?? about drinking unpasturized milk

[stef]

A friend has access to unpasturized milk from an Amish family. I've never drunk it, but would like to give it a try.

Are there any microbe/germ/virus/sanitation issues I should be concerned about?

Stef

[billooo2]

You may want to ask if the animals have been tested for TB and brucellosis.. These are diseases that are pretty rare in most parts of the US, but they can be transmitted to humans by drinking milk from contaminated animals. The tests are only about $3-4/test/animal. (although there are some areas where deer and buffalo are transmitting brucellosis to domestic cattle).

You may want to visit the farm to make sure that it is being produced in a manner that you are satisfied with the sanitary conditions.

I live in the midst of the world's largest Amish settlement. The different orders of Amish have different rules. (So, you can have 2 Amish families living beside each other, and living by a different set of rules.) Many of the Amish in this area are allowed to used electricity in their place of business, but not in their houses. Therefore, many of them have electricity in their barns and operate grade A dairies.

Around here the "lowest"order of Amish are known as the "Schwartzentrubers," and they are not even allowed to have running water in their houses.

The hospital that I used to work for would do "health fairs" for the Amish, and there was always a lot of interest in hygiene and sanitation information.

The interest was because they did not know ......not because they do not care. (Around here, Amish do not attend school past the 8th grade)

I am a proponent for the availability of raw milk, but the consumer needs to be aware that all raw milk is not the same.

Raw milk from grass based dairies has components that are often missing in "feedlot operations." From what I have read, uncontaminated raw milk from healthy animals is better for you than pasteurized milk. But the "operative words are "healthy" and "uncontaminated."

[Jim-mi]

I can't help but wonder if you would offend them by asking if the tests had been done . .?

[THETOOLMAN]

I Grew up drinking fresh milk. OH, the cream that rose to the top.MMMmmm

[ChasingDreams]

great post billooo2 - a clean farm that practices responsible sanitation, and chills the milk rapidly should be a great source of very nutritious and delicious milk!

http://www.realmilk.com has info on the benefits of raw milk, and dispels some myths

Cheers!

[Chixarecute]

When I married DH, a dairy farmer, I discovered the most wonderful milk - supercooled in a stainless bulk tank - and it happended to be RAW! Hubby's family were grade B dairy farmers, and their milk quality rivaled the best grade A dairies - low somatic counts, low plate (bacterial) counts.

Having said all that, one major potential issue with raw milk is listeriosis - a nasty, nasty bacteria that (please help, I hope I am remembering this right...& I was a dairy science production & technology major at college) causes miscarriage/abortion if consumed while pregnant.

I do not remember if milk sold to a milk processor is routinely tested for listeriosis...however if this family sells their milk to a commercial processor you could ask the family to check into it.

It is hopefully, probably, somewhat rare, however the conditions that lead to listeriosis in milk are out of your control. Remember, however, that milk that tested clean last week could test postive next week, (contaminated) cousin comes to visit, milks cows without washing hands or washing udders....

Pasteurization kills listeriosis. Be informed, be careful.

[stranger]

if the Amish ain't sick, then it's safe for you. just start out on it slow, some people get diarrhea from drinking raw milk the first time til their system gets used to it.

[scorpian5]

Its not that the milks not safe its that it could be unsafe. Dogs drink from toilets and dont get sick but im not going to

[ChasingDreams]

I would hardly compare drinking 'real' milk to drinking out of a toilet!

fwiw - there's a risk of falling ill to bacteria in just about everything we eat... just pick your sources wisely!

[MullersLaneFarm]

Originally Posted by Jim-mi

I can't help but wonder if you would offend them by asking if the tests had been done . .?

We're not Amish, but we do have a Jersey. We are relieved when prospective customers ask questions about milk hygiene and tests.

It tells us they have done their homework about drinking raw milk.

[Forerunner]

We've raised four kids on raw milk for 13 years and never had a problem.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by ChasingDreams

I would hardly compare drinking 'real' milk to drinking out of a toilet!

Cows are not known for always being particular where they lay down. You flush a toilet and you wash a cow's udder. In both instances, it is to rid the surface of any visible manure. One is human, the other bovine.

Martin

[stranger]

chance are if that Amish farmer ships milk to a plant, it's safe, you could always boil it if it makes you feel better.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by Chixarecute

I do not remember if milk sold to a milk processor is routinely tested for listeriosis...however if this family sells their milk to a commercial processor you could ask the family to check into it.

Yes, it is. In fact, Pennsylvania had to order recalls on products from 2 farm dairies last month and both were for testing positive for listeria.
http://foodpoisoning.pritzkerlaw.com...nsylvania.html

Since this thread is about buying from Amish, they would have to be those who are modern enough to have a pipeline milking system and cooler in order to qualify for Grade A in this state. Milk cans and water tanks went out of style over 50 years ago, even for Grade B!

Martin

[billooo2]

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Yes, it is. In fact, Pennsylvania had to order recalls on products from 2 farm dairies last month and both were for testing positive for listeria.
http://foodpoisoning.pritzkerlaw.com...nsylvania.html

Since this thread is about buying from Amish, they would have to be those who are modern enough to have a pipeline milking system and cooler in order to qualify for Grade A in this state. Milk cans and water tanks went out of style over 50 years ago, even for Grade B!

Martin

Thanks for the link.

I find a couple of things interesting........
1. The list of other contaminated products on the sidebar........I wonder if the Penn Dept of Agriculture shut down all of those places???? (There appears to be some sort of double standard when raw milk is involved.)
2. No one has reported becoming sick. Could it be due to the fact that raw milk contains various antimicrobial components that seem to actually counteract a certain amount of contamination. (consider....a calf born in the field nurses on a teat that has not been cleaned off.......and still manages to survive and thrive!!!)

People drank raw milk for how many centuries????? If raw milk was half as dangerous as some claim.....the human race would have never survived.

Question" If raw milk is banned by some states for reasons of public safety, then why are peanuts allowed? Peanuts are deadly to anyone with a severe allergy to them, but they are everywhere!!! There seems to be a a profound hypocrisy at work!!

[Maura]

The TB bacterium found in cows is not the human TB bacterium. Humans cannot get TB from cows. When cows are milked, the teats are washed or treated in some way prior to being milked. Go to the farm and watch how the cows are milked. The milk is fine, but if conditions are not sanitary you may have problems.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by billooo2

People drank raw milk for how many centuries????? If raw milk was half as dangerous as some claim.....the human race would have never survived.

Milk straight from the cow is usually safe. Many times I opened my mouth and squeezed a long stream straight in! It's everything in between the cows teat and your mouth that poses the problems. For years, it was OK to start milking with a pail of clear water and disinfectant and a single cloth rag. That was to wash the mud and manure off the udders. After 25-30 cows, the water was the same color as the mud and manure! Milk was dumped into an open strainer with the filter pad mainly to catch the flies that were constantly drowning in it. Between transferring strainer from one can to the other, a fly or two might slip in along with hay chaff sifting through the boards above. As long as it was just going for cheese, it didn't really matter as the foreign matter usually remained in the whey. Cooling was in a water tank that barely kept the milk from souring. Amazing that we survived at all!

Question" If raw milk is banned by some states for reasons of public safety, then why are peanuts allowed? Peanuts are deadly to anyone with a severe allergy to them, but they are everywhere!!! There seems to be a a profound hypocrisy at work!!

Both peanuts and milk are an allergen and treated equally. If you look at labels, you will note that there will be a dairy products warning on products which may have it as a non-obvious ingredient. For instance, if you buy a gallon of milk, it obviously contains milk and a warning is not needed. But if you buy a chocolate candy bar which has milk as an ingredient, there will be a warning on the label. Separate from the list of ingredients will be "Contains: milk". A package of macaroni and cheese will have "Contains: wheat, milk".

Peanut warnings get even more particular because of their danger. "This product is produced on packaging equipment shared with peanut and tree nut products." That's the allergy warning on the Trail Mix "Sweet & Nutty" package!

Martin

[haypoint]

Humans can contract TB from cow's milk. Medical fact. In the early stages the TB isn't in the milk, but as the disease progresses, often with no outward signs, it does get into the milk and humans can get it. Rare situation. Listeria on the other hand isn't so rare. I'm more conserned about a flip of a tail or a kick and you've got a hunk of crap in the pail. Does the milker scoop it out with his hand or dump the whole pail and start over?

[sammyd]

One of the local cheese places around here went to cans again to placate the Amish community. We were their last can customer back in 71 until the big Amish boom a few years ago.

[stranger]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Humans can contract TB from cow's milk. Medical fact. In the early stages the TB isn't in the milk, but as the disease progresses, often with no outward signs, it does get into the milk and humans can get it. Rare situation. Listeria on the other hand isn't so rare. I'm more conserned about a flip of a tail or a kick and you've got a hunk of crap in the pail. Does the milker scoop it out with his hand or dump the whole pail and start over?

I see what you're saying, before the middle 60s, our milk went in cans that were in the middle of the barn floor, they were supposed to be in the milk house but the inspectors were never around when we milked, many times milk would be in a pail setting in the middle of the floor with a couple cats drinking out of it or when a cow took a crap, but it all went in the strainer, we always took milk to our house from the same cow. or when we hand stripped the cows, everything was in the pail, we didn't even wash the teats til probably 63.

then came the pipe line and bulk tank, washed the bags with a disinfectent, the driver took a sample everyday, no more mastitus milk in the tank, no more fresh cows milk in the tank, we usually fed the calves fresh cows milk for a few days til it cleared up, but if it looked good, it went in the can, for .90 cents a hundred, nothing was waisted. if people olny knew what they drank back in the 40s, 50s,. i even hauled milk to the plant in cans and the only inspection back then was a guy knocking the cover off the can and smelling the milk, if it smelled ok, in it went. a can was never refused, even after setting out in the hot sun for a few hrs.