Comment on the "fixed income" thread ...

[SFM in KY]

Maybe I'm reading something into the posts that aren't there, but it seems like so many of the posts in that thread are angry ... angry at seniors or disabled who are on "fixed incomes" and needing help.

The OP seemed genuinely concerned about those people who are already at their limits but so many of the following posts seemed to focus on seniors who had not "prepared" for their retirement ... or who were apparantly getting something they were entitled to but didn't actually need ... or who were complaining because they weren't getting "enough" ...

Do I just know a better class of seniors?

I think that probably 90% of the senior citizens I've known ... and I worked in geriatric nursing for a number of years so have probably worked with more older people that most people ... have been hard working people who held jobs, raised families and are doing the best they can under their current circumstances.

I am concerned about the ones who don't have family resources to fall back on and I know all too well that many of these retired people don't know where to ask to get help, don't know that there might be help available and many that are too proud to ask for help.

I guess I'd rather try to figure out ways to help these ... who in my personal experience, at least, are in the big majority ... that I would complain about the few that take advantage, or were improvident during their working years.

I know too many people that are trying to survive on very limited retirement incomes when they expected to be able to retire comfortably ... and the circumstances were not due to anything they did or did not do.

What is the old saying ... there but for the grace of God?

[Nana2boys]

I read, but didn't post on that thread. My dh is disabled. It took all of our savings, retirement and anything we could get out hands on to pay medical bills with his illness. We had too many assets to qualify for help in our state. Added into the fact that one of our grandsons was born with special needs and died when he was 5 months old took what little we had left. His hospital bill was over 1.5 millions dollars for three months in the hosp. Ins. covered a little over one million (their max allowed) and some drs. was nice enough to take ins. only. we still had to pay 12 thousand. Dd and her family made just enough not to qualify as well. It took everything all of us had.

It's hard starting over when your in your late 50's. At least we own our own home and don't have bills except utilities, ins. I'm grateful for what we had put back over the years as it help the cash flow in not having to buy a lot of groceries.

What's funny is my dh is the picture of health just to look at him. I'm sure many wouldn't belive that he is disabled.

We are luckier than most.

[edcopp]

There was a great deal of whining and resentment in that thread. It comes from the entitlement mentality, which unfortunately makes up a majority of our population in this country. It's really sad. It will most likely come to a screaching halt very soon as the entitlements will not be there any more.

Now I am not necessarily talking about the absolute do nothings in our society. They are a large part of the problem, but not all of it. The tone of the government "worker' slips through on the posts. They take care of the do nothings, and they work so hard. There are so many more of "them" now adays that the government worker is "entitled" to more help and more benefits.

Then there is the medical entitlement group who takes care of "them" even when there is nothing wrong. The government pays them directly. They are "entitled" to massive earnings, and tons of benefits.

The list goes on and on of service providers, who are entitled because they serve the entitled.

The entitlement system is designed, by our politicians; to self destruct just as soon as someone attempts to take care of themselves in any way. We are expected to go broke so that those feeding off the system can keep on feeding. The service industry creates no wealth, only lots of cash for the providers, whether or not they actually provide anything at all other than a bill.

Manufacturing, farming, mining and so on create wealth. We have now hired the poverty stricken of the world to do that for us. So the service providers who create nothing are about to be expected to go broke along with the rest of us. They seem to sense that the entitlements will not be available for them. They are angry, and rightfully so. Soon they will see a "fixed income" that needs some fixin' real bad.

The logical answer is self-sufficiency. Something that this population has been trained to forget for the last 75 years or so. So if you need something that you have no idea how to get, fear sets in. Especially if poverty is the end result. This should be a very interesting time for the next few years.

[bubbahead]

Nana2boys, well said. One never knows what circumstances another has been through.

There but for the grace of God.......indeed.

You can prepare all you want. There are no quarantees. Compassion allows you to free yourself of all that anger.

[jasper]

Originally Posted by bubbahead

Nana2boys, well said. One never knows what circumstances another has been through.

There but for the grace of God.......indeed.

You can prepare all you want. There are no quarantees. Compassion allows you to free yourself of all that anger.

so very true, there are no guarantees at all and some of those incredibly hurtful posts were written by people who don't know even their own future. lets hope they are met with more compassion than they displayed.

[wwubben]

Self sufficiency is great, but it is hard to practice if you have heart problems,MS,chronic mental problems or something like that.We are all equal in the eyes of the Lord and we should work to keep ourselves feeling the same way.

[CJ]

Amen!

Originally Posted by bubbahead

Nana2boys, well said. One never knows what circumstances another has been through.

There but for the grace of God.......indeed.

You can prepare all you want. There are no quarantees. Compassion allows you to free yourself of all that anger.

[texican]

Some of that negativity (I don't know for sure) may arise from this being a board, that at it's roots, is about prepping. More 'ants' than 'grasshoppers'.

It's true, that the most industrious 'ant', can find themselves in the same boat as 'grasshoppers'... it only takes one little somethin' to do it.

[Scrounger]

I'm on a fixed income - a VA Comp. I don't tell anyone what percentage. It's none of anyone's business how much of a disability I draw. My wife is the only one (other then the VA) that I have told reality to. I try to do as much as I can around here to keep the place up. Invariably, someone drives by and sees me doing something - that they feel - I shouldn't be doing. They never take the time to ask about what, why, or how, they just see me doing things that don't fit THEIR criteria and fill in the blanks with rumor and lies. Sometimes the biggest offenders are family. It has long ago stopped bothering me what people think. They don't matter, anyway. I've even had people - family members included - try to weasel around and try to get info they don't need to know. It's actually quite fun to feed them dis-information and then see them go running to others about what they think they know. It's even more fun to hear the rumor mill and act upset that someone "found out" something!

[sbeerman]

So you think you are in a good place then your 23 year old son brakes his neck. Gee guess what there is no way your ok! You never know when you'll fall off your soap box. People need to relax and never be so sure you have all the answers!
Happy Gardening
Sandie Or. 5/6

[jasper]

certainly not the same as human suffering, but several years ago i had a dog that i loved very much. the dog needed ACL surgery. at the time my resources were tight and i put the surgery on a credit card. several thousand dollars and 6 months later, the dog needed the same procedure on the other rear leg. as i had already invested in the first one, i went ahead and did the second surgery.............also on a credit card. i had a job, a good income, it didn't seem to matter at the time. i felt comfortable that i would be able to take care of it.

life being true to form, before i could pay off that debt something else came up. it wasn't long before i realized the debt was too high and i wasn't able to save anything. thru a lot of pain and sacrifice it took me almost 5 years to pay off that debt and i have never forgotten it.

but my point is that..............if i had to suffer with that debt with these fuel prices, groceries bills, and home repairs during that time i probably still be in that debt crunch. today people are not choosing between a dog and groceries, they are choosing between medications and groceries... something no one should have to do. and we never know when the problems will hit and how much it will cost. even the best prepared can not cover all their bases all the time.

[Selena]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...-seniors_N.htm


RETIREES IN DEBT
Relative percentage change in bankruptcy filing rates from 1991-2007, by age category
Age % change
18-24 -64.1%
25-34 -46.1%
35-44 -30.1%
45-54 -24.7%
55-64 40%
65-74 125%
75-84 433.3%
Total filings -29.2%
Source: 2007 Consumer Bankruptcy Project

[jasper]

Originally Posted by Selena

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...-seniors_N.htm


RETIREES IN DEBT
Relative percentage change in bankruptcy filing rates from 1991-2007, by age category
Age % change
18-24 -64.1%
25-34 -46.1%
35-44 -30.1%
45-54 -24.7%
55-64 40%
65-74 125%
75-84 433.3%
Total filings -29.2%
Source: 2007 Consumer Bankruptcy Project

wow i would never have imagined that at all. i am shocked actually. the young have stopped going into debt and its the seniors that are suffering terribly. i am going to assume those numbers reflect health care costs. as people age, their health fails and they are probably under-insured or no savings.

[Selena]

Originally Posted by jasper

wow i would never have imagined that at all. i am shocked actually. the young have stopped going into debt and its the seniors that are suffering terribly. i am going to assume those numbers reflect health care costs. as people age, their health fails and they are probably under-insured or no savings.

Medical problems cause 50% of bankruptcies across the board and I suspect even a higher amount for the older age brackets (which is the ding against the lovely bankruptcy reform laws, most aren't full-time deadbeats and the credit card companies are finding out they aren't getting the results they expected). Heating and cooling costs plus property taxes probably are the next largest reason.

Plus you have to remember student loans aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy so this may be part of the reason younger people aren't filing as much.

[EDDIE BUCK]

I am on "Fixed income" too and know very much what it is. When food and clothes and healthcare an other things one needs to survive keep going up but your income stays the same is hard to determine just how and what of these necessities we can do without.Right now I'm trying to determine which of my medicines I really need just to survive and if theres any I can do without, ifso I will. Everything else along with the income needs to be fixed as well. Is it asking to much not to get ahead, but just stay the same? Eddie

[Calvin Wiles]

I am 66 yrs. old and I have watched the world change drastically in the last 50 years. In the 40' s and 50's recovering from the Depression, people cared about other people and helped them. People have changed into a Me person where they don't care about anyone except me and what I want. I even see families that are so me oriented that each member don't care about the other. The Caring people have turned into a small minority. Very sad but true.

[just_sawing]

Before anybody reads into my post as a negative let me set the record. Anybody needs help I pray that I can. I every year contact local ministers about any one that can't afford fire wood. I am apart of a disaster response team that clears tornado and hurricane trees for free.
Now for a observation, I have people that have their hand out but stand in the shade while I work be be able to help. This Gauls me. I work with people at my public work who when the economy with south stated it wasn't the same between me and them I had a business and they didn't. It is funny that they have as much invested in their wave runners motorcycles and such but they want to complain. I have been running my mill in the same place for 15 years and the people that have come to me for a job I can count on one hand and give yo0u change.
I am here to help but not to be an enabler.

[treasureacres]

This thread is interesting to me because really, both sides are right. What I am going to say is meant for the people that really deserve their benefits and have no other choice. You are right that your benefits need to be increased just to keep up with the extreme rising costs. But on the other side of things, people that are working don't want taxes to go up to pay for these increases. In my opinion, our government needs to stop all of the spending they do around the world and focus on the United States for a while. I know that these world wide problems are important as well and need funding, but we need to solve problems at home first. With baby boomers reaching retirement age at record numbers, this situation is not going to get better on its own.

On the other side of things, it really irritates the H$LL out me how so many people get away with government money when they are perfectly able to work at some level. Again, just my opinion, but why can't the government create a system in which encourages people to get off wellfare. If they can only get minimum wage jobs subsidize them to get them to a livable wage, but don't take away all benefits just because they get a job. By going to work everyday at least their children see this and we don't create another generation of wellfare families. Also, it would improve a persons self image to go to work, even at a low paying job, knowing at least they will get help to keep bills paid. If you are limited in what you can do, but could work at least part time at an easy job, I bet more people would do this if they knew they would not lose ALL of their benefits. There will always be dead beats that are just looking for a free ride. There will always be people who get ridiculed for taking aid, even though they LOOK healthy. Only the individual knows their own situation.

[Watcher48]

I'm 61
For the most part I have like others my age have seen the world change like no one ever has. We've gone from crank phones,no Tv and outhouses to every possible convenience. The amount of wealth and opportunity that has been created especially in the last 25 years is astounding. Most people my age only knew about work and work hard (yes you have your dead beats) But we had to learn about investing and opportunity the hard way. Our parents had just begun to learn after WW2. At least in my school that stuff was never taught. some of us wanted to go to college and instead ended up in Vietnam. And the VA bill and benefit's were not all that great. There were no welfare programs to catch us every time we fell. Those things have all been instituted in the last 25-30 years.
One of the interesting comparisons is a carpenter friend of mine. he was saying how he started out with a single box of tools to build houses. Now he has to have a trailer and thousands of dollars to build them. People under 40-45 are just beginning to learn the repercussions of just one misfortune can do to you. and they are not nearly as prepared to deal with them. Now on top of that a lot of people who had their wealth in their house and stocks are finding out they don't eve have that anymore. i fear that with what lies ahead people may soon learn not to be so smug.

[treasureacres]

I really feel sorry for Ed McMan, he may not get to keep his house that is valued at 6.5 million dollars!!! And people are doing fund raisers for him??????