Hay making equipment-compact tractor

[hunter63]

Have been looking around for a small haybine, rake, bailer suitable to pull behind a 30 Hp compact tractor.
Any ideas?

I would think that with the continuing widespread use of the Ford 2n-9n, 8n, small Farmall etc @ approx. the same hp, that the older equipment would work?

It seem to me that there is now a market to cut, rake and bale hay from small parcels, too small for the larger equipment.

Names, models, sources, experiences would be appreciated.

[RedneckPete]

I am also interested. I'd love to know the minimum requirements for making 100 - 200 small square bales a year in a reasonable efficient manner.

Pete

[Beeman]

Not much hay was baled with old N series tractors, you can rake with one. My Ford 2600 diesel will process square bales but it's as small as I would use. I'm sure they're making small equip but I'm sure the price isn't small. Most older square balers are extremely well worn and can be expensive to fix.

[hunter63]

Originally Posted by Beeman

Not much hay was baled with old N series tractors, you can rake with one. My Ford 2600 diesel will process square bales but it's as small as I would use. I'm sure they're making small equip but I'm sure the price isn't small. Most older square balers are extremely well worn and can be expensive to fix.

This is the general drift I have been hearing.

Talking to some of the older farmers in my area, they are telling me that "back in the old days", the equipment wasn't too good and the hp was low, so as the tractors got bigger, they traded in or just parked the older, smaller stuff.

Now the same guys are trying to cut around all the country homes, cabins, and Mac Mansions on 5 acre lots and the newer equipment is to big to maneuver.

Lot of acres out there, just not in large tracts anymore.
A lot of people imported hay from down south last winter, as the flooding and bad winter really cut into the crop last fall.

Talking to some of the horse people, they were telling me that they were paying over a $100 bucks for big round bales and over 5 bucks for small square bales.
They normally get about 7 round bales on the first cutting on my small fields, 5 or less on same fields in the 2nd and 3-rd cutting.

Both neighbors fences the property line, just to mark it and the hay guy is having a heck of a time cutting raking and baling as he can't just go in a straight line any more.

Just seems like an opportunity to me, as it isn't just my fields.

[m39fan]

As was said, the N series was used mainly to rake. I wouldn't think that many of the older balers used with other tractors of yesteryear would work well with a modern compact tractor because of mass. That is to say a 30hp tractor of yesterday had much more size and weight than a modern compact. Weight/mass is especially important with older balers as the ram will tear a new tractor up quickly (as my neighbor found out).

Your best bet, if you really want to bale, is to make an investment in one of the new import balers such as those found here: http://www.wolagriusa.com/ Just get ready for sticker shock!!!!

A smaller rake should be easier to find than the baler. Any converted horse drawn or 2nd generation tractor pulled rake would work and save you a little $ you could put towards a baler.

Truthfully, unless you're doing A LOT of acreage, you'll probably be better off hiring it done even with the high fuel/hay prices. What we found to be most cost effective is to cut and rake ourselves and hire someone to bale. Just something to consider.

HTH,
Mike

[MELOC]

there are no small, older, self-powered balers out there? i am curious too as there are many small areas left around here, but not many big fields. those new compacts are just way too expensive.

[ErinP]

I would never buy new equipment. Too many people have perfectly usable stuff that's sitting out in their bone yards waiting for someone to come along who needs it enough to fiddle with it and make it run.

For us, we'd get at least an M (I think that's the step larger than an N). A wheel rake if we can find one, otherwise an old dump rake. A sickle bar mower and a little square baler that's been revitalized after a decade or three out in the tree rows, and away we go.

[Old Vet]

Originally Posted by ErinP

I would never buy new equipment. Too many people have perfectly usable stuff that's sitting out in their bone yards waiting for someone to come along who needs it enough to fiddle with it and make it run.

For us, we'd get at least an M (I think that's the step larger than an N). A wheel rake if we can find one, otherwise an old dump rake. A sickle bar mower and a little square baler that's been revitalized after a decade or three out in the tree rows, and away we go.

With a 30 hp tractor you can do anything except bale with it. All of the tractors today have a sickle bar mower that is made for them or a 3 pt hitch and a side delivery rake is the best. I have pulled a side delivery rake with a 20 hp tractor or a pickup and it did fine. If you find a self powered baler you can bale a lot of hay before you begin to notice any wear on your tractor.

[Scrounger]

Actually - you CAN bale with an 8n or 30 hp tractor. Dad baled thousands of small squares with his IHC "H", which had a rated drawbar HP of LESS then and 8N. Where the Ford was lacking was in weight. If you had flat land, the 8N would bale just fine with a PTO baler. A man near here farmed his land COMPLETELY with an 8N up until he retired (at 83) a couple years ago. He plowed, disced, planted, harvested, mowed, cut, and baled with it. There were also balers made into the 90's that had aux engines to run the baler. Most any of the older balers can also be converted (by adding a horizontal shaft lawn mower motor....).
There are lots of the old balers that were "retired" only because they were to small, or slow, or they were replaced by round balers. If you look around, there are - depending on your location - good used hay equipment for cheap. There are still good dependable balers out there for under $400. Rakes, for under $100, and sickle mowers for $200. It can be done for a lot less then people think.

If you want small round bales, you can also look into the old Allis-Chalmers Rotobaler. They made good small bales and a small HP tractor can run them with ease. If you go that route, you can come buy the two I have in SE Nebraska!

The point is, YES YOU CAN do a lot of work with smaller HP tractors (30 and under), as long as you don't start believing people who tell you that you can't.

[Scrounger]

Originally Posted by hunter63

Have been looking around for a small haybine, rake, bailer suitable to pull behind a 30 Hp compact tractor.
Any ideas?

I would think that with the continuing widespread use of the Ford 2n-9n, 8n, small Farmall etc @ approx. the same hp, that the older equipment would work?

It seem to me that there is now a market to cut, rake and bale hay from small parcels, too small for the larger equipment.

Names, models, sources, experiences would be appreciated.

What tractor do you have?
Check around at farm sales for Cat 1 equipment. Most of them go cheap because everyone wants the bigger stuff. If you are handy, you can do any modifications it MIGHT need. Most of the Dearborn or Ford equipment will work on newer tractors. Just make sure it is Cat 1. I have a small 3 point John Deere Lister (planter) for corn, milo, etc that I bought at a sale for $7. A LOT of corn has gone through it. My dearborn rake was $35. I use a neighbors New Holland 273 Hayliner to bale. One of the best balers made. Any New Holland rake will cost you, but they are nice. My rake is "ground driven" - and they will be cheaper then PTO rakes.

[ericjeeper]

Our super 69 will work the stuffings out of our 45 horse diesel tractors.. Make the governors chug at every stroke.. Not to mention how hard it pushes and pulls on the tractor.
As for an 8N They have went way down in price lately.. Used to be 3500 a few years ago. Now you see them for 1800-2000.
I would rather have any diesel tractor over an 8n.

[stonefly71]

if you have a small area what about the walk behind baler you see in some of the mags. I'd like to know if anyone has one of these and how do they do?

[sammyd]

I use an old Allis WD (35 HP) and it pulls my John Deere 24T baler OK. I don't use a wagon behind since I bale some small areas so that lets the tractor put more horses to the PTO.
A lot of these new compacts look nice but I would be afraid to put my baler or even my old 2 bottom plow on some of them. Course they might take it OK.

I picked up an old New Idea trailer mower for 350, a crimper for 125, and bought the baler for 700. It has taken a bit more to get the mower and crimper in decent shape but they worked pretty good this morning till I tried to mow a piece of rebar when I got too close to a rock pile. Most parts for mowers like guards and sickle sections and even pitman arms are still available at most farm stores.
I like a mower since some of the gates I go through are narrow and even a 7 foot haybine would have problems getting through plus I can do the side of the road without dropping a wheel in the ditch and banging up the cutterbar.
If you're looking at stuff you can't go wrong with New Holland, some of the best haying equipment ever made and their old balers hold up well.
Other makes I would recommend are Gehl, New Idea, Hesston, and most John Deere stuff.
Old International balers were a joke. We could never stuff those like a New Holland.
Massey balers were pretty reliable. I happen to have a smaller one for sale.......
I see you're from WI. If you're close to Mosinee there is a place just east of the airport that deals in older stuff. I've bought a few things there and they're easy to deal with.
There's a guy in Milan (near Athens) that deals mostly in parts but he may be able to get equipment if you ask him to keep an eye open.
Kinda late for auctions but there are deals to be found at those if you're in the right place at the right time.

[Beeman]

8Ns have dropped a lot because of the supply of small tractors, mostly imports. there was a time not long ago that N's were holding value as working tractors because there were no small hobby tractors available. Now that's the biggest seller at some dealers unless you're in large farm areas.
When low power gas tractors were all there were some balers were self powered with their own motor. There are plenty of old balers out there and there's a reason for it. Now if you're a baler mechanic or have a friend/relative that can fix it when it breaks, they only break when there's hay down and rain coming, you might get some work out of it until you get fed up and park it for the next guy.
Hay is expensive for a lot of reasons and the price of equipment is part of it.

[hunter63]

I know what you mean about the 8n's, everybody got on an old tractor trip, and prices went shy high, but on the advice of an old tractor collector, "If you want to play with your tractor, buy an old one, if you want to do some work, buy a new one."

I have a Mahindra 30hst, 30 hp diesel, 4 wheel-hydro static drive.
Had if for three years now and and very pleased with it.

Got it at a John Deere dealer, most JD dealers around here sell them, as a lot of the parts interchange, and I have very good dearler support.

Here is my BIL cutting grass, kinda sucked him in, alla Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn



I guess I'm gonna have to visit some farm shows and auctions, names and models are still appreciated.

[FarmboyBill]

One says use a dump rake to make windrows with, and that wont work worth a d as the hay has to be turned and twisted as by a side rake so that it hangs together like a loose rope for the bailer to pull in, and another says to mount a garden tractor engine on a bailer to make it work. Thatll only work if your craweling and bailing the lawn.

[Scrounger]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

One says use a dump rake to make windrows with, and that wont work worth a d as the hay has to be turned and twisted as by a side rake so that it hangs together like a loose rope for the bailer to pull in, and another says to mount a garden tractor engine on a bailer to make it work. Thatll only work if your craweling and bailing the lawn.

The lawn mower engine would be a 17 HP+. Works like a charm in even heavy hay. Thats all the old "self powered" balers were. They used a small engine to turn the baler PTO.
As far as the dump rake. They will do fine for baling. They take longer to dry and should be rolled over, but they will work.
Like I said - the only thing stopping people is their ability to let others convince them it CAN'T be done.

[sammyd]

I think an old square baler would eat that tractor alive.

However if you want specifics New Holland 67s and 68s and 270s are very good balers.
John Deere 14T and 24Ts are very good balers.
IH 45 balers are to be shunned.
Massy Fergusen 3, 12, and 124s are OK balers.
Ford 532s were popular but I have never liked any farm machinery with the Ford name on it myself.

New Idea 30As were good mowers.
New Holland 450 and 451s are good mowers.
New Holland made a mower conditioner called the 460 that could be equipped with a 6 bat reel instead of 4 and you could really put hay through with that.
469s and 499s are quite good machines if you want to have a sickle bar machine.
Hesston PT 7s and PT10s were decent haybines.
New Idea made something called a cutditioner that used flails instead of a sickle bar and threw the hay against a flat surface to condition it. Quite a machine and you could go through stuff that would make a sickle bar machine cry.
Nowadays they have disc bines but I don't have any experience with them. I have heard they are the cats meow when new but as they age maintenance is an issue..
2 rubber rollers vs 1 steel and 1 rubber arguments have been going on since the mower conditioner was invented so I won't say much about that. If you are buying used and the roll(s) are rubber make sure that they are in good repair and not missing big chunks. New rollers are pricey and getting them rerubbered isn't too cheap anymore either if you can find a place to do it.
The same goes for a crimper if you decide to go with the mower crimper combo instead of a haybine. Although a lot of older crimpers are double steel rolls.

Rakes can be cheap or they can be pricey.
A new Holland 256 will run you upwards of 2000.
A good 5 bar New Idea can be about half that.
John Deere has a 350 that's 3pt mounted and pto driven that rolls hay pretty good.
An old long 4 bar with big steel wheels maybe a couple hundred if it's in good shape and you aren't good at bargaining.
Newer ones with smaller rubber tires will do a good job of rolling hay and you can take them down the road faster than ones on steel wheels.
If you find an old 3 bar that can be reversed to run as a tedder it might be something to look at but in over 30 years of farming I've never used a tedder myself.
Never used a wheel rake but I hear the old ones were next to useless.
Most teeth for rakes can be found at farm stores yet.

A good sense of humor and a mechanical aptitude is required to work with the older stuff but it can and is being done by a lot of people.

If you would like to price new cool stuff check out this page..
http://www.tractorconnection.com/HayHayHay.html

[DaleK]

You want to think about the kinds of fields you're going to be baling. Never been to Wisconsin but I get the impression it can be kind of like here... some flat places, some steep places, and in between. Unless your BIL just leans for fun it looks like you already found a bit of a slope.

An old 30 hp tractor here will run most old square balers on flat ground. Get them on hills and they aren't heavy enough to hold the baler back, end up sliding down hill sideways or jacknifed or worse. Not fun. I REALLY wouldn't want to have an even lighter 30 hp compact trying to hold a baler on anything steeper than.... well much steeper than a basketball court actually.

I wouldn't risk my life hooking a square baler onto that tractor on any kind of slope.

[Stephen in SOKY]

I wonder if his hydro units will stand pulling/holding back a baler? Rake or mower yes, but balers on any slope at all get pretty hard to handle.