Learning about soils

[pcdreams]

I am interested in learning about soils and soil building (fertility).. Looking for any good sites that explain the basics as well as things like the chemistry, biology, etc elements of soils.

To give you an idea I've started reading "hands-on agronomy" and while I enjoy the book and the theory makes sense, I don't have enough chem, biology, etc to make sense of a lot of it. Factor that in with not knowing soil type etc and I'm lost.

Thanks,

Don

[agmantoo]

pcdreams, if you want to read about something that is extremely interesting regarding soils start with doing a Google search on Terra preta. I doubt if you will believe what you read but supposedly this is true. Let me know what you think.

[Forerunner]

"Rodale's Complete Book of Composting", older edition,

Peter Tompkin's and Christopher Bird's,
"The Secret Life of Plants", and "Secrets of the Soil",

will take you into worlds you never dreamed existed.

[pcdreams]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

pcdreams, if you want to read about something that is extremely interesting regarding soils start with doing a Google search on Terra preta. I doubt if you will believe what you read but supposedly this is true. Let me know what you think.

Very interesting. I don't know a lot about soils yet but from what I've read I though carbon (more specifically charcoal) didn't really add anything to the soil. Though their thoughts on low temp burn is interesting I don't think its likely.

Really don't know what to make of it. To me the only thing that makes sense
is perhaps these soils are produced along a convergent or divergent (darn can't remember which is which now) plate. thus the explanation of its regeneration.. don't know though.. seems its being regenerated pretty quickly.

then you have those organisms that reclaim oil.. makes you wonder if they have relatives that could eat charcoal and release the nutrients back into the soil??

Then theres the pottery parts they keep finding.. Maybe those "hollow earth" people were right after all

All very x-fileish

[tomjones]

AS a practical tool and for a lot of good information on what you have, USDA's Web Soil Survey is hard to beat. Lets you learn a lot about your soil as you learn in general.

www.websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov

I us eit literally every day.

Tom

[Cabin Fever]

Well, if you ever have a specific question regarding soil chemistry, biology or physics, I will be glad to attempt to answer it....or if you have a difficult time using the web soil survey. I have to put my MS degree in Soil Science to some use, dontchaknow.

[Paquebot]

Understanding what makes up each type of soil is also handy. The 3 main parts are clay, sand, and silt. Percentages of each determine what type it is. Studying the soil triangle would be a good place to start.

www.oneplan.org/Water/soil-triangle.shtml

Martin

[jlxian]

Gene Logsdon wrote a great book about soil building, sadly I cannot remember the title right now! (sorry, I'm at work). Its something like Homestead soil or the like. If you check a library for Gene Logsdon books, you will find it I'm certain.

[blufford]

Originally Posted by jlxian

Gene Logsdon wrote a great book about soil building, sadly I cannot remember the title right now! (sorry, I'm at work). Its something like Homestead soil or the like. If you check a library for Gene Logsdon books, you will find it I'm certain.

Here is a list of books from Gene Logsdon and a review of the book that I believe that jlxian is refering;

http://books.google.com/books?as_aut...gational&hl=en

The Gardener's Guide to Better Soil
Review from the Tumbledown Farmer http://tumbledownfarm.blogspot.com/
The Gardener's Guide to Better Soil by Gene Logsdon and the editors of Organic Gardening and Farming. 1975. Rodale Press.

"The thing is, the most important thing to know about a book is whether the author writes well. That goes double for non-fiction writing. I really don't care whether Mr. Logsdon knows how to garden if he doesn't know how to write. Thankfully, he knows how to do both well. And the book holds up well for its age, written in the 1970s, during the last oil (and chemical fertilizer) crisis. While most of us conveniently forgot for the intervening 30 years about the limits of fossil fuels, a small cadre of organic gardeners and farmers continued to ask how to produce food in sufficient quality and quantity when (not if) the oil runs out.

Logsdon's genius for spinning a yarn is evident on nearly every page. The book contains everything a gardener would ever want to know about the soil, and then some. But it also drops other gems of gardening knowledge and lore along the way. For example, chapter 2 begins with a "conversation" between two gardeners on a road trip and continues with a recommendation for (and description of) a cross-country "Soilwatching Trip" from the Pine Barrens to the mountains and deserts of the West. And the itinerary includes a short course in the basics: soil types, soil maps, soil texture, soil tests, nutrients (N-P-K), micronutrients, organic matter, humus, drainage, pH, mulching, composting, organic fertilizers, and green manures. And somewhere along the way, Logsdon finds the time to talk about buying good farmland and to explain such gardening essentials as crop rotation, even offering examples of useful rotations and gardening tool recommendations.

There are a few caveats. One is that the dichotomy between "chemical" and "organic" fertilizers is too starkly drawn. The gardener worthy the name will neither dump chemicals willy-nilly on the garden nor avoid them altogether. Chemical fertilizers will have their place in growing vegetables so long as they are inexpensively available. (That they will not be available indefinitely is a reason to know and begin to use the alternatives.) Another example is Logsdon's east-Ohio centric vision of farming and gardening. When he approves without reservation most things that raise the pH of the soil, it is fairly clear that he has usually gardened and farmed an acid soil. Gardeners in central Indiana will want to approach with caution any soil emendation that raises a pH that is probably already too high for optimum plant growth. But these are really quibbles with a great literary romp through what every gardener should know about the ground under his feet."

[jlxian]

Yep, that's the one. THANKS blufford! Great review about Logsdon. He is a wonderful writer.

[pcdreams]

Originally Posted by blufford

Here is a list of books from Gene Logsdon and a review of the book that I believe that jlxian is refering;

http://books.google.com/books?as_aut...gational&hl=en

The Gardener's Guide to Better Soil
Review from the Tumbledown Farmer http://tumbledownfarm.blogspot.com/
The Gardener's Guide to Better Soil by Gene Logsdon and the editors of Organic Gardening and Farming. 1975. Rodale Press.

"The thing is, the most important thing to know about a book is whether the author writes well. That goes double for non-fiction writing. I really don't care whether Mr. Logsdon knows how to garden if he doesn't know how to write. Thankfully, he knows how to do both well. And the book holds up well for its age, written in the 1970s, during the last oil (and chemical fertilizer) crisis. While most of us conveniently forgot for the intervening 30 years about the limits of fossil fuels, a small cadre of organic gardeners and farmers continued to ask how to produce food in sufficient quality and quantity when (not if) the oil runs out.

Logsdon's genius for spinning a yarn is evident on nearly every page. The book contains everything a gardener would ever want to know about the soil, and then some. But it also drops other gems of gardening knowledge and lore along the way. For example, chapter 2 begins with a "conversation" between two gardeners on a road trip and continues with a recommendation for (and description of) a cross-country "Soilwatching Trip" from the Pine Barrens to the mountains and deserts of the West. And the itinerary includes a short course in the basics: soil types, soil maps, soil texture, soil tests, nutrients (N-P-K), micronutrients, organic matter, humus, drainage, pH, mulching, composting, organic fertilizers, and green manures. And somewhere along the way, Logsdon finds the time to talk about buying good farmland and to explain such gardening essentials as crop rotation, even offering examples of useful rotations and gardening tool recommendations.

There are a few caveats. One is that the dichotomy between "chemical" and "organic" fertilizers is too starkly drawn. The gardener worthy the name will neither dump chemicals willy-nilly on the garden nor avoid them altogether. Chemical fertilizers will have their place in growing vegetables so long as they are inexpensively available. (That they will not be available indefinitely is a reason to know and begin to use the alternatives.) Another example is Logsdon's east-Ohio centric vision of farming and gardening. When he approves without reservation most things that raise the pH of the soil, it is fairly clear that he has usually gardened and farmed an acid soil. Gardeners in central Indiana will want to approach with caution any soil emendation that raises a pH that is probably already too high for optimum plant growth. But these are really quibbles with a great literary romp through what every gardener should know about the ground under his feet."

talk about luck.. I went to the library today and picked up this book.. Looks like I made a good choice.

this is actually my second Logsdon book. Certainly liked the first (all flesh is grass). Actually it is that one that got me to thinking about what I need to learn to build good soil...to have good pasture. and here I am

[Windy in Kansas]

As others have said, knowing what you soil is comprised of is the best place to start.

Take a soil sample and put some in a glass or plastic jar and add water. Shake it vigorously in order to suspend as much of the sample in the water as possible. Then let it settle undisturbed. You will be able to see the the distinct layers of your soil and can build from there.

[pcwerk]

try richsoil.com (or org?)
its mostly about permaculture and organic gardening
but a lot of "soil talk" ;-)
pc

[Daddyof4]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Well, if you ever have a specific question regarding soil chemistry, biology or physics, I will be glad to attempt to answer it....or if you have a difficult time using the web soil survey. I have to put my MS degree in Soil Science to some use, dontchaknow.

We live in red-clay land in Georgia. Our particular garden spot is very rich and a nice brown color. Thats because our back field was a cattle farm, goat farm, garden, and back and forth over the years. So it is rich and loamy yet still has the water retention qualities of clay. We compost religiously.

My question is about red clay. Aside from holding moisture better than loam, does the inherent iron content add anything to plants?

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by Daddyof4

My question is about red clay. Aside from holding moisture better than loam, does the inherent iron content add anything to plants?

Iron is a required nutrient to both plants and animals....so the answer to your question is "yes." However, a soil with a high pH can have sufficient iron but the iron is not available to the plant. Under high pH conditions, iron is relatively insoluble and plants, especially legumes, can yellow due to an iron deficiency (iron chlorosis).

[FourDeuce]

In addition to the online Soil Survey, you can also go to the local USDA Soil Conservation office and pick up a copy of your county's Soil Survey. There is a lot of hands-on information in there, along with soil-type maps and charts detailing the best(and worst) applications for each soil type. The map helps you identify exactly which soil types you have(and they're very detailed), and they draw the soil-type map over a satellite picture of the county.:banana02:

[airotciv]

Originally Posted by pcdreams

I am interested in learning about soils and soil building (fertility).. Looking for any good sites that explain the basics as well as things like the chemistry, biology, etc elements of soils.

To give you an idea I've started reading "hands-on agronomy" and while I enjoy the book and the theory makes sense, I don't have enough chem, biology, etc to make sense of a lot of it. Factor that in with not knowing soil type etc and I'm lost.

Thanks,

Don

Do you have a County Extension office/ Master Gardeners or a State Ag. person? If so they have so much information on your area. I Volunteered at the County Extension Office for 14 years. We had so much information, and it is free.