bobcat compact tractors

[pheasantplucker]

see that Bobcat has entered the compact tractor market. Anybody have one or know of someone who does? What's the verdict? Bobcat has a pretty good reputation, so I don't think they're going to put their name on junk...would like other's opinions...

[Scrounger]

All they are is a rebadged Kioti tractor. Made in Korea.
I'd stay away from them. Some people like them (Kioti) but, the ones I know wish they'd bought a different machine. OK Yuppie tractor for a small acerage......

[sugarbush]

Most tractor are rebadged. Going way back you had tractors like Same, Long, and Fords that where all the same. It does not mean they are a bad tractor, but you have to watch out when buying one with a good brandname on it because you will pay more for it.

I have very little experience with Kioti, but I rank them along side of the smaller kabotas.

[Gary in ohio]

Rebadging is pretty much the norm in small compacts, John Deere are yanmars.
NH, Ford as all longs, cub cadet diesels new line is now yanmar. Kubota is very popular and its staight from japan. Kioti is korean , Mahindra is Indian, both are a lower cost alternative to JD and kubota and while they have good repair records and parts availab lity they are not JD quality. I would stay away from the chineese tractrs that are popping up everywhere. They are getting better now that they need to meet new EPA rules that forced re-designs but there still have issues and parts are not as readly available as others. I have had yanmar's, both grey market and US market versions and those are nice, reapairs are pretty much up to you but parts are available for the common models, they are cost effective and real work horses.

[Beeman]

You might want to research the Bobcat company, I believe I heard they were bought out. If it's true it's probably not for the better for the dealer or consumer.

[Scrounger]

It's not the "rebadging" that is the problem - it's WHAT that has been rebadged.....

[Windy in Kansas]

A little thread drift if I might--When was the Melroe Company named dropped from the product line? They used to be Melroe Bobcat skidsteer loarders with Bobcat being the model designation along with numbers.

[Beeman]

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotSt...23327120070730

Here it is, Bobcat bought by Doonan.

[agmantoo]

Ingersoll Rand is restructuring its product offerings. After selling Bobcat to Doosan, IR bought Trane. IR is getting out of equipment that has been subject to extreme business cycles. It would not surprise me to see IR sell off its compressor business. They have already dropped the very small compressors.

[Windy in Kansas]

Thanks. I wasn't aware of the sale.

I have operated some Ingersoll Rand construction equipment and it seems pretty good, specifically a single drum vibratory compactor.

[Rowdy]

Originally Posted by Scrounger

All they are is a rebadged Kioti tractor. Made in Korea.
I'd stay away from them. Some people like them (Kioti) but, the ones I know wish they'd bought a different machine. OK Yuppie tractor for a small acerage......

I just bought a Kioti after a bit or research. They are strong machines, and I will put my CK35 up against the same class of tractor in green (3320). They are compact utility tractors, not ag machines (so is the 3320 from John deere, or for that matter the 790/3305.) No, Kioti is not the same machine as a 4020, and there are things about the Kioti I do not like, but at $7,000 less than JD for the same class of machine, I'll will be okay with just my shuttle shift and not a power reverser.

I can't comment on everything yet, as that I'm not quite up to the first 50 hour service, but when I run my tractor, I tend to run it for ten hours at a time, and hard. The Kioti has not let me down.

Here is my review of the tractor from another forum:

Bad: The location of the fuel tank (and the folding cover, and to a lesser extent, the fel's hyd lines) make this machine much easier to refuel with a pump than a fuel can. In fact, it almost promises a spill, even with a funnel. Now that I have a way to unload full barrels of diesel, I'll start using bulk fuel again with my transfer pump, so this won't be a problem for long I guess.

The hood and the fuel tank location make it hard to power a transfer pump from the tractor's battery and fuel the tractor. I've not studied the angles of it all, so this might not be as bad as I think.

The fuel tank is a bit small. I firmly believe that a machine's fuel tank should get it through a full days work, which I consider 10-12 hours. At about .75 gallons an hour, it will barely get through a ten hour day. My calculations might be a little off. This is the first tank I've run through it, and only used the gauge, and did not actually stab the tank. (Still, I don't want to run the tank that low anyway.)

The level indicator on the bucket is not accurate. This is annoying, and once I get used to this particular loader, I'll probably never look at it again, but I'll still probably take a saw to it. (To be fair I've run into this problem on construction equipment anywhere from a case 580 backhoe to a cat 988 loader)

Less than 15 hours on the machine, and things are falling off. Nothing major, just that the glue holding the little placard on the shuttle shift lever gave way, and the knob on the FWD shifter came off. I've gone through and tightened everything I could think to put a wrench on, so this should no longer be a problem. I believe this is a dealer issue, as in they did not set the machine up correctly.

The front bucket is too small. The CK has more than enough power to have a little more capacity in the bucket as a standard feature. Perhaps not any wider, just a bit deeper.

The shuttle is not quite as smooth as I would like. It takes a little effort, and the action of having to lift the shifter kinda irks me. Not a major issue, especially on an economy machine.


Good:
This little machine has an amazing amount of power. Even without ballast on the rear, the loader is powerful, and the controls are quick and strong. With ballast, the machine is even more amazing for its size.

The telescoping ends on the 3 point hitch are nice, and make hooking up quite easy. The sway bars are easy to adjust, and the little bracket to keep the top link out of the way is quite handy! In fact, the entire three point hitch on this tractor is pretty darn good. I've hooked up almost all of my attachments(landscape rake, yanmar tiller, woven wire stretcher, shredder, middle buster, grubber) and everything was cake. I even hooked up the little 4' king kutter XB box blade, which has cat 0 spacing. I didn't get to hook up the PHD, as that my brother is borrowing it.

The operator's station is pretty roomy, even for a big guy like me. The integrated fel control is perfect (and one of the reasons I picked this machine over the branson.) The lift controls are easy to reach and to use, making fine work with things like rakes, blades, boxblades much easier on the hand.

The ROPS is pretty easy to fold down, and to put back up. Makes it a lot easier to get around the trees.


Conclusion: I do not regret buying this machine at all. Some of the faults are probably the dealer's, and some others are just personal preference. There are a few changes I'll end up making, like welding some chain hooks on the bucket, along with the bracket that'll hold my pallet forks (and later, brush rake) in place.

I'll most more of this review after I reach and finish the 50 hour service.

[pheasantplucker]

thanks for the replies all...

[rambler]

Originally Posted by Gary in ohio

Rebadging is pretty much the norm in small compacts, John Deere are yanmars.
NH, Ford as all longs, cub cadet diesels new line is now yanmar. Kubota is very popular and its staight from japan. Kioti is korean , Mahindra is Indian, both are a lower cost alternative to JD and kubota and while they have good repair records and parts availab lity they are not JD quality. I would stay away from the chineese tractrs that are popping up everywhere. They are getting better now that they need to meet new EPA rules that forced re-designs but there still have issues and parts are not as readly available as others. I have had yanmar's, both grey market and US market versions and those are nice, reapairs are pretty much up to you but parts are available for the common models, they are cost effective and real work horses.

Gary, Ford/NH compact tractors have always been Shibaura of Japan, never Yanmar.

Long has had a rather colorful history of changed owners/ operations, I don't think they are Yanmar?

John Deere has had a long history with Yanmar, most small JD tractors have at least some drivetrain coming from Yanmar.

Kubota has a good long history as it's own good machine.

Yanmar has it's own tractors with possibly similar but different specs than the JD lineup, often the Yanmar is build weaker/ cheaper than a 'similar' JD. But still a good machine.

I would put Kubota, JD, Ford/NH on a par as the better models.

The Indian & Korean companies are 2nd level. Yanmar seems to be on this level as well.

Chineese made machines are at the bottom.

Grey market is an interesting situation - often a good machine from Japan, but it is used (or can't be sold in the USA), and has a limited parts supply & support here. This makes them a good buy until something breaks, and then you might be waiting 6 months to find a repair part..... You can buy a good machine for a cheap price & take your chances with breakdowns is what it comes to.


The Bobcat tractor is an interesting thing. Will take a few years to see if Bobcat survives, if the new tractors are good, and if the dealer network holds up. Bobcat was basically thorwn to the wolves with the sale of that division, and a company that hasn't operated in the USA in retail sales very much is now running them. With the slow ecconomy in the housing bubiness but good farm ecconomy, will be something to see if they make the business work. Far, far too early to say if it is a good machine or will be around in 10 years.

--->Paul

[Rowdy]

Originally Posted by rambler

Grey market is an interesting situation - often a good machine from Japan, but it is used (or can't be sold in the USA), and has a limited parts supply & support here. This makes them a good buy until something breaks, and then you might be waiting 6 months to find a repair part..... You can buy a good machine for a cheap price & take your chances with breakdowns is what it comes to.

Well, this was once true, and still true with certain models, but parts are getting eaiser to find everyday. Sites like http://www.hoyetractor.com have a very wide selection of parts for alot of yanmar tractors, and their online catalog is very easy to browse. There is some risk involved with buying a grey market tractor, if you just buy from anyone. There are quite a few importers across the country that warrenty their imported tractors, and take great pride in their rebuilds.

The Bobcat tractor is an interesting thing. Will take a few years to see if Bobcat survives, if the new tractors are good, and if the dealer network holds up. Bobcat was basically thorwn to the wolves with the sale of that division, and a company that hasn't operated in the USA in retail sales very much is now running them. With the slow ecconomy in the housing bubiness but good farm ecconomy, will be something to see if they make the business work. Far, far too early to say if it is a good machine or will be around in 10 years.

Kioti has been selling tractors for 25 years now, so the ten year question for the actual tractor has already been answered. As for Bobcat and their recent problems, I have no idea.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Kioti has been selling tractors for 25 years now, so the ten year question for the actual tractor has already been answered. As for Bobcat and their recent problems, I have no idea.

As a farmer who depends on the machinery to get a crop in & out, dealer network or parts availability is the number one concern I have.

Those of you who use a ptractor to brushog 10 acres 2x a year & have some fun with it the rest of a year likely don't much care, only want a cheap price.

Anytime something gets re-badged or built to a new brand name, there are quite a few differences that show up in the machine. Getting parts in a timely fashion (3 days max) is what I need.

Kioti used to be a bit popular around here. I knew of 3 dealers withing an hour drive. That lasted about 5 years. all the dealers are gone now. Wouldn't really consider them for serious work, I'm not sure how far I'd have to go to find a dealer....

So while Kioti has a fairly good mid-range track record, Bobcat has zero track record on tractor sales, and that is the name that appears on the side of the tractors. With time you can source parts from 'other places' like web sites across the country, but that does little good if one needs to make some hay tomorrow with rain coming the day after.....

All depends on where one is coming from.

--->Paul

[Gary in ohio]

Originally Posted by rambler

Gary, Ford/NH compact tractors have always been Shibaura of Japan, never Yanmar.Long has had a rather colorful history of changed owners/ operations, I don't think they are Yanmar?

Never said ford/nh or long was yanmar.

JD and yanmar have had a long history. Engines being keep piece from yanmar, most everything under 30hp and diesel is a yanmar engine including the lawn/garden tractors.

Yanmar has it's own tractors with possibly similar but different specs than the JD lineup, often the Yanmar is build weaker/ cheaper than a 'similar' JD. But still a good machine.

I would disagree with cheaper. The yanmar are build for the homeland and are built strong

I would put Kubota, JD, Ford/NH on a par as the better models.

JD and Kubota are up there, not sure ford/NH is up there.

The Indian & Korean companies are 2nd level. Yanmar seems to be on this level as well.

I would disagree, The yanmar are at or hanging at the JD level. Now the greys may not show it but keep in mind most grey yanmars are 20+ years old

Chineese made machines are at the bottom.

Very much so They are slowly getting better since they move away from the old IH patterns.

Grey market is an interesting situation - often a good machine from Japan, but it is used (or can't be sold in the USA), and has a limited parts supply & support here. This makes them a good buy until something breaks, and then you might be waiting 6 months to find a repair part..... You can buy a good machine for a cheap price & take your chances with breakdowns is what it comes to.

A very big generational of the grey market. I think you will find yanmar parts are very much available, Shibaura no so much, most others not at all.
Yanmar unlike many other grey's has a pretty large following and network of users and sellers keeping it alive.

[Ramblin Wreck]

I've heard good things about Kioti's (the rebadged Bobcat), but none of my neighbors have them. Several have Mahindras in the community, and they seem to have a loyal following/happy customers. I have a Kubota farm tractor, and it's the best piece of equipment on the place (which includes JD, Caterpillar, and Honda).

[Jolly]

Guys, the tractor market is changing so fast, y'all need to go tire kickin'.

Want an Indian tractor? You need look no further than your John Deere dealer...some of those green utility tractors sitting on the lot are made in India. If you can't tell by the castings (you can) just look at the serial plate.

Or wander on over to your Massey-Ferguson dealer. TAFE no longer imports into the U.S. under its own name, but you can find more than one model sporting the red and gray of M-F.

The tractor business has become global, with parts and completed tractors sourced from everywhere. AGCO has stuff from Italy, Mexico and all over the place.

I've got an old Romainian Long 350, built by UTB. Although UTB has discontinued that old Fiat design, I can get just about every part (including the sheet metal) on that 30 year-old tractor, because they still make them in Pakistan.

And, if I'm not mistaken, you'll probably see Chinese Deeres before too long.

The world, it's a changin'....

[rambler]

Originally Posted by Gary in ohio

NH, Ford as all longs, cub cadet diesels new line is now yanmar.

I misunderstood this line to say all brands listed in that sentence are made with Yanmar drivetrains.

--->Paul

[Scrounger]

Originally Posted by rambler

Gary, Ford/NH compact tractors have always been Shibaura of Japan, never Yanmar.

--->Paul

Not all F-NH tractors were Shibaura. Several models were made in India.