Anyone here working as a "Landman"?

[texican]

I've done all of my own land research in the past... checking on oil leases, ROW's, property line descriptions, and even some geneaology.

One of my sisters works for an abstract company, and all of their researchers are tied up for at least a year, so she's thrown some work my way. Their office charges $50/hr, just to access their records. She said the folks working thru their office were making 70$/hr, and get at least $500/day.

So, when I talked with my client, she wanted to know how much I'd charge... Didn't want to go to low, or too high... thought 40 sounded decent, since I wouldn't initially be as fast as a pro... She said that'd be fine, but she wanted to cover all expenses, too. Pay for mileage, fuel, food, and labor, while driving... (oh, and all of the county clerk's offices are air conditioned!!! after spending a few hours hauling square bales of hay out in 95/90 {heat/humidity} weather made me appreciate a/c so much better)

If you are a Landman, what's the general wage structure? Am I too high, or too low. I've searched online, but couldn't find relevant information...

I sent the first bill, and she sent a check back immediately... I guess she's a happy camper, and is not worrying about my fees... she said one of the Oil company landmen had offered her 300K on a property I located for her...(the land had never had it's mineral's leased).

[Dianol]

I did a little research on this. Looks like the starting salary for full time ROW agent is $50,000 going up to almost $80,000. Here's the range.

$49,622 $57,052 $72,891 $79,882

Check it out here: www.salary.com Type in the job title. I used "landman", and type in your zip code. Then choose the level of that job that most closely corresponds to your skill level. Keep in mind that the above $ do not include benefits.

A better breakdown;
Benefit Median Amount
Base Salary $65,212 (Approx mid range from above)
Bonuses $4,691
Social Security $5,348
401k / 403b $4,334
Disability $1,118
Healthcare $5,328
Pension $2,936
Time Off $9,141
Total $98,109

This provides a decent guideline, but real results might vary depending on the size of the corp involved. If I understood correctly that you will be working on a "per job" basis almost as a consultant, then your pay should be at the upper end of whichever scale corresponds to your skills. Also don't forget to add a reasonable charge to cover the cost of benefits. Since you are working on a "per job" basis, the hiring company is not obligated to pay any benefits such as health insurance, life insurance, disability, 401k, etc....directly. Since you are in essence a "contractor", you have to include those costs in your base rate.

You were smart to start out at a more reasonable $ per hour. After you understand more what they are wanting/expecting, your $ per hour should go up, since it's not going to take you as long to provide the same data.

I hope this was somewhat helpful, and don't forget to pay income taxes quarterly.

Di

[TedH71]

Never heard of that line of work. Sounds like it's a good paying profession provided you work good for both your client and yourself.

[wr]

texican, I work in that sector (I'm a land administrator working on my landman's license) but I'm not so sure that it is really the same thing. Up here, a qualified land agent (as they are called now) would negotiate surface leases (wells & facilities) and right of way easements with landowners on behalf of oil companies, power companies and the odd fiber optic line. An intermediate agent in Alberta would easily see $100,00+/yr. My father is a retired land agent and works exclusively as a representative for the rights of landowners and he charges on a per document basis but others doing the same work usually charges $100/hr plus papers costs, phone charges (I think $0.35/minute is going rate) and $0.85 km. I know you have background in O & G and that might be something that would interest you and there seems to be a growing demand as the industry gets busier. You may find more information on the International Right of Way Association's website.

I forgot to mention that if you are working as a consultant, it is a very good idea to get errors & omissions insurance, it isn't all that expensive (I think I pay about $150/year).

[texican]

Thanks Dianol and Wr... it's the same kind of position as you mentioned wr... negotiating oil and gas leases, row agreements and whatnot. Our local county has standing room only at the county clerks office. The county next to us has been having lines 15 people deep to get to the computers and index's.

One of our community colleges has a landman program... I don't know whether I want to invest that much time, when I might be able to do some of the work without the Associates degree... already have a BS...

Oil and gas companies are sending thier landmen in from as far as Houston, Dallas, and the panhandle... they can't get enough people to track down all of the interests involved... I can imagine the '49er gold rush was similar.

People in Lousiana, half an hour away are getting millions in lease money... people that live in falling down trailer houses...

and I'll definitely look into the insurance angle (talk to my sisters employer about the ins and outs).... thanks!

[wr]

It's good work and pays well. Up here, it's quite difficult to get started because you need to be licensed before you can practice and even if you attend college you have to article under a qualified agent for another year. Because of the complexities of our split title system the whole thing is quite different from the way it works in the US. Very few people own mineral titles and mineral & surface titles have been separated since the 1800's so when we negotiate a surface lease for a well, we are literally negotiating for the right to use the land to access oil or gas so a landowner would sign a 25 year lease with renewal options. They are only paid for the surface use and no mineral royalties. The few that do still own mineral rights would be fall under a separate agreement would receive royalties & rental only.

[KindredSpirit]

Wow, I just lost my real estate title insurance job due to the slow housing market after working in that field for 25 years. I have done title searches for years. Maybe I need to check into this. I wonder if there is much work in Kansas.

[fantasymaker]

Hum Is this a Texas thing? Or is it what in IL would be called a abstractor? It sounds like a simular position in the government thats called a Reality speialist. Or maybe even like my old job as a Feild Investagater....LOL yep I literaly investigated feilds!

[ErinP]

Originally Posted by KindredSpirit

Wow, I just lost my real estate title insurance job due to the slow housing market after working in that field for 25 years. I have done title searches for years. Maybe I need to check into this. I wonder if there is much work in Kansas.

Western KS has quite a bit of oil/NG exploration going on, Spirit. You might want to look into it.

[KindredSpirit]

Originally Posted by ErinP

Western KS has quite a bit of oil/NG exploration going on, Spirit. You might want to look into it.

I am in the Northeastern part of Kansas. Do you know if there is much exploration going on in that area?

[ErinP]

The only part of Kansas I'm at all familiar with is the northwestern part.

[Highground]

Gas and oil Landmen are becoming thick as fleas in WV now that they are drilling the Marcellus shale formation.

[Triffin]

I'd say it's worth a look if you live in a state with an active oil and gas play .. also, I think this applies for wind turbine siting, too ..

A good place to check would be with your state's geology department ..

WV, PA, TX, LA, ND are just a few ..

Triff ..

[SandL]

I worked as a Landman for a few years and would like return. If you know where work is avaliable, I would be interested. Your rate is well in line from my experience.

[farminghandyman]

I would guess that were wind power is growing there would be a opportunity there as well. I know there working our area currently for wind leases,

[texican]

Texas has split estates... especially if there's oil or gas in the ground. Rarely can a person in this part of Texas buy the surface and subsurface estate. The royalty (subsurface) got divorced when Spindletop gushered in. Lots of old timers tell the tale of a man showing up during the Depression with a bag of money, to buy something that didn't affect their farms... and poof! the minerals were gone. The mineral estate is worth more than the surface estate, and can and does override surface owners rights. Oil/gas companies do pay damages to surface owners, but only out of public relations concerns... they don't have to pay squat. The original mineral deed basically lets em do whatever they want whenever.

Tracking down a landowner is simple. Tracking down a mineral interest is a lot 'funner'... And that's what the standing room only crowd at all of the county clerks offices are doing. Was in a neighboring county yesterday, and it was chaos... The bid for lease rights/acre jumped from 3k/acre two weeks ago, to 3800 last week, and was even higher yesterday.

What I've been doing the last month is more abstract type work.

Typical landman here, works for a company... they tell him get all of the owners of an area to lease their land for drilling. They track down the owner, then see if the mineral rights are intact... if not, find them, lease them...

I know some landmen that worked for theirselves... bought up leases, made a pooling agreement, and sold the leases to a company... they retained an Override for theirselves... a few percentage points of the well...if it produces...they get paid first, and then in perpetuity... One local guy's heirs are making tens of thousands off of a well, that he 'landmanned' 30 years ago.

SandL... tout your wares in E Texas or NW Lousiana, or up in N Dakota, WV, PA... shale is the new play... fortunes are being made... They're signs up in our local courthouse looking for landmen...

[tiffnzacsmom]

Texas Landmen are totally different from abstractors and title agents anywhere else in the US, the prices they get and the turn around time excepted would not fly anywhere else so if you're in TX and can get into it jump at the chance. Some counties here the abstractors who get the work only charge $25 for current owner searchers if they want work. If you are in WV, NC and SC you need an attorney who will approve your work most other states are much easier to work in.

[texican]

Originally Posted by tiffnzacsmom

Texas Landmen are totally different from abstractors and title agents anywhere else in the US, the prices they get and the turn around time excepted would not fly anywhere else so if you're in TX and can get into it jump at the chance. Some counties here the abstractors who get the work only charge $25 for current owner searchers if they want work. If you are in WV, NC and SC you need an attorney who will approve your work most other states are much easier to work in.

Tiff, everythings bigger in Tx.... I think I could be a Texas Landman, if I could ever acquire a taste for chewing on old cigars... seems the most successful always have a cigar in their mouth.

Are you saying the turnaround time is too fast or too slow? In the oil patch, time is money... the faster they can process a lease, the more money they make. The 'profit motive' is driving the engine. The county clerks offices are being literally overrun... I could see the exploration companies paying OT to keep the offices open on Saturdays....

Outside of the oil patch (leasing oil and gas rights, negotiating ROWs, etc) there's rarely any rush. Getting something done for personal use could take months.

Most of the final lease papers are written up by the companies lawyers... regular title searches and whatnot, if you want them to be legal, still usually go through a lawyers office (or a title company).

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by tiffnzacsmom

Texas Landmen are totally different from abstractors and title agents anywhere else in the US, the prices they get and the turn around time excepted would not fly anywhere else so if you're in TX and can get into it jump at the chance. Some counties here the abstractors who get the work only charge $25 for current owner searchers if they want work. If you are in WV, NC and SC you need an attorney who will approve your work most other states are much easier to work in.

TNZM,

What are the requirements for a Pa. Landman? Do you have any links?

[SandL]

Thanks for everyones help regarding a search for work as a landman.