What to do with 15 acres of hay?

Sheripoms · #1 08/12/08, 07:34 PM

Hey guys, I have 15 acres that we have just been letting a guy mow and take the hay now for about 10 years. Just for keeping it cut for us because I don't have the tractors etc... to do it. And my husband is disabled and couldn't do it anyway. So here is my question. Am I stupid?
Seriously I really think we could be doing something with this land but not sure what. At least asking someone to pay us to cut it? Am I right?
2 sides are fenced. I thought about fencing the other 2 and getting some cows, but not sure if I could take care of them myself. Anyway , any ideas?

MamaTiger · #2 08/12/08, 08:33 PM

At the least you should be getting half the hay bales in return and those you could sell.

Minelson · #3 08/12/08, 09:45 PM

I have 3 acres that are cut and baled into small squares by a neighbor. It's not "good enough" for my horses (I'm VERY picky) and so he sells it and then gets some hay that will pass my inspection and gives me a deal on the price (2.50-3.00 a bale) and delivers it and stacks it in my barn. There are lot's of deals you can make out there...right now with the price of hay you are getting the short end of the deal. Does he do any other favors for you? Like taking care of the homestead while you go on vacation? Another thing you can do is lease the land to someone who wants to plant a crop (even if it's hay) and they seed, fertalize or make improvements for their own benefit. You caould also lease it for horse pasture or cow pasture...the pasture across the road from us is leased for cattle...they just put them in there and drive by every now and then and count them. Have them put the rest of the fence up and give them a good deal

Ravenlost · #4 08/12/08, 09:52 PM

We have 20+ acres that we let someone cut for hay every year. In exchange they leave us 5 (round) bales for our horses.

tab · #5 08/13/08, 07:38 AM

We have about 28 acres we let a farmer take the first and third cutting from and we take the second. Sometimes we take it all and sometimes we don't depending on the yield. He keeps the land up to snuff. If he decides to plow and plant corn we are supposed to get our barn filled with hay from somewhere else So far (several years) it has been a good deal for both of us.

My thought is I might chat with the guy that does your field. Does he do anything to keep the land up like resow, fertilze? If he doesn't, I think I would put out some "feelers" as to someone else taking over as the land is not going to be worth much just taking from it, depending on your current agreement and what you come away with after you chat. He may be willing to alter the agreement. Afterall, hay and everything else have changed in prices in the last ten years. If you have buildings to store hay, it might be feasible to take some and sell. Keep in mind there is a lot of "manpower" involved in putting away little square bales and equipment if it is big bales. There is also an investment in fencing and animals if you decide to go that route. How much time and sweat can you invest? Is your dh able to care for animals, is it something he might enjoy or hate?

sheepish · #6 08/13/08, 09:01 AM

In our area, rent is only paid if the hay crop is good and was put in by the owner. We "rent" about 70 acres with no dollars paid to the owner of the land. We put in the crop and maintain it with fertilizer. In fact, when we were not able to work some of the land, we sold the standing hay crop for $1 a small square bale to another farmer.

The benefit to the owner is that their taxes are substantially lower having their land in farm production, rather than being just part of a country lot. Their land is also maintained neatly, rather than reverting to scrub trees.

minnikin1 · #7 08/13/08, 09:57 AM

The worst problem I see with your arrangement is (it sounds like) he is taking off nutrients year after year and doing nothing to replenish them.

Taking none of the hay for yourself is not typical but if it means your place gets some maintenance, that can be a reasonable trade for some folks.

But if he's not manuring or green manuring - this is horrible for your soil and will cost you dearly down the line.

BethW · #8 08/13/08, 10:29 AM

We have neighbors who hay about 6 acres of our property. They seed, fertilize, and lime when needed. It's worth it to us as it keeps the fields maintained with no headache for us. On occasion, we've asked for a (large round) bale or two, but nothing more. It works for us.

Kevingr · #9 08/13/08, 01:22 PM

We have 7 acres that the neighbor hays, he maintains it, plows, fertilizes it etc. He pays me $30/acre but I trade that $ value in hay since I need it for my horses. In the past I had a deal with a guy for 1/4 of the crop, but he wasn't a good steward of the field so I opted for this new guy who I prefer.

ErinP · #10 08/13/08, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minnikin1

The worst problem I see with your arrangement is (it sounds like) he is taking off nutrients year after year and doing nothing to replenish them.

Taking none of the hay for yourself is not typical but if it means your place gets some maintenance, that can be a reasonable trade for some folks.

But if he's not manuring or green manuring - this is horrible for your soil and will cost you dearly down the line.

Unless it's prairie hay. In which case, it's probably fine as is.

So far as the original question, I agree that a 50/50 split is customary but that deals can be worked out to be more useful for both parties. If you currently don't care, it's fine. You're obviously happy.
But, if you've decided you might like to consider your share maybe talk to him and see if he might re-imburse you for your half of the hay that you're not taking...

THETOOLMAN · #11 08/13/08, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepish

In our area, rent is only paid if the hay crop is good and was put in by the owner. We "rent" about 70 acres with no dollars paid to the owner of the land. We put in the crop and maintain it with fertilizer. In fact, when we were not able to work some of the land, we sold the standing hay crop for $1 a small square bale to another farmer.

The benefit to the owner is that their taxes are substantially lower having their land in farm production, rather than being just part of a country lot. Their land is also maintained neatly, rather than reverting to scrub trees.

are you KIDDING? That would be 110% unacceptable

ErinP · #12 08/13/08, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THETOOLMAN

are you KIDDING? That would be 110% unacceptable

Sure it is! So long as you're not the landowner... lol

(Why can't we ever find deals like that?)

Sheripoms · #13 08/13/08, 06:43 PM

Hey, thanks for all the suggestions. I might have him give me at least 10 % .
My mom(who grew up around the great depression) keeps saying, why not put a couple cows out there. But I am not very savvy on what it takes to take care of a couple cows. Cost etc... Since it's just me and my hubby we really don't eat alot of meat . I guess we could sell them.

haypoint · #14 08/14/08, 01:15 AM

Around here there are lots of fields, mostly timothy or trefoil and grass. If you don't want/need the hay you may be able to get a local farmer to take the hay off. If you want to get half of it or get paid, generally you won't get it mowed at all. Then the following year no one will want it because of all the dead grass from last year that will get into the hay. A few years of letting the weeds go to seed and it's worthless. Then the brush takes hold and you no longer have a field.

If that sounds like a lousy deal, buy the mower conditioner, tractor, rake, baler, wagons, build a storage barn and put in a fuel storage tank and get it filled. Pay cash for it, because there are years when you won't get a crop or gets rained on. Plan on missing a few days from your in-town job, because you'll need to cut and bale on days when the weather is right and that might not be the weekend. If you do small square bales, plan for someone (you?) to ride the wagon, stacking the bales. If you want to do round bales, be sure that your tractor has a loader on it and then buy a bale spear.

Anyone who says, "Just put a few cows out there" hasn't raised cows. What do you feed them in the winter? How much does fencing cost? How do you provide water? Where will you store the grain you need to feed them? After you buy hay, where will you store it? How do you get a cow to your place? How do you market them?

Just think of it as a 15 acre lawn that you don't have to pay to get it cut.

Jennifer L. · #15 08/14/08, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Around here there are lots of fields, mostly timothy or trefoil and grass. If you don't want/need the hay you may be able to get a local farmer to take the hay off. If you want to get half of it or get paid, generally you won't get it mowed at all. Then the following year no one will want it because of all the dead grass from last year that will get into the hay. A few years of letting the weeds go to seed and it's worthless. Then the brush takes hold and you no longer have a field.

If that sounds like a lousy deal, buy the mower conditioner, tractor, rake, baler, wagons, build a storage barn and put in a fuel storage tank and get it filled. Pay cash for it, because there are years when you won't get a crop or gets rained on. Plan on missing a few days from your in-town job, because you'll need to cut and bale on days when the weather is right and that might not be the weekend. If you do small square bales, plan for someone (you?) to ride the wagon, stacking the bales. If you want to do round bales, be sure that your tractor has a loader on it and then buy a bale spear.

Anyone who says, "Just put a few cows out there" hasn't raised cows. What do you feed them in the winter? How much does fencing cost? How do you provide water? Where will you store the grain you need to feed them? After you buy hay, where will you store it? How do you get a cow to your place? How do you market them?

Just think of it as a 15 acre lawn that you don't have to pay to get it cut.

Exactly. It's not like they are getting that hay for free, there are a lot of costs associated with harvesting. There are also costs associated with land ownership, one of which is keeping it mowed if you don't want it to grow up to brush.

Not that you shouldn't revisit the deal once in awhile, but if you want to keep the place looking good and don't want the considerable expense of keeping the place mowed yourself, then don't be too concerned about the farmer being paid for doing the mowing by taking the hay. The only way I'd change the deal would be if I had animals myself, then having a share of the hay back would make sense.

Jennifer

sheepish · #16 08/14/08, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THETOOLMAN

are you KIDDING? That would be 110% unacceptable

We sold the crop because we consider it to be part of our responsibility to the landowner to keep the land productive and neat. If we had not found someone else to cut and bale, it would have started the process of going to weeds.

I didn't mention that in our town the dollar value in taxes of having land in farm production vs "big country lot" is over $250 per acre.

If you were a non-farming country landowner which would you choose: Pay the town an extra $250 an acre and let your property revert to weeds, or buy your own equipment or pay someone to keep it neat. Or would you pay $250 per acre less in taxes and have a responsible farmer crop it and maintain it for you at no cost to you?

In the 25 years we have worked our arrangement with 14 owners of small acreage no one has ever charged us or decided that it was a better deal to work their own land. In fact, one owner of 15 acres brings us a gift every Christmas.

We do give the owners of larger parcels part of a lamb each year as a thank you, but it is not part of the payment deal.

rambler · #17 08/14/08, 11:01 PM

It depends on your location & situation.

If the land is used for ag purposes, some states give you a big tax break on property taxes. You might be making a lot just in tax break by his using your field for ag purposes, and it is common to let him have it for free.

As you say, keeping the weeds down, that is worth something, so you are getting some value from all this.

In other areas, where land is more valuable & better crops - not just jumk hay - grows, it is more common for the owner to recieve 1/3 to 1/2 of the hay, and the fella doing the work gets the rest. With the price of fuel & twine & all rising, we are getting closer to the 1/3 number; used to be half & half for a long time.

If you as the land owner maintain a good grass/ alfalfa mix, and soil test & apply fertilizers to make a good crop, then you are back to the 50-50 share.

Some places you just charge a per acre rent, and the fella can plant any crop he wants. Typically then you get into what all is allowed, and soil fertility must be maintained, etc.

Your current arrangement does not sound at all unusual. Nor would I say you are being taken advatage of.

You may be able to get a bit better deal, 1/3 of the hay, or some $$$ per acre. You may end up with a different person renting it tho, after 10 years, it will be hard to change this relationship of 'free' unless you are willing to add fertilizer or better seed to improve the harvest....

If you have no need for hay, you can sell it for market price - remember rough hay from unfertilized field is _not_ premo quality - or sell it to the fella cutting it.

Fencing & raising your own livestock can be cool, but plan to lose money for several years on that deal - the costs & learning curve are steep to start out, one dead gritter & you take a huge step backwards..... It will ocst you more $$$ to raise your own critters than your current deal.

--->Paul

nathan104 · #18 08/14/08, 11:14 PM

Second the location and situation remark.

If he has taken care of the field for the last ten years, every year even if it was drought and poor production or if you got plenty of rain and everyone had a bunch of hay, I think its not a bad deal if he does a good job, and you have no other use for the land. I had five acres here last year I was begging on graigslist and freecycle for someone to come hay it for free. Had no takers though. Now I just go out there and shred it all. If you have a use for some hay, Id reccomend asking him to leave some for you. If you dont, then just let it be the way it is.

crafty2002 · #19 08/14/08, 11:36 PM

Without trying to steal the thread, can I ask about how many small bails you can get from an acre if it is good soil to start with???

fantasymaker · #20 08/15/08, 01:19 PM

we get from 0 to 480 bales a year to the acre depending on how its taken care of the weather and the original soil. Id say around here about 120 bales year to the acre is normal.
Your deal is just that your deal. Can you get a better one? Maybe ask around and see what is normal in your area. Also consider is your field normal in your area ?If its hard to get to or minimally productive you have to take that in to consideration. There are fields here we cant be paid to do, we have others we pay $120 an acre a year for or half the production.
Maybe the guy has been very faithfull because its a good deal for him,if you take more of the crop the quality of the deal goes down till it hits the point he walks away.