good snow in the winter, more rain than some areas and good summer grass. There were places not too far from our community where ranchers figured 40 acres per cow/calf pair.

You don't get a "second growth" of grass unless it is along a creek bottom where there is sub-irrigation ... or you are in an area where you can irrigate (which is probably not going to be something you can get in a more remote area). I'm in KY now and we can graze down a pasture, mow and after a couple of rains, we can turn out on it again. This doesn't happen in Montana ... you get spring growth with the snow melt/ spring rains but when it is grazed down it's through for the season. You don't get enough summer rain to produce another "crop" of grass.

You will have plenty of wind for wind power systems ... that will not be a problem.

You're going to be surprised at the short growing season for gardens.

Almost anyplace in the western portion of Montana is going to be pricey ... summer homes/ retirement homes for people ... as ranches are sold they are snapped up by developers, subdivided and sold as "ranchettes". And much of that land is marketed more for it's "looks" than it's productive qualities.

I've been gone from the area for 10 years now but I suspect it hasn't changed a lot as far as real estate/ land purchases. The biggest problem most people have is they really don't want/ can't afford a "working ranch" of several hundred acres and up but it is almost impossible to buy 20 to 120 acres without ending up buying from a developer, who obviously has plans to sell the other acreages to other buyers who aren't looking for working ranch acreages.

ceresone · #14 08/15/08, 07:33 AM

Hummm, Theres places in Missouri that fit the requirements.

LisaInN.Idaho · #15 08/15/08, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunRiverMan

[ If not there, the Thompson Falls area in the western part of the state. Dearborn Creek between Great Falls and Helena, Wolf Creek, Cascade, or anything east of the Rockies and west of Interstate 15 has more wind. More than you will want. It takes getting used too.

The Thompson Falls area is beautiful (practically part of our neighborhood!). Here's a link to a realtor there:http://www.realty-northwest.com/Thom...ls-Montana.htm

Dave · #16 08/18/08, 11:59 PM

That seems a bit expensive for the area. I would also want to know what the water well situation is around there. It can vary widely in that and many other parts of Montana. I've seen dry land areas where water is found 20 feet down. Go 20 miles and 400' won't even find water.

When they say seasonal, they usually mean it. No truck known to man will go on some of those roads in the winter. Solar heat might be a bit tough on those days it doesn't get above 0 and the windchill is about -40...

East coast blizzards can be nasty but nowhere close to parts of Montana. A vehicle break down 5-10 miles from home can lead to death if you're not prepared for it. You don't see that back east unless the person is intoxicated.

I lived in Yellowstone county for a few years and before that had been spending time near Ryegate area since I was a little kid.

emulkahi1 · #17 08/19/08, 09:58 AM

Hi there Mr. Hoppes! I live about 50 miles north of Billings in central MT. I agree w/ the others that have said that one of the biggest issues is WATER. I grew up in the mtns of VA and barely gave water a thought when we bought our place here. Now, with the 10 acres we just bought, wells and the water rights that went with them (irrigation vs stock, etc....) were one of the first 2 things we talked about w/ the seller. With less than 10 in. of precip. annually you end up relying heavily on access to some sort of irrigation for anything that you grow. Check on the quality of the water too.....ours here in town corrodes copper pipes. Water heaters last usually less than 5 yrs and we've already replaced our lifetime guarantee (bought new 5 yrs ago) tub fixtures once.

As for snow here....we've hardly had any since I've lived here. Occasionally there's been a snowstorm that dropped a couple of feet, but it usually didn't last very long. (Not much rain, not much snow either...). Also, yes, there are usually a few weeks (not always consecutive) where it drops to -30 or so and stays there. But, before long, it gets back up into the teens. I hear that this is drastically different than winters of old around here. An old timer friend of ours talks about waking up one Oct. morning not long after he moved here (50 or so yrs ago) with snow up above the bottom of his window pane. He says it stayed there till April, lol. I've lived here 6 yrs now and haven't seen anything like that....but w/ this wacky weather lately, one never knows.

I agree about knowing about your mineral and timber rights. Though, I believe that it is uncommon to be able to purchase the mineral rights w/ your property. I could be wrong about that--so someone please correct me if so. But we were told that most of the state's mineral rights were bought up by mining companies way back when. However, sometimes they are not owned at all (? I think if the company that bought them went belly up or something) and you should know about that if that is the case...so that you can buy them. Rather than having a coal bed methane company getting them instead. Timber rights are also important to know about, so that someone doesn't show up and claim the trees that are on your property one day.

Sounds dire, but these are just things to be aware of when asking questions/signing papers on your potential piece of property.

Lincoln is a nice area. We spent a summer there working on ae forest service trail crew and we still visit often enough as we have friends there (one of which, coincidentally, is a very honest realtor--if you were interested :baby04: ). Everything I said about 'not much snow' etc up above is null and void when it comes to that area though, lol. Our friends still do have their cabin door get snowed shut. It rains there more too. It is definitely mountainous, and we were just hearing stories of a grizzly that had the habit of strolling through some of the town's neighborhoods, w/ her cubs in tow. Very short growing season though, so a greenhouse of some sort would probably be a must if you wanted to grow stuff like tomatoes and squash.

My DH and I really like the Lewistown, MT area. Apparently (according to some old timers here) the natives used to call that area the 'snow bowl', as it gets lots more moisture than here. It is in the Judith mtns, which aren't the sheer rocky faces like in Glacier. But they are beautiful nonetheless. It is less expensive than western MT, but more expensive than the dry, flat, windblown land of eastern MT. It is starting to get developed a bit, but not nearly as much as the larger city areas (Bozeman, Missoula, etc).

Oh, one more suggestion. See if you can find local real estate agency links. As someone said up above.....there are companies (like Rocky Mtn Timberlands) that market to wealthy out-of-staters. You will find listings more representative of the areas your are property-hunting in if you can somehow get hooked up with a local agent. For instance, here are a couple from Lewistown:
http://lewistownmontanarealestate.com/pages/
http://www.shobeauction-realty.com/index.shtml

And here are a couple from the Roundup area (where we live):
http://www.a-roundtown.com/
http://www.bigmrealty.com/properties.php

Anyway, I'll stop rambling now. Hope all this helps! I wish you luck finding your place!!

Erin