Homesteading; sustaining income?

[Ambassador]

Hey all, I'm pretty new here, but I've posted a little bit so far. Unfortunately, I'm not a homesteader, so I won't pretend to be one. I guess I'm more of a homesteader at heart than anything else unfortunately. I used to live on a ranch when I was younger (in Miami, even during Andrew), so I am very independent living-conscious.

I was just wondering about the whole practice of homesteading, and how to make a living doing it. I hear / read about folks like yourselves that are doing this, but I am wondering about monetary issues.

I have some debt, and school loans that I am deferring until I graduate in about 2 years (I am going to school online). I live in Maryland, and I rent a trailer on a small amount of land (.25-.35 acre).

So with that said, I'm wondering how I would be able to sustain my income by moving to some land, somewhere say in FL where it is sunny and rainy, but no crazy changes of seasons like Maryland (I would hate to plant stuff here because of the off-season stuff - I'm not too hot about that aspect in Maryland).

What kind of things (other than hard work) would I have to do to sustain a 30-60k income? I don't think I would be interested in raising cattle... I could state reasons, but if that's a good option, I would still like to know what they are. Farming would be cool - depends on what kinds of crops, but I would like to know my options as well. Making things like butters and cheeses (if legal or what have you) would be an interesting way to go for me. I guess I don't mind raising pigs, chickens or others, but I don't necessarily want animals other than to produce their goods (2-3 pigs a year = fun get-togethers, chickens = fresh chicken and eggs every once in a while, goats = milk (or whatever else?), cow = milk and byproducts).

So basically, how do you do it? How would I go about it? Getting rid of my debt won't really happen anytime soon (as much as I would like it to). Are there any options or ways to accomplish this even with existing debt? I'm sure capital has to be quite a bit to start.
I would appreciate any help or advice!

[donsgal]

Originally Posted by Ambassador

Hey all, I'm pretty new here, but I've posted a little bit so far. Unfortunately, I'm not a homesteader, so I won't pretend to be one. I guess I'm more of a homesteader at heart than anything else unfortunately. I used to live on a ranch when I was younger (in Miami, even during Andrew), so I am very independent living-conscious.

I was just wondering about the whole practice of homesteading, and how to make a living doing it. I hear / read about folks like yourselves that are doing this, but I am wondering about monetary issues.

I have some debt, and school loans that I am deferring until I graduate in about 2 years (I am going to school online). I live in Maryland, and I rent a trailer on a small amount of land (.25-.35 acre).

So with that said, I'm wondering how I would be able to sustain my income by moving to some land, somewhere say in FL where it is sunny and rainy, but no crazy changes of seasons like Maryland (I would hate to plant stuff here because of the off-season stuff - I'm not too hot about that aspect in Maryland).

What kind of things (other than hard work) would I have to do to sustain a 30-60k income? I don't think I would be interested in raising cattle... I could state reasons, but if that's a good option, I would still like to know what they are. Farming would be cool - depends on what kinds of crops, but I would like to know my options as well. Making things like butters and cheeses (if legal or what have you) would be an interesting way to go for me. I guess I don't mind raising pigs, chickens or others, but I don't necessarily want animals other than to produce their goods (2-3 pigs a year = fun get-togethers, chickens = fresh chicken and eggs every once in a while, goats = milk (or whatever else?), cow = milk and byproducts).

So basically, how do you do it? How would I go about it? Getting rid of my debt won't really happen anytime soon (as much as I would like it to). Are there any options or ways to accomplish this even with existing debt? I'm sure capital has to be quite a bit to start.
I would appreciate any help or advice!

Right now we are not "fully sustainable" but am working toward that goal. We still have some credit card debt that we are whittling away. Right now we are living pretty well on 18K per year and, are working toward reducing that dramatically. Ultimately, if we can grow our own produce and meat, then we will only have need for a very small income which, hopefully, we can attain through working *very* part time, or possibly by making/selling something on the homestead or possibly extra produce on a roadside stand.

The secret to being as independent as possible is to reduce the amount of money you need. I'm sure there are folks here who can earn 30k - 60k on their homestead, but with only about 3 usable acres out of 26, that is not realistic for us.

Best of luck with your planning.

donsgal

[mousecat33]

I commute 140 miles a day! Off farm job. No social life whatsoever! Wouldnt trade it for any Dallas gal! Its about sacrifice and being true to yourself.

mc and co

[Ambassador]

Good stuff. I see now that part of the thing is not sustaining the same income, but lowering expenses so that you don't need that 30-60k income. These kinds of lessons are beneficial because me being new at the whole idea, I need to catch these kinds of epiphanies.

I suppose at the minimum, I would need to keep an income in the 30's range. I go to school online, so I would still need my high-speed internet (a potential problem in rural areas), and I would need to pay these loans back, plus my cars. After my cars are paid off, that amount would go down significantly.

[Shrek]

The biggest obstacle most would be "homesteaders" face, is the warm fuzzy blinders they choose to wear. They think "homesteading" is the stuff Little house on the prarie eoisodes is made of.

They come on the net posting of how they want to homestead "like the pioneers" and ironically they overlook the fact that pioneers of each era utilized as much technical advancement as was available to them.

If they would simply take off their warm fuzzy blinders and actually look outside the box as most think "homesteaders" should, they would realize that pioneering in the 21st century utilizes the internet as one of the current tech advancements.

"Modern homesteading" can include telecommute work aspects along with BISF agronomic facets to provide self reliancy and sustainability in the frontier of the 21st century.

Even the Amish are using plastics and cell phones now.

A balance between internet telecommuting and small scale farming can make working a 9 to 5 job not a neccesity. Of course why its not neccesary is because it becomes a 5 to 9 work day, but your off the 9 to 5 corporate grind.

Many who have made the technology / agronomic lifestyle mix work, did so after being forced out of industry emloyment and being in the age range of being too old to start over in industry against entry level workforce half their age and too young for age initiated retirement.

Even on Little House on the Prarie, Charles Ingalls often took jobs in the sawmill or as a teamster wagon delivery , which were the industrial employment of the era depicted, in addition to working his farm.

Nobody in any era has survived strictly off their farm without also working in available industry or being large scale enough to qualify as a major supplier in the food supply chain defined by the society of the era.

[BobDFL]

Also remember that your initial land price here in FL. is going to be significantly higher than in other states (the price of winters that are only 2 days a year).

I agree with the off farm job to pay the bills though. We are trying to basically produce 90% of our own food here (advantage of year round gardens, but I can grow wheat for flour), and have the animals pay there own way. By that estimate we should be able to save $10-$15 thousand a year which could be used for retirement and or other investments.

The other thing is diversity in both plants and livestock in order to not have a catastrophic loss and a major loss for the year (common in FL if we have a bad freeze and your relying on citrus).

[stranger]

Originally Posted by Ambassador

What kind of things (other than hard work) would I have to do to sustain a 30-60k income? I don't think I would be interested in raising cattle... I could state reasons, but if that's a good option, I would still like to know what they are. Farming would be cool - depends on what kinds of crops, but I would like to know my options as well. Making things like butters and cheeses (if legal or what have you) would be an interesting way to go for me. I guess I don't mind raising pigs, chickens or others, but I don't necessarily want animals other than to produce their goods (2-3 pigs a year = fun get-togethers, chickens = fresh chicken and eggs every once in a while, goats = milk (or whatever else?), cow = milk and byproducts).

So basically, how do you do it? How would I go about it? Getting rid of my debt won't really happen anytime soon (as much as I would like it to). Are there any options or ways to accomplish this even with existing debt? I'm sure capital has to be quite a bit to start.
I would appreciate any help or advice!

first, you said that you're going to college, are you majoring in something that you could do at home, accounting,ect.?
you could look into beekeeping and collecting honey, wax, making wax products.candles,ect. with a lot of hard work you could net a good living. even sell on line. start out with just 2 hives and work up as you learn.

[Terri]

Will your landlord allow you to garden? Why don't you start now, and see what you think?

On your lot the city would PROBABLY allow you to keep rabbits, pigeons, bees, and of course a garden.

I will say that at the Farmers Markets that I used to sell at, I don't think anybody made more than $15,000 a year off of their little places. Us REALLY little guys might see $50 at the end of a successfull day, and not all days were nearly that good. The really big markets downtown would support a family, but the smaller markets only provided people with some of the income that they needed.

But, it was fun, and a profitable side line business. A greengrocer would bring a big load of fruit and vegetables, and leave his 16 year old neice to sell it. A woman who baked pies in her home to sell to the neighbors would bring desserts to sell and eventually opened a pie store. A homeschooling Mother would bring her kids and a load of homemade bread every week to teach her kids about percentages, net vs. gross profit, and so forth. I sold jelly, and sometimes my kids would set up a lemonade stand right next to me. And, a middle aged couple with 15 acres of vegetables were sending their kids through college with the procedes.

And, when the customers are thin (they prefer to come when it is NOT raining), you get to visit with the folks next to you and pick their brains.

I only know of 2 little places that gave a really good income, enough to support a family, and they were not diverse homesteads. One couple were the Byzinskis (sp) who are flower farmers (you can google them, they live here in Kansas and they are VERY successfull!) and there was a family with greenhouses who sold seedlings, plants, and pots of flowers off of their really tiny hobby farm.

I am sure there are others: but, these are the only 2 families that I have met and spoken to that are making an independant living off of their little homesteads.

[Terri]

Oh, yes.

Like many Americans, I bought a house and land with a mortgage, and we have 2 cars as well. *IF* we had paid cash, we could have knocked $1000 a month off of what we needed to live. And, we don't spend that much on entertaining: the kids have scouts but my own entertainment consists of fishing, gardening, and such.

[ErinP]

I would need to keep an income in the 30's range. I go to school online, so I would still need my high-speed internet (a potential problem in rural areas), and I would need to pay these loans back, plus my cars.

Also, something I caught: You say "cars" as in plural. And you keep referring to yourself as "I" rather than "we" so I'm going to guess you're single.
In which case, that's a good way to cut expenses right there. One vehicle per driver. (Unless you have junkers and need to keep an extra in rotation. But payments on a junker is the topic of a whole 'nother lesson...)

BTW, I live 12 miles from pavement, 30 miles from a gas station and have DSL for $30 per mo... You might be surprised what's available.

Also, something else to consider so far as income/employment options:

We live in a very rural corner of the world (though we've lived in considerably more so!) My husband is employed as a ranch manager, me as a substitute teacher.
Our income still comes primarily from the ranch, but increasingly from my sub. jobs, my online fabric store and odd jobs I do here and there. I have very little stress as I'm doing what I like, when I like usually. (An established sub has the luxury of picking and choosing jobs s/he'll take and eBay is self-explanantory)

Our only serious drawback right now is his job is what provides the house we currently live in.
Five bedroom ranch-style on about 30,000 acres isn't something to take lightly... lol But, our hope is to get our own home built on the little 40 acres chunk of ground we just bought so he can "sub", too. Though in ranching it's called "day work." Same principle though. Flexibility.

Even 1000+ acre family farms have trouble making it work on just the farm's income. There's an old joke that behind every successful farmer is a wife with a job in town.

You might be able to make a living on your "homestead," but I'm going to guess that more likely you'll make enough to free you up for a more flexible, part-time job.

[gunsmithgirl]

I think that your best bet to a sustainable income is diversity.

I work as a gunsmith and as my reputation is growing I am finding it easier to move my business to the country with me. I now have firearms shipped by mail to me from all over for repair. I am also doing services for gun shops and have a once a week pick-up and drop-off schedule.

Look at what skills you have and see if there is a way to bring income from that as well. Also as mentioned before try to keep your expenses low.

[Jay]

Check out some of the books listed on this thread:
http://http://www.homesteadingtoday....d.php?t=250345
Also, reduce debt as much as you can now. Evaluate what you have now, what you don't need (too many cars, stuff, etc) and see what is sucking the most $$ out of your pocket and do your best to 'fix' it. (Eating out, name brand whatever....things like that.)
Learn all you can and learn to sacrifice now, makes it "not so bad" when you actually jump in and do it. The sooner you can start to save up some money the better. Land prices ain't gettin' cheaper anytime soon!

Some folks write for income, others grow and sell stuff--I do both. You tend to become a "jack of all trades--master of none" doing this type of thing. I typically ignore what the "real world" trends, etc are and "do my own thing". Keeps my life simplier AND cheaper!

[ChristyACB]

Ambassador,

You have very good and valid questions.

The key to all of this is: Everyone who really did this took a huge risk and they did give up things you and I take for granted.

What they gained by taking this risk, investing in their daily labors and learning to do things most of America can't even remember used to be done by people is of enormous value..their independence.

While I think we are different situations now, I'm also in surburbia until retirement in a couple of years but Terri gives you very sound advice.

Start now! This year grow a garden and get good at it now. Buy flats of tomatoes and such at the great prices your local booths give during the season and learn to can.

If that works, expand to chickens. If that works, look at goats...etc. Beekeeping is a profoundly valuable skill (I wish I could here but the villagers would be after me with pitchforks ) and that would be both a money making and self-sufficiency item you could learn.

Here is my example:
I know what it is to be young and wanting to do it now. Really I do. I was exactly the same but I did realize that there was no way I could do it at 19. I got my education and joined a field that I knew I would be able to retire from with a small pension at a fairly young age. I learned skills like repair, building (to some extent but don't inspect it!), and the thousand little things that come up that we call repairmen or landlords for. Now I'm gardening, canning and learning that part of it.

No one just packs up and moves to an independent country life without at least some knowledge or skills. Whether they learned it as a child and feel confident about picking it back up or they sat in Barnes and Noble for countless hours reading all the books, they all learned how to get started. You will too, but you can do it!

Best advice has already been given: Start now using Urban Sustainable Living practices, pay off debts, build a nest egg and then....go for the gold! Whatever you do, stick to it and don't give up.

[Phantomfyre]

Originally Posted by Ambassador

Good stuff. I see now that part of the thing is not sustaining the same income, but lowering expenses so that you don't need that 30-60k income.

Bingo! How we do it: DH works to earn the money and I work to SAVE it.

[stranger]

Originally Posted by gunsmithgirl

I think that your best bet to a sustainable income is diversity.

I work as a gunsmith and as my reputation is growing I am finding it easier to move my business to the country with me. I now have firearms shipped by mail to me from all over for repair. I am also doing services for gun shops and have a once a week pick-up and drop-off schedule.
Look at what skills you have and see if there is a way to bring income from that as well. Also as mentioned before try to keep your expenses low.

that's all good til you don't dot the right i and the BTAF knocks your door down in the middle of the night or the politions keep taking gun owners rights, then you have to start over.

[AJ Williams]

Originally Posted by stranger

that's all good til you don't dot the right i and the BTAF knocks your door down in the middle of the night or the politions keep taking gun owners rights, then you have to start over.

I really don't see this as a problem for her right now. If you keep your business transparent to a certain extent you won't have to worry about Uncle!

[Ambassador]

Wow a ton and a half of stuff to think about! Where do I start? Well I guess I'll do it in chronological order...
I do have more specific questions but I am really bound for time right now. But here's what I've been able to respond to so far...

Shrek:

The biggest obstacle most would be "homesteaders" face, is the warm fuzzy blinders they choose to wear. They think "homesteading" is the stuff Little house on the prarie eoisodes is made of.

It's a good thing I never watched that show then!
But seriously, I read your post and I have to agree. I had to examine if I had blinders on, and maybe I do to some extent. I've seen the work done, and I know it is not easy. I took your post to heart. I didn't think that I was going to be retiring to a ranch entirely at first - so don't get me wrong on that. I definitely think it would be a process - and those jobs would be quite necessary at least at first. But anyhow, I really appreciate your advice!


BobDFL:
I heart FL. I lived there most of my life. Fantastic weather!
Anyhow... I definitely would want to be diverse to some extent... I'm just not totally sure how to go about it. I suppose I can consider more carefully the livestock aspect since you mention it. Thanks for the advice!


Stranger:
I do go to college. I am going for a B.S. major in Video Game Art & Design. Not too many telecommuting aspects to it, but there's ways to use that degree to my advantage. The difficult part is finding an industry job anyway.

As far as beekeeping, as much as I'd hate to say it... I don't think I would be getting into it... but I'm certainly not going to rule it out as a money maker though. Thanks for the advice!


Terri:
Really great advice here. I cannot offer too many excuses as to why I don't make my own garden. I don't live in the city... I'm on a 2.5 acre lot sharing it with another trailer and a house. We have lots of space to plant a garden. My neighbors have one - I think it is of some considerable size for a small garden. Something like 20ft x 15ft.

The "reasons" I have not done these things is because we're really tired of this place. Our landlady is a slumlord and doesn't fix our problems. I'm not talking about a leaky faucet or small dumb things like that. I mean 30% of our floor in one of our bedrooms is caving in. The only thing stopping any of us from going through is the carpet. It is a major hazard and she has known about this for about 2-3 years and she hasn't done anything about it. This has been an ongoing issue even before that, but she's done repairs before - of course... after a few years of the problem occurring. We haven't really been pressing her because of several reasons... we're tired of this place so we might end up moving anyway, and rent is low and she always threatens us with upping the rent when she fixes anything. So we figure we should just save our money for something better at this point.

Each time we turn around we have more junk. We throw away a lot of stuff but now we have way too much storage. I'm in that bedroom right now with the floors - luckily it is a den. This room is like a storage room on one side, and office on the other.

Well anyway... we're pretty tired of this place and never want to do anything permanent because of that reason. I truly believe if this were our land (we have offered to buy it from her, and I can tell she's tempted, but she wants to leave the whole lot to her son), we would have a garden and a solid floor.

As far as animals, that is certainly a no-go. We have two "clandestine" rabbits
(clandestine meaning without her knowledge). We got our first rabbit about 5 years ago because she lets the neighbors (also part of our lot like I explained above) to have a dog. And then a new cat. The other neighbor also got a dog, but yet we weren't allowed to have pets. This really angered us because there was no reason why one house or trailer should be able to enjoy animals and not us. So we did it anyway. We felt guilty so we wrote her about the fact that we got a little rabbit in hopes of the old saying being true - "better to ask forgiveness than permission". And it was still a no-go. This was several years ago and I suppose she's under the impression that we got rid of the rabbit, but it hasn't really been spoken of. We got our rabbit a sister about a year ago because she was lonely.

So with that said, I can only imagine how she would go bonkers if we had any animals. Kind of a sucky predicament! =(

ErinP:
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding... I meant to let everyone know I am married (I mentioned it on another thread, but I forgot to mention it here). I do have two economic vehicles.
Other than that, I enjoyed your post. Good advice... and 30,000!!! Can I just have 5??? =D

gunsmithgirl:
Thanks for that! I will keep that in mind! =D

Jay:
Valuable advice. I will check into those books. And about the price of land... tell me about it! In MD, an acre goes for over 1.5k!

ChristyACB:
Thanks for the advice! I know I wish I could just dive into the stuff! But I am aware that it is not something to dive into like that. I don't think I will do it that way, but I didn't really make myself too clear and I could totally understand how I gave that impression. Nevertheless your post was very refreshing!

PhantomFyre:
LOL! Same here, except without any kind of homesteading! lolol

[Terri]

OH!

OK.

If you do not want to put any money into your landlords property, then do not put any money into a garden. Nothing other than pocket change, that is!

Do you mow? Do you collect the lawn clippings? Just dump them onto one spot and let the grass die underneath it. Then, make little holes in the heap of grass clippings, and plant a few tomato or broccoli seedlings.

You won't have to weed because of the heavy mulch: just water when you think it needs it. You will only need to pick the tomatoes and cut the broccolli. And, most broccolli will set new sprouts after you cut it, so you can harvest for the rest of the year.

Since you are in school, I KNOW that you have almost no time or energy to spare! But, a heavy mulch will make your garden work-free, excepting for bugs and excepting for watering it if it does not rain. And, how many tomatos can 2 people eat? A tiny garden would serve you well.