Beginner - critique my fence plan

[johnsmb]

Is there a "Fencing for Dummies" book? I need it. We are from the "city" and fencing for the first time. Just fencing 1/3 acre for 2 goats.

I plan on using 48" tall Red Brand field fencing - it has a 6x6 mesh. We are going to use 6' posts, so we will have another 6 to 12" of post over the top of the fence and then we can string a wire to make the fence taller. I plan on using 4x4" square wood posts and also T-posts. Every 3rd post will be wood. Spacing of posts to be 8'. Will this work?

I will put the corner 'H' posts in cement - but do the other wood posts need to be in cement? Is there anything special I need to know about constructing the corners?

I don't know anything about fence stretchers - can we just use our ATV to somehow stretch the wire?

Any problems with this plan before I start buying? By the way, I never realized how incredibly expensive fencing is!!! It is looking like it will be $700 to $800 for a 1/3 acre lot!

[HilltopDaisy]

I think the 6" x 6" is cattle fence. I like the Goat/Sheep much better and it's 4" x 4", I find it a lot easier to stretch. RedBrand Sheep/Goat is GREAT fence, it's woven wire, not welded. I have only used wood posts on the corners, and T posts the rest of the way, about 10' apart.

I got a roll of the RedBrand cattle fence cheap, only reason I bought it, and I find that it sags no matter how I pull it tight.

[Mrs_stuart]

The 6x6 isn't great for goats. They can get their head through it and then they push and cause the fence a lot of problems. New kids can also go right through it with no problems. The plan sounds good other than the 6x6, I would go for the 4x4 if it was me. Giood luck.

Belinda

[Silvercreek Farmer]

If you care about cost, your idea may even be overkill. For 1/3 acre, I would use T posts all the way round and do my corners with those nifty tpost conectors from Tractor Supply. No concrete needed if you pound the post in a good 18-24 inches And like the others have said, a horned goar will get thei head stuck in a 6x6 but instead of going smaller I would get a $25 charger from Lowes or TSC and run one wire around at shoulder height. It will keep them from rubbing or sticking their heads out which will make your fence last much longer! Plus the goats probably won't consider jumping over it.

I am in the process of putting high tensile electric around our 6 acre property, but we used to keep goats and sheep on 1/2 acre and belive me, electricty does a better job on goats for the money than anything else I have tried.

[johnsmb]

I thought I could get by with the 6x6 mesh because the goats do not have horns and the fence is much cheaper. However, I can definitely see them sticking their heads through and pushing it out.

The 4x4 mesh is $.95 cents per foot, versus .50 cents per foot for field fence. Ouch. But maybe I'll have to do it, especially if I can get by with fewer wood posts.

How do I stretch the fence? Do I need a stretcher or will an ATV work?

thanks for the help.

[greenmulberry]

Get this book:



It is a fencing for dummies book. It points out all the dumb things you would never think about. I had never built anything but a standard suburban backyard privacy fence, and I now have my hilly, wooded acre fenced in with perfectly stretched 4 by 4 sheep and goat fence from red brand, and it looks wonderful. And it keeps my dogs in.

We stretched the fence by three methods: using two "come alongs" and a board, we stretched the fence from a tree in line with the section of fence we were working on. Then, when we came to a spot that there was no available tree in line, we used our Blazer. (caution, there is some danger involved in this) and finally when we had to fix a section that didn't turn out right, we used a single line stretcher.

But we did it all with that book and a few occasional google searches to solve little mysteries the book didn't explain. There are a few things that we had to research otherwise, but it was nice to have a book to take outside with pictures and stuff.

We did not cement the corner posts, those metal braces make a seriously strong corner. We did set all the wooden posts in gravel.

Good luck.

[vallyfarm]

As others say, go for the 4x4 fencing. The 6x6 can let small dogs, foxes,etc in, but also let those newborn kids wander out. If you put in GOOD corner braces, then using T posts for the main run is fine. Every 10 ft is what I use...Upstate NY with lots of snow...with no problems. Keep the bottom wire of the fence a few inches off the gtound to keep the rust away. Run a line of barbed wire down there to help prevent dogs from digging under. Use "Gaucho" brand barbed wire. This stuff is NASTY! After almost 20 years I changed fence lines and had to remove this stuff. NO rust, and even recoiled back to the shape of the spool it came on. Do it right,do it once. Mike

[Farmerwilly2]

Originally Posted by johnsmb

I plan on using 48" tall Red Brand field fencing - it has a 6x6 mesh. We are going to use 6' posts, so we will have another 6 to 12" of post over the top of the fence and then we can string a wire to make the fence taller.

This is only going to give you 12-18 inches in the ground. A strong wind will knock that over. Go for 7' min. and get 2' min. in the ground. 30" would be better. 36" in the ground at the corners if you can do it.

I plan on using 4x4" square wood posts and also T-posts. Every 3rd post will be wood. Spacing of posts to be 8'. Will this work?

I use a 12' spacing.

I will put the corner 'H' posts in cement - but do the other wood posts need to be in cement? Is there anything special I need to know about constructing the corners?

Posts in concrete are doomed to rotting off at the surface level. Brace the corners before stretching the wire. A 8' brace is typical. #9 wire on the diagonal, from top of brace post to bottom of corner post and stapled in place. Galv. bolts work great for brace pins.

I don't know anything about fence stretchers - can we just use our ATV to somehow stretch the wire?

I made my stretcher out of 2 1x4 poplar, 5 bolts joining the boards, with the fence sandwiched between. I prefer a cable come-along chained to my tractor to stretch with. I can control the stretching this way.

Any problems with this plan before I start buying? By the way, I never realized how incredibly expensive fencing is!!! It is looking like it will be $700 to $800 for a 1/3 acre lot!

Welcome to the country!! I try to do a little fencing at a time, hoping to be finished before any of it needs to be replaced. Hot electric lines are da bomb where you want to keep critters off the fence. I'd only use barbed wire on top if I was trying to keep cattle from mashing down the fence or if I was grazing hogs.

[Wendy]

I have goats & I am doing overkill. Wooden posts every 16' with a metal post in between. I am also using cattle panels. They can stick their head through & eat & not stretch the fence out. It's costing quite a bit more, but will be good for a long time. I like it when they eat on the other side. Keeps it trimmed up nice. If a panel goes bad, I can take that one down & replace it without having to restretch a whole section of fence.

[ErinP]

I've never heard of someone cementing regular fencing... (and I've helped fence hundreds of miles of fence over the years.) Is there some reason this might actually be necessary?

[fantasymaker]

Remember you are not just fencing goats in you are fencing the whole world out,build your fence to exclude anything you don't want in that might be in your area. Bobcat,fox,coyotes,dogs, human dogs.....
Id suggest 2X4 woven horse or ostrich fence at least 6 feet and maybe 8 feet high with at least 1 barbed wire strand on top and one electric wire 6 inches from the fence and a foot above ground level on the outside.

[GoldenMom]

Are the posts 6' total length or is that what is going to be left over after you pound them in? You'll need to put them into the ground a ways, so if they are only 6' long, you won't have much, if any, post above your fence.

[Rowdy]

Okay, here is what I think:

Woven wire: 4x4 is better, but I personally use 6x6 redbrand woven wire and do not have any stuck goats. However, I do rotate my goats between four paddocks, and if they were trying to stick their heads throught the fence, I would know that they do not have enough to eat on their side. The suggestion on the electric wire about shoulder high is a good one; I use that myself in some places.


corner posts: Personally, I would not us 4x4 posts for corner posts, but that is me. If I were using wood, I'd use the largest diameter posts I could find. Old telephone poles are great. I would use at least an 8 ft long pole, with at least 3.5-4 feet of it below grade. Concrete or no concrete, doesn't really matter if the dirt is moist and tamped back in good and tight. Concrete is quicker though.


line posts: a t post every eight feet will make a sturdy, though expensive fence. Personally I tend to space mine about 12 feet. It is still a good tight fence though. If you can afford it, every eight feet is nice, but it adds up quick!

Stretching the fence: You can use an ATV to stretch the fence, but I do not really suggest it. It is easy to over stretch it, easy to bend things out of shape, and just generally get yourself in trouble very quickly. I would suggest buying at least one fence stretcher or a come-a-long (though two would be better) and do a bunch of reading on how to stretch field fence.

If you are dead set on using the ATV: Go slow, and have several helpers spread out over the length of the fence, looking for hang ups, and have them "pop" the fence as you stretch it, and finally to stand the fence up against the fence as the fence starts to rise off the ground. BE CAREFUL!

General advice:

If you can make your paddock square, you will save money and fence versus fencing in the same area in a rectangle.


Spend some extra time laying out your fence, and be careful when you line up your posts. A straight fence makes a tight fence that will stay tight.

If this fence is going to be there "forever" take even more time thinking about how you want it, placement of gates, how the ground is, etc. This will save you time, heartache, and work later.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

Save your money on the wire - use 6x6 and then use 8 foot T-posts every 8 feet. The 8 feet apart will keep your dogs from going out underneath and will keep the wire from sagging. Use 8 foot t-posts so you have 6 1/2 feet above the ground. Then string 2 barbed wires on top and one along the bottom just below the fence wire (I use the mesh to about 2 inches above the ground and then a run of barbed at 1 inch). That way you will have a 6 1/2 foot high fence that will keep your fence jumpers in and out. A coyote or neighborhood dog will clear a 4 1/2 foot high fence with ease - 6 1/2 foot - not so easy.

Of course I run one of the top wires as electric and another wire inside the fence about 6 inches above the ground electric too. I want to be sure that my animals respect the fence and stay off of it. Sheep and goats can loosen the wire by rubbing down its length in the spring when they are itchy. The electric wire keeps them off the fence.

[Minelson]

I think all the suggestions are great...I just want to add - don't forget to check for under ground electric before you dig any holes.

[fordy]

.................You've gotten good advice so far . I would use 8 foot , 4x6 treated wooden posts . In fact , I'd buy 10 footers , IF you can set 36 to 40 inches , deep ; then you can tamp them in instead of cement . The deeper the better , goats will lean against your wire and scratch themselves , and over time , they will literally push the fence OVER UNless you run a hot wire about 20 inches off the ground and set back about 12 inches from the wire . This also keeps them from getting their horns entangled in the wire . Red brand is the best wire available in my opinion . , fordy

[Quint]

Speaking of ATVs we've used the winch that was on the ATV to stretch fence. It worked quite well. Sure beat going all the way back to the shop of the fence stretcher.

[sammyd]

Our perimeter fence is wood posts on the corners with t posts set every 10'.
We originally wanted to do a dairy cow so we strung the whole thing with 3 strands of hot barbed wire. Last year I thought I could keep the chickens contained by running plastic snow fence around the acre so that was still up this spring when we dicided to put the goats out there. We did move the top strand of barbed wire so it is higher than the snow fence.
We have 2 that we pasture during the day and run in at night. So far we have had no trouble with them getting out. Last year we kept them in with 4 strands of yellow plastic/stainless steel string and no other fence.

Personally, if I only had 1/3 an acre I'd tether them instead of fencing them.

[whiterock]

Remember to put the wire on the inside of the fence, so when the animals push on the wire the are pushing it against the posts, otherwise, they will push the wire loose from the posts.

Around here, if you put cement around a post, it does nothing but speed the rotting of the post. Just dig the corner post holes deep and brace them well.

Ed

[Beeman]

Learn how to build corners and build them first. Corner posts should be almost 3' in the ground, skip the concrete. Then space and dig for the next posts off the corner to make the H, usually just under 8' away. I use 8' posts for the bar of the H and attach brackets to the crossbar and nail it in place, you can drill and dowel it in place with smooth steel pins. I then diagonally smooth wire the H and tension it with a 2x2 and crank tension until it begins to move the post. If done right the tension will actually start to lift the post if you go too far. Yout line posts, T posts, are there to just hold the fencing from flopping as all of the pull is on the corners.

My books are
Building Fences and also Planning Fences from the American Association for Vocational Instructional Materials
Also have a pamphlet from Langwood Forest Products, makers of treated wood posts in Valdosta eorgia. It's titled How to Build Fences That Stay.


Ride around and look at fences in your area, especially professionally built ones. I stopped and measured and took notes when they were fencing a nearby farm. Also look at the fences that don't look good any more and see what went wrong. In many cases the falling down fence cost as much or more then the one that lasted. I have a neighbor that went thru a lot of work and money to build a fence just 4 or 5 years ago. His fence is falling down and the landscape timbers he used are rotting off at the ground.