Need a temperature alarm for hay

[jennigrey]

I want to put some temperature sensors in a few different places in my hay stack and have the sensors monitored automatically. I want the monitoring device to sound an alarm if the temperature reaches a dangerous level which I will specify.

I know such a beast exists. Can someone point me in the right direction?

[Windy in Kansas]

I expect what would work well for you is a thermocouple system that feeds into your computer.

http://www.safegrain.com/
http://www.omega.com/temperature/tsc.html
http://temputech.com/frogsandgrain.htm
Will this page help? http://www.grainbins.com/TempMonitoring-HowitWorks.htm or this one?
http://sensors-transducers.globalspe...oisture_sensor

[Windy in Kansas]

By the way, I realize the links I posted mostly show grain probes but the companies should be able to provide probes for hay.

[jennigrey]

To communicate with my computer, it would have to have a wireless transmitter, and I've had poor luck with wireless devices trying to transmit through the metal skin of our home.

I'm really just looking for something with an audible tone (preferrably rather loud and insistent) and the capacity to handle say four sensors simultaneously without having to manually switch between the four. Also, I want the alarm to go off at a user-determined temperature.

I have looked through a few of the links you have provided, but not in-depth. A couple look way too complicated for my requirements. I'll look a bit more later. Thank you!!!!!

[DaleK]

Yep talk to grain bin companies. Some of the simpler ones either have an alarm mounted on the bin or a light that flashes or both. Not sure how much adjustment there is on the temps though.

[Tiffin]

DH and I think hay catching fire is a myth. Yeh, the farmers tell you it has happened but where is the proof. Why don't compost heaps catch fire? Barns burning down blamed on hay is really some kid with matches. I'm going to send it in to Myth Busters.

[sammyd]

Compost heaps don't catch fire because they aren't surrounded by tons of other flammable material. They are out in the open and although get hot they don't get as hot as hay that is not in a place that is ventilated like that. Which is why in older loose hay setups before modern hay equipment there were often special sections of ventilation cages that were placed in the mow.
Even haylage put in a silo at improper moisture usually not wet enough) can catch fire and kids with matches don't climb into silos.

[ozark mike]

Tiffin,,, every Saturday and Sunday, when we were kids, we would go to the local dump and shoot about a case of .22 shells...out of about 500 shells we would shoot and kill about 498 rats.... the man that owned the dump had a steel rod in the ground in the dumping area... when he would pull it out of the ground it would be a glowing red color...many nights the sky would be bright red with flames from that dump where the garbage heating and rotting would get just the right amount of air to set it in flames. as far as you thinking hay fires are a myth, go ahead and put up some hay that is not dry enough to be baled and stacked tight...go ahead and put it in your barn...when the firetrucks arive are you going to tell them the the neighbor kids were playing with matches...the heating of vegetation is real and does exist... in the old days we would put a layer of salt between the layers of hay bales being stacked to prevent spontaneous combustion fires

[Tiffin]

I had read some article on the internet that it's bacteria that heats up damp hay but once it gets up to a certain temperature the bacteria dies and the hay dries. I'm still looking for the proof of hay or haylage catching fire spontaneously without some outside source to ignite. Hay certainly will burn. We had some old large round bales when we bought our farm that we deliberately set fire to. Even though they had been outside for years, were soggy in the middle, one match and off it went. By the way previous owners of our farm did send their kids in the silo before they got a mechanical unloader.

[Tiffin]

I heard the salt thing before but don't understand how that would prevent fires. I'm not a believer. More proof. My reason for not having damp hay in the barn is that it will get moldy (that's the bacteria rotting) and the cows won't eat it. This happened to us last year. We ended up using a good part of the bales that were on the floor as bedding. We were going to put down pallets this year but the hay seemed dry enough so we didn't bother.

[artificer]

Originally Posted by Tiffin

I had read some article on the internet that it's bacteria that heats up damp hay but once it gets up to a certain temperature the bacteria dies and the hay dries. I'm still looking for the proof of hay or haylage catching fire spontaneously without some outside source to ignite. Hay certainly will burn. We had some old large round bales when we bought our farm that we deliberately set fire to. Even though they had been outside for years, were soggy in the middle, one match and off it went. By the way previous owners of our farm did send their kids in the silo before they got a mechanical unloader.

The problem is: what would you accept as "proof". Hay fires have been a fact of life for decades. They may not be common, but almost every farmer know someone that has had one. (may be regional
)

Take a look at this link. They explain how the fires can start. I had always wondered.
Short summary is: bugs eat hay, heat it up, die. If bales cools, then no problem. If they don't cool, different bugs that like heat eat it, and it heats up more. Bugs leave a special form of carbon behind that can spontaniously combust at lower temps. Barn fire...

Michael

[artificer]

I forgot to put the switch info in the post, which is what I had origanly intended...

Do you want to measure at a bunch of locations? If so, then cost is the major concern. Take a look at snap action disk thermostats. Mouser has them for $4 each.

Pick up a car horn, wire all of the sensors in parrallel, then the car horn, add a battery and a trickle charger and you're set.

I would put the sensors in either a ziplock bag, match box, or a small plastic project box to keep the sensor functing properly. They can't be squezzed, or they will operate at the wrong temp.

Pick one that closes at the proper temp. Not sure what that would be. 150deg F?

Michael

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by Tiffin

I had read some article on the internet that it's bacteria that heats up damp hay but once it gets up to a certain temperature the bacteria dies and the hay dries. I'm still looking for the proof of hay or haylage catching fire spontaneously without some outside source to ignite. Hay certainly will burn. We had some old large round bales when we bought our farm that we deliberately set fire to. Even though they had been outside for years, were soggy in the middle, one match and off it went. By the way previous owners of our farm did send their kids in the silo before they got a mechanical unloader.

Tiffin:

Come to Grabill and I'll show you three barns that burned last month due to hay fires. Talk your insurance agent about hay fire coverage, it is REAL!!!!!!

Jim

[Michael W. Smith]

Yep, hay catching on fire is real. If you don't believe it, get several bales of hay that aren't dried properly, stack them on top of each other and side by side.

After several days, unstack them and see how warm the internal bales are. And it's easy enough to get some hay that isn't cured or dried enough. If you have a partial field where the soil is damp and wet or where the wind and sun don't get to the hay due to trees around, the majority of the hay will be fine, but once you get to that area, you have wet, very heavy hay bales.

My Dad bales hay for his cows, and any bales that are heavy are left out of the hay mow and fed to the cattle ASAP. Also, even when putting in dry hay and once a level of hay bales are put down, we grab handfuls of salt and toss around - the salt acts as a dessicant and pulls the moisture out of the bales. We know barn fires happen and we take all precautions.

[seedspreader]

For you tiffin...

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...s/hayfires.htm

Here is a news report:
http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/25615459.html

The fire marshal (Hey, what's he know...) believes it:
http://www.acorn-online.com/joomla15...cal&Itemid=123

These firefighters take it as a truth:
http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/25742579.html

(All of those articles are from with in the last month)

Scientifically speaking...
Scientific American has this article dated from 1928: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...4/322-a?ck=nck At which time they didn't understand the process but were beginning study... and OBSERVED the fire starting.

and finally BioLine has this GREAT article:
http://www.bioline.org.br/request?au97017

It's interesting that ancients knew of it:

The phenomena of exploding haystacks has been with mankind for as long as he has been making hay. Pliny, the Roman Philosopher wrote in 60BC "When the grass is cut it should be turned towards the sun and must never be stacked until it is quite dry. If this last precaution is not carefully taken a kind of vapour will be seen arising from the rick in the morning, and as soon as the sun is up it will ignite to a certainty, and so be consumed."

(from the BioLine article).

Hopefully, that's enough proof for you.

[scorpian5]

One of the biggest problems in idiot bales is people stack them too tight and fill there barns as full as they can. Most of the time you hear about a farmer losing a barn full of hay is when that farmer baled his hay to wet and put it away wet.

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by scorpian5

One of the biggest problems in idiot bales is people stack them too tight and fill there barns as full as they can. Most of the time you hear about a farmer losing a barn full of hay is when that farmer baled his hay to wet and put it away wet.

This is why Hay Production is a complicated process and not for the faint of heart. Even dedicated Hay Farmers have issues with dry down of their crop.

To help us combat the weather and drying conditions we utilize many tools in our hay operation. We have moisture probes with us in the field and a baler mounted moisture tester.

We also have a supply of Buffered Propionic acid to use as a mold inhibitor in higher moisture hay. We use this when trying to beat the weather or if we are having issue with stems drying in humid conditions. Our equipment line up includes a tedder and a rotary rake to harvest the sun's drying energy to produce our hay.

We take hay production seriously as it is our main crop.

Jim

[Cygnet]

There's a hay fire around here at least once a month, often at the dairies where they lose $$$,$$$ in alfalfa.

I've seen manure spontaneously combust.

I also had a #@$% thoroughbred who was a horribly messy eater -- his hay always ended up on the ground, peed on or (deliberately) dumped in his water. I would throw it in a compost bin planning to use it in the garden ... it never actually caught fire, but it got warm enough to smolder.

So, yeah. Under the right conditions hay will combust.

(Though I've often been suspicious of the timing on hay fires at the dairies. Yep, could be spontaneous combustion. Could also be a farmer in need of some liquid cash, with a bucket of gasoline and a match.)

-- Leva

[Tiffin]

This is so much fun. Get's everyone reading, thinking, typing. I haven't had a chance to read all the links from "seedspreader" although I have seen some already, but here's one that I found amusing. http://www.boston.com/news/odd/artic...amed_for_fire/ This isn't hay related but spontaneous combustion. So many people have container flowers on their porch or deck well no more; no can do. They just go right up in flames. How nieve can these people be with a 17 year old in the house? Insurance covered this? Yikes.
"LazyJ:" My insurance does cover the barn; a fire, is a fire regardless how it started unless it is determined suspicious but if hay is in the mow then it's autimatically called a hay fire so covered.

[Tiffin]

Scientifically speaking...
Scientific American has this article dated from 1928: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...4/322-a?ck=nck At which time they didn't understand the process but were beginning study... and OBSERVED the fire starting.
This isn't scientific when they ended the article with: The urgent need for extensive research upon the problem of the "spontaneous" heating of farm products was emphasized by the lack of scientific knowledge with which to meet the situation.