Farming is Agribusiness

[Windy in Kansas]

I often see posts which lead me to believe that many don't like the term agribusiness nor really think of farming as a true business.

There is a business in Kansas that is associated with Kansas State University that is called Kansas Farm Management Association. They don't manage farms, but they do provide a service which gives up to the minute information, book auditing, tax preparation, etc. for farms that choose to join. Most generally those that join tend to have pretty much average sized farm, at least from my past experience having used their services in the 1970s and early 1980s.

Having said that here is a newspaper blurb today giving some of the report for the year of 2007. With nearly record wheat yields in western Kansas and near record prices those figures somewhat offset the crops in other areas that weren't even harvested due to late freeze, etc.

My point is for you to look at the amount of money the average farm handled and you will see that farming is indeed a business, i.e. agribusiness. Well if I handled a half million per year I would sure want to do it business like. The farms are probably about 2,000 acres or less. Remember too that in Kansas much of the land has to be fallowed in order to gain enough moisture for a crop, meaning that there isn't a crop on the land every year and some of the acreage would be pasture land with a low stocking rate. We figured 8 acres per cow/calf pair for the county I used to live in.

The average value of farm production among its members statewide last year was pegged at $407,787, with average farm expenses of $292,752. The average government payment per farm was $24,000

http://www.hutchnews.com/Todaystop/farmincome

The net incomes look good per farm until you factor in all of the hours the farmer and family actually worked.

Yes, farming is indeed agribusiness. Also remember that expenses don't stop if there is a crop failure.

[ladycat]

I agree that farming is a business. It's CAFO's and multinational agricultural corporations I don't like.

I think the reason people don't like the idea of big monoculture farms is because they cling to the idea of the traditional family farm, like great-grandpa had.

[sunflower-n-ks]

This may or may not be what you are refering to, but the feed lot operation that I am close to boggles my mind as to what goes into it from an outside perspective. The numbers of cattle that are moved through and the amount of acreage that is planted to feed crops and how they are rotated, the number of men that are hired to do the work, etc. I don't know the owner or talk to him about his business, but he would have to be a very good business man and very knowledgeable about the land, crops, cattle, etc, etc, to keep it all going. And has for many years. What else could you call it but Agribusiness?

[rambler]

Originally Posted by ladycat

I think the reason people don't like the idea of big monoculture farms is because they cling to the idea of the traditional family farm, like great-grandpa had.

What would you call a mono-culture farm? Perhaps in the dry wheat areas of the west they grow a lot of wheat on wheat. I think they are so dry, no onther crop will grow well so there is little to rotate with.

Most of the midwest, we grow corn & soybeans, with small amounts of alfalfa, wheat, oats, sweet corn, peas, and other minor crops. These tend to rotate around & through to different crops on the land. Of late some corn on corn is planted, but folks are discovering that yields go up a bit after the 3rd year doing this, rather than dropping off. But, most all crops are rotated around over a 5 year period, most often alternat corn & soybeans from one year to the next.

This is the type of farming I am used to.

Where is the monoculture that you mention, or is what we are doing considered monoculture to you?

Thanks.

--->Paul

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by rambler

What would you call a mono-culture farm? Perhaps in the dry wheat areas of the west they grow a lot of wheat on wheat. I think they are so dry, no onther crop will grow well so there is little to rotate with.

Most of the midwest, we grow corn & soybeans, with small amounts of alfalfa, wheat, oats, sweet corn, peas, and other minor crops. These tend to rotate around & through to different crops on the land. Of late some corn on corn is planted, but folks are discovering that yields go up a bit after the 3rd year doing this, rather than dropping off. But, most all crops are rotated around over a 5 year period, most often alternat corn & soybeans from one year to the next.

This is the type of farming I am used to.

Where is the monoculture that you mention, or is what we are doing considered monoculture to you?

Thanks.

--->Paul

What you're doing isn't monoculture. Monoculture can be many things- grain, potatoes, sugarcane, pineapples or other fruits, coffee, tea, seafoods such as shrimp, and dozens of other crops.

Generally when people think of monoculture and/or agribusiness, they think of the huge conglomerates who buy up millions of acres. I myself think of those as corporate ag companies. I don't equate that with family farms, although many family farms contract with such companies.

The average joe thinks of a "farm" as a traditional family farm. In reality, some are and some aren't.

[ErinP]

agribusiness is at it's most basic, any business that is based in agriculture. Ie, not only are farms (and ranches!) agri-business, so are things like Co-Op, Simplot or Cargill.

[seedspreader]

In my mind, MONOculture is about planting the same genetic crops (on all the farms), more than entire areas producing wheat, or rape seed (as our Canadian plains neighbors) etc.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by ladycat

What you're doing isn't monoculture. Monoculture can be many things- grain, potatoes, sugarcane, pineapples or other fruits, coffee, tea, seafoods such as shrimp, and dozens of other crops.

Generally when people think of monoculture and/or agribusiness, they think of the huge conglomerates who buy up millions of acres. I myself think of those as corporate ag companies. I don't equate that with family farms, although many family farms contract with such companies.

The average joe thinks of a "farm" as a traditional family farm. In reality, some are and some aren't.

Thanks. So, is monoculture practied much in the USA???? I can't think of many areas it would apply to. Brazil seems to have soybean area, sugarcane area, corn area - much more mono cropping. I believe China also has areas that are so suited for one crop & not suited for anything to rotate with it....

Agribusiness is in the eye of the beholder, I've seen farm sizes of 40 acres being described as too big here; while big operations of 2500 acres run by 3 family (dad & 2 sons etc) are considered small family farm in many areas.

--->Paul

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by rambler

Thanks. So, is monoculture practied much in the USA???? I can't think of many areas it would apply to.

When I was living in Florida, I was surrounded by millions of acres of paper pines, all owned by the same company.

Around here where I'm living now, some farmers grow nothing but wheat year after year, and some grow nothing but cotton.

In an area of Oklahoma not far from me, there are thousands of acres of nothing but watermelons and cantalopes, grown year after year.

In an area of Texas the other direction, about 8 miles from me, is thousands of acres of peach groves.

Throughout the south, including Texas, there are hundreds of massive pecan groves, many of them 10's of 1000's of acres per single grove.

In various areas of the US, there are many examples of monoculture: rice in the south, pineapples in Hawaii, apples in the northwest, peaches in Georgia, vineyards, lettuce, and asparagus in California, potatoes in the middle of the country, catfish in southern parts, massive rose fields in central east Texas (the rose capital of the world - incredibly beautiful for mile after mile after mile in spring and early summer).... and on and on.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by ladycat

Generally when people think of monoculture and/or agribusiness, they think of the huge conglomerates who buy up millions of acres. I myself think of those as corporate ag companies. I don't equate that with family farms, although many family farms contract with such companies.

Monoculture is planting the same crop year after year on the same ground. Doesn't matter if it's 1 acre or 1,000 acres. "Mono" is "one". Monoculture may take place on one single farm or field or all farms or fields in a given area.

Ted Turner is the largest landowner in the US at 1,910,000 acres so even he doesn't own millions. Can't find any "conglomerate" who owns more than him. King Ranch is the biggest ranch at 825,000. Since it's less than a million, I suppose that it's just another family farm?

Martin

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Monoculture is planting the same crop year after year on the same ground. Doesn't matter if it's 1 acre or 1,000 acres. "Mono" is "one". Monoculture may take place on one single farm or field or all farms or fields in a given area.

Ted Turner is the largest landowner in the US at 1,910,000 acres so even he doesn't own millions. Can't find any "conglomerate" who owns more than him. King Ranch is the biggest ranch at 825,000. Since it's less than a million, I suppose that it's just another family farm?

Martin

The farmed trees (nice neat rows, all the same size on a given tract), crossed 2 counties that I know of. You could drive for many miles and see nothing but farmed slash pines. It was not contiguous land; there were towns and farms in between.

Slash Pine ( Pinus elliottii Engelm.)
This is the common tree of pine plantations throughout Florida. Millions of acres of slash pine ( Figure 3 ) have been planted, grown, and harvested. It takes about 30 years for slash pine trees to reach sawtimber size. Younger trees are harvested for pulpwood which is converted to many products.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FR003

MeadWestvaco has facilities in more than 29 countries and owns approximately 1.2 million acres of forestlands[slash pines for paper]. In 2005, the company sold its Paper division and half of its forestlands in a $2.3 billion deal.[they owned 2 1/2 million acres before 2005. You can google a LOT of info about Mead Paper Co.]
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n19123538

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by ladycat

The farmed trees (nice neat rows, all the same size on a given tract), crossed 2 counties that I know of. You could drive for many miles and see nothing but farmed slash pines. It was not contiguous land; there were towns and farms in between.

Slash Pine ( Pinus elliottii Engelm.)
This is the common tree of pine plantations throughout Florida. Millions of acres of slash pine ( Figure 3 ) have been planted, grown, and harvested. It takes about 30 years for slash pine trees to reach sawtimber size. Younger trees are harvested for pulpwood which is converted to many products.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FR003

MeadWestvaco has facilities in more than 29 countries and owns approximately 1.2 million acres of forestlands[slash pines for paper]. In 2005, the company sold its Paper division and half of its forestlands in a $2.3 billion deal.[they owned 2 1/2 million acres before 2005. You can google a LOT of info about Mead Paper Co.]
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n19123538

Good grief! You are really stretching the facts to consider a forest as being an agribusiness! Never was taught anything about forestry in ag class!

Martin

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Good grief! You are really stretching the facts to consider a forest as being an agribusiness! Never was taught anything about forestry in ag class!

Martin

They are farmed! From those trees they get paper, lumber, turpentine, and who knows what else.

They are planted, maintained, harvested, and replanted. How is that not farming?

Farming is not just edible products. Farming can include things like cotton, hemp, tobacco, cork, and rubber.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by ladycat

They are farmed! From those trees they get paper, lumber, turpentine, and who knows what else.

They are planted, maintained, harvested, and replanted. How is that not farming?

That is not, NOT connected to agriculture in any, ANY way! If it were, every single state or national forest would have to be considered a farm. NO person engaged in agriculture is in the habit of planting and harvesting a forest. Owners and managers of lumber, pulp, or recreational forests have never been called anything but foresters. If you plant 10 pine trees in your back yard and there is a chance that they will someday be cut down for ANY purpose, it sure doesn't make you a farmer!

Do you realize what your claim means? According to your claim, agribusiness is a conglomerate which own MILLIONS of acres. Since such conglomerates ONLY deal in forest products, anyone with LESS than a million acres of anything is OK!

Martin

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by Paquebot

That is not, NOT connected to agriculture in any, ANY way! If it were, every single state or national forest would have to be considered a farm. NO person engaged in agriculture is in the habit of planting and harvesting a forest. Owners and managers of lumber, pulp, or recreational forests have never been called anything but foresters. If you plant 10 pine trees in your back yard and there is a chance that they will someday be cut down for ANY purpose, it sure doesn't make you a farmer!

Do you realize what your claim means? According to your claim, agribusiness is a conglomerate which own MILLIONS of acres. Since such conglomerates ONLY deal in forest products, anyone with LESS than a million acres of anything is OK!

Martin

It's privately owned and it's monoculture.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Do you realize what your claim means? According to your claim, agribusiness is a conglomerate which own MILLIONS of acres. Since such conglomerates ONLY deal in forest products, anyone with LESS than a million acres of anything is OK!

BTW, how did you draw this conclusion? The discussion had drifted to monoculture so I was giving examples of monoculture.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by ladycat

It's privately owned and it's monoculture.

It's a forest! It is not in any way connected with agriculture. It is also not in any way connected with agribusiness. Only a tiny majority of people are unable to distinguish between agriculture and forestry.

Martin

[ladycat]

It's called a farm when people are growing Christmas trees. That's a pretty brisk business in some parts of the country.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by ladycat

BTW, how did you draw this conclusion? The discussion had drifted to monoculture so I was giving examples of monoculture.

Go back and read reply #5 on this thread to find your claim of what constitutes agribusiness. Your claim was: "millions of acres." You state: "I myself think of those as corporate ag companies." Timber was not mentioned in that reply nor should it have been since it has nothing to do with agribusiness.

Martin

[rambler]

I am sorry if I took this message off topic.

I find it very odd to consider a forest operation to be a monoculture. Whether called agriculture or forestery, either way it is managing the crop on the land.

However forest land typically only does grow trees well. One can't rotate very well.

Also, trees need to grow 20-40 years or more to be mature - I do not consider that time frame to be 'monoculture' but just the natural cycle of the crop. I wonder if the _exact_ species of tree is regorwn cycle after cycle? Even so, this is a rather extreme view of monoculture.

Perannuals such as trees, alfalfa, grass hay would seem outside of consideration on this.

Just in my opinion.

I am surprised that mellons are grown constantly on the same property. Disease buildup would be a problem with that type of crop.

I had thought of the pinapples myself, don't know much about growing them - sugarcane in Hawaii too I bet. I will assume that property in that climate is so specialized on what it grows well that it is very hard to find anything to rotate it to.

So often the monoculture claim is pointed at farmers (grain farmers) here in the midwest, never had understood that - doesn't seem like it happens unless there is no possible alternative. For ther most part.

--->Paul