Gas+oil=diesel Fuel?

fantasymaker · #1 04/12/08, 01:10 AM

I once saw a story in an old book about trucking. Where in the early days when Diesel wasnt plentifull that truckers with Diesels would stop and buy gas and mix it with oil for fuel.
Anybody ever done this? Anybody know the formula?

blufford · #2 04/12/08, 05:26 AM

I heard they mixed oil with Kerosene.

Quiet Guy · #3 04/12/08, 05:52 AM

Kerosene, I wouldn't want to see the results if you tried gas!! Years ago, you had to run 25% kerosene in the winter time to keep diesel from jelling. In extreme cold some old timers would run straight kerosene. Don't know how it would work in these new diesel motors tho.

Darren · #4 04/12/08, 06:59 AM

A trucker who worked for a friend was adding gasoline to the tank on his diesel truck to get more power. When they found out what the driver had been doing it was already too late. The turbo rotor vanes were melted to the point they were nubs. The heads were fused to the block. I don't recall the other damage but it was extensive.

Small diesels in the pickups have self lubricated injection pump. That means they rely on the diesel fuel itself for lubrication. Gasoline not being an oil has no lubrication properties. That's why gasoline leaking down the cylinder walls of a gas motor will eventually destroy it. The injection pump on a diesel engine would probably be the first component that would die if you added gasoline to the tank. That's easily over a $1,000, probably closer to $2,000 to replace.

When you get into the cold parts of the year the diesel is a winter blend to prevent gelling. That's why when it starts getting cold you don't want to buy diesel from a place that doesn't get frequent deliveries. You could end up with "summer" diesel which is straight #2 and have your fuel gel when the temperature drops.

Up North Louie · #5 04/12/08, 07:12 AM

This is something of a departure from the OP, but there was once a tractor fuel that resembles what is described.

It would work not well at all. Different manifolds, injectors, compression,....

You would be setting yourself up for an untimely major overhaul. Those tractors were set up to burn very crude fuel. Most started on gasoline and were switched over to the distillate once they were warmed up, and back to gas to "clean up" before they were shut down. You see them for sale occasionally, and if they're in good shape, they command a high price. Mixing the fuel for them seems to involve a blend of diesel, kerosene and a few other ingredients they don't mention. Now, they may be cultivating this "Black Art" image. I don't know.

What I do know is the stuff they burned isn't commercially refined anymore. There's a long list of what it ain't, and not much of a list of what it is. There's no economic advantage to it, at least now, as all petro inputs are priced outrageously.

I would enjoy reading a post from people who actually remember using the stuff. The heyday of these tractors was during the Second World War, when gas and diesel were needed for the war effort. They somehow managed to use the dregs to run tractors, and I think we need a revival of that sort of ingenuity. Our family didn't farm with tractors at that time, so there's no memory of it among my elders.

Don

fantasymaker · #6 04/12/08, 07:40 AM

Nope not kerosene ,its not about keeping the fuel from gelling,it was about creating diesel from gas when gas was the abundant fuel and diesel was rare,
Im surre gas would lack the lubricosity that diesel engines need,and I suppose oil would slow the too fast flame propagation of gas for a diesel.

big rockpile · #7 04/12/08, 09:17 AM

Use to be some would put Gas in to keep it from jelling.But it is a Big No No.

big rockpile

stranger · #8 04/12/08, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

I once saw a story in an old book about trucking. Where in the early days when Diesel wasnt plentifull that truckers with Diesels would stop and buy gas and mix it with oil for fuel.
Anybody ever done this? Anybody know the formula?

when i was delivering south and it got cold, i would
put five gal in each 80 gal tank to keep the fuel from gelling, in the north we could buy kerosene to mix it.. about putting very much gas in a diesel, you would blow it up, just from the fumes of the gas in the eng. also to much gas in a diesel would burn up the rings and pistons as they get lubrication fron the fuel., gas dry things out. put diesel in a gas end and just won't run.

stranger · #9 04/12/08, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

I once saw a story in an old book about trucking. Where in the early days when Diesel wasnt plentifull that truckers with Diesels would stop and buy gas and mix it with oil for fuel.
Anybody ever done this? Anybody know the formula?

I would think you may be able to thin used moter oil down with a little gas and let it set til the fumes died out, strain it to get any lumps out and burn it in a old diesel from the 40-50-60s, probably not muck later.

Ed Norman · #10 04/12/08, 10:11 AM

I've seen a gas-diesel tractor around here, he said someone tried to buy it for a bunch of money but he kept it.

A rancher got a new diesel pickup, his wife went to town to pick it up. She stopped to fill it up and it ran rough so she went to the local oil change shop a few blocks away. By the time she got there, the engine melted. She didn't know it was a diesel. And then Ford claimed the warranty was voided for some reason.

ErinP · #11 04/12/08, 10:42 AM

oh wow...
And a Powerstroke isn't exactly the cheap engine option, either...

Organic Cowgirl · #12 04/12/08, 06:27 PM

Definitely not gas, as has been said. But, you can run it on dirtied-up jet fuel, for sure. 4 oz of motor oil added to the fuel tank per 10 gallons of jet fuel. Runs like a charm, even on snazzy new diesel engines. The fuel trucks (regular on-road diesel trucks) at the airport run it, as do some pilots with access to waste jet fuel for free. As the owner of several diesels (Jetta, F-250, tractor) I can say for sure that it works great in all three.

Of course, you wouldn't run it on the road like that, since you wouldn't have paid your road tax. :baby04:

blufford · #13 04/12/08, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organic Cowgirl

Definitely not gas, as has been said. But, you can run it on dirtied-up jet fuel, for sure. 4 oz of motor oil added to the fuel tank per 10 gallons of jet fuel. Runs like a charm, even on snazzy new diesel engines. The fuel trucks (regular on-road diesel trucks) at the airport run it, as do some pilots with access to waste jet fuel for free. As the owner of several diesels (Jetta, F-250, tractor) I can say for sure that it works great in all three.

Of course, you wouldn't run it on the road like that, since you wouldn't have paid your road tax. :baby04:

Thanks Organic Cowgirl, You learn somethink new everyday.

From Wikipedia

The first jet fuels were based on kerosene or a gasoline-kerosene mix, and most jet fuels are still kerosene-based.

Piston engine use
Jet fuel is very similar to diesel fuel, and a few aircraft engine manufacturers, most notably Thielert, have begun offering piston engines which run on jet fuel. The technology promises to be a way to provide light, powerful, and environmentally-friendly engines for the general aviation market while simplifying airport logistics and phasing out leaded avgas.[citation needed]

Jet fuel is often used in ground support vehicles at airports, instead of diesel. The United States military makes heavy use of JP-8, for instance. However, jet fuel tends to have poor lubricating ability in comparison to diesel, thereby increasing wear on fuel pumps and other related engine parts. Civilian vehicles tend to disallow its use, or require that an additive be mixed with the jet fuel in order to restore its lubricity.

Organic Cowgirl · #14 04/12/08, 07:47 PM

Thanks, blufford! DH (another pilot and diesel geek) is home now, so I just ran this thread by him. He has some more additions:

Let's see, it works with several other things, too...kerosene dirtied with oil, veggie oil (used or even new), transmission fluid, used motor oil (filtered well). These can be burned as 100% concentrations, or mixed together in any degree.

You CAN use gasoline, but it needs to be less than 50% of the volume when mixed with a heavy oil like motor oil, trans oil, used vegetable oil. (Filter the fry pieces out first.

) Do NOT mix it with diesel fuel as the diesel is not thick enough to provide 'dirt' to appropriately modify the cetane/octane rating of the gas.

**Ross** · #15 04/12/08, 09:21 PM

I put gasoline in my Belarus diesel once must have been 70% diesel and 30% gasoline. Ran about 20 hp less growled and burned oil. We added 10w30 to the fuel and topped up with diesel and eventually it pulled back to full hp. Ran fine after that (10+ years) and ran fine when I sold it.

Jackpine Savage · #16 04/13/08, 08:44 AM

Someone (wasn't me and I'm not saying who) tried 100% gasoline in my Powerstroke. I'm told it didn't run very well at all and barely had enough power to get off the road. We towed it to the local dealer and they drained the tank and replaced the fuel filter, no damage done. He said once in awhile it will damage the injectors. He said it happens quite often and they had just had a rash of them when the local BP station put green handles on all the pumps.

Here is one guy that adds unleaded to his sunflower oil and claims it works better than #2:

http://www.oilcrusher.5u.com/

fantasymaker · #17 04/13/08, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackpine Savage

He said it happens quite often and they had just had a rash of them when the local BP station put green handles on all the pumps.

Here is one guy that adds unleaded to his sunflower oil and claims it works better than #2:

http://www.oilcrusher.5u.com/

WHY DO THEY DO THAT? Thats why Im asking the question!
Neat website BTW.

Jackpine Savage · #18 04/13/08, 09:40 AM

From the oilcrusher website: " I'm just using unleaded gas to thin the sunflower oil to match the thickness of #2 diesel so the injectors can do a good job of fogging it into the engine."

I'm just starting to research this stuff. Hoping to get an oil press this year.