Septic Questions

[tnokie]

We have a four year old home. We have already had to have the septic pumped out once and now are going to have to do it again. They say our system has died(the bacteria)It was started when new and restarted when pumped out before. Why isn't it taking hold? we have added the over the counter mixes as well. We don't use any thing other than laundry soaps,and deterrgents,etc, There are only two of us living here.(but we are clean and do a lot of laundry!lol. ) Could it be the municipal water,which has a lot of chlorine and stuff in it?The system was put in by licensed plumbers and checked by the proper authorites.

[watcher]

I worked for a plumber for a while and he told me septic system needs a balance of water and 'waste'. If you put in too much of one it adversely affects bacteria needed to break down the waste. It sounds to me like you are putting so much water that the bacteria level doesn't get high enough to break down the 'waste'.

Two suggestions. You can cut the amount of water you use per load of laundry by about half. When the washer reaches the end of the rinse cycle put the drain hose into a large clean container. Then use that water to fill the washer for the next wash cycle.

Or drain your washer on to the yard. If you do this put an old stocking on the end of the drain to catch the lint.

[Ken Scharabok]

Sounds to me like your problem may be with the laundry usage also. A lot of bleach and soap may be either killing or deterring bacteria.

Depending on pumping cost, vs number of loads of washing between pump-outs, it may be cost effective for you to do your washing in a laundromat, then dry at home.

Or learn to wear your laundry longer between washings.

[Cabin Fever]

I need more information. How was it determined that your septic tank needed pumping? What kind of problems were you having? Typically, a septic tank wouldn't need to pumped twice in two years for just two people. Normal use of laundry detergents, bleach and chlorinated water should not "kill" your system.

[watcher]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

I need more information. How was it determined that your septic tank needed pumping? What kind of problems were you having? Typically, a septic tank wouldn't need to pumped twice in two years for just two people. Normal use of laundry detergents, bleach and chlorinated water should not "kill" your system.

True but the orig poster implies there is more than a "normal use of laundry. . .".

Originally Posted by tnokie

but we are clean and do a lot of laundry!lol

A large volume of water would dilute the mixture to the point that the system would not work correctly as well as all that bacteria free water would flush out the system means that the solids wouldn't get broke down.

One other BIG thing. I have just found out how bad laundry lint from the washer is for a septic system. Especially if a lot of your laundry is made of non-nature fibers. This lint doesn't break down and its so small it stays suspended in the liquid therefore flows into the leach field. I was suspicious until I put a stocking on the end of my washer's drain hose for one load. The results were enough that even though 95+% of our clothing is cotton I will be spend about $150 to put a filter on my washer's drain in the next few months.

One other thing the septic guy told me causes problems are tampons. Do what you will with that piece of info.

[Cabin Fever]

The amount of solids in the septic tank should remain the same regardless of the amount of water going through the system. For every gallon of water entering the septic tank , a gallon of water flows out of the tank. So, really, the solids in the bottom of the tank....where the majority of the bacteria live...are not being diluted or "flushed out."

You are right about the fibers in wastewater. Most of these fivers remain suspended and can flow right through the septic tank and into the drainfield where they can eventually clog the soil. Most new systems are now fitted with an "effluent filter" in the septic tank's outlet baffle to capture fibers and other suspened solids. These filters must be cleaned regularly.

I missed the point about doing "alot" of laundry. I wonder what the definition is of "alot?" Even for two people, it's hard to believe that they do more laundry than a family of four....which still wouldn't be enough of a concern to "kill" the bacteria in the septic tank.

[Ken Scharabok]

A good rule of thumb is nothing should go into a septic tank which hasn't passed through a human body.

Toilet paper (apparently depending on brand) can be OK or cause a build-up. (TEST: Take about a pint glass jar. Fill about 2/3rds with water. Put in perhaps 6-8 sheets of TP. Shake for several seconds and let settle. If the TP is in small pieces, it is OK. If it remains in a clot, then consider switching to another brand. And, some people/families use a LOT of TP.) But then, some don't even flush down TP. They keep a small hamper next to the commode and put the soiled TP in it. Then it goes into the regular household garbage bag.

Garbage disposals can be OK or bad, depending on usage. Putting things down them like coffee grounds, chicken bones, egg shells and citrus peels are almost a guarantee of a 1/1 addition to the sludge. If you have vegetable peeling or such, consider starting a small compost pile or worm bin. (Personally I throw meat scraps, bones and vegetable peelings out my back door onto the lawn. The scraps and bones are normally gone the next morning. Peelings, etc. disappear with a day or two as the earthworms and such work on them.

Sanitary napkins, Kotexs, facial tissue, cigarette filters and condums merely add to the sludge probably very close to a 1/1 basis.

While at one time it was recommended you flush outdated medications down the commode, it is now recommended you don't as they can contribute to fresh water pollution. Perhaps put them (without bottle) into your household garbage.

If you dump mop bucket water down the commode or bathtub, the dirt in it is a 1/1 addition to your sludge.

Don't use your septic tank as a garbage can.

I live in a mobile home. I drilled a hole next to my washing machine and installed a 2" PVC pipe. Discharge goes directly onto ground under unit. Every so often I'll put the discharge through the original pipe (to septic tank) as it might help keep it flushed out.

Even if you are on a muncipal waste disposal system you are merely passing your garbage downstream for them to deal with. Landfills are better equipped to deal with it more economically.

[jlxian]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

I missed the point about doing "alot" of laundry. I wonder what the definition is of "alot?" Even for two people, it's hard to believe that they do more laundry than a family of four....which still wouldn't be enough of a concern to "kill" the bacteria in the septic tank.

We do most of our laundry on weekends (because of work schedules) and I'm sure this is not great for the septic drain field. We are a family of 4. We have noticed on especially heavy use water days that there tends to be a puddle that collects over the tile field. This is a fairly new tile field --- about 3 years. DH thinks he can just put more dirt over the drain field --- any thoughts on this?

My grandmother was hell on not putting anything "foreign" down into the septic tank. No toilet paper, no dirty water (like from muddy hands or veggies), etc. She made all us grandkids wash our hands and feet at the cistern pump and dump the water on the ground. And tp was burned.

[stranger]

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

Sounds to me like your problem may be with the laundry usage also. A lot of bleach and soap may be either killing or deterring bacteria.

Depending on pumping cost, vs number of loads of washing between pump-outs, it may be cost effective for you to do your washing in a laundromat, then dry at home.

Or learn to wear your laundry longer between washings.

this also sound like your problem to me, the bleach will kill any bacteria from working.

[Cabin Fever]

jlxian, families on septic systems must "learn" that they are no longer on a city sewer system. There are changes that country families must make in order not abuse their septic systems. We must learn to use septic-friendly toliet paper, put filters on our wash machines, not use garbage grinders, and try to keep our water use constant. Your grandma was a smart lady.

In your situation, my suggestion would be to "learn' to do single loads of laundry all week long....do not wait to do it all on the weekend. Normal use of bleach will not kill the bacteria in your system...but if you're using several quarts during a single weekend....this could do it.

[Ken Scharabok]

"We do most of our laundry on weekends (because of work schedules) and I'm sure this is not great for the septic drain field. We are a family of 4. We have noticed on especially heavy use water days that there tends to be a puddle that collects over the tile field. This is a fairly new tile field --- about 3 years. DH thinks he can just put more dirt over the drain field --- any thoughts on this?"

Yes, your septic leach/drain line has SERIOUS problems. If this was an old drain field I'd say likely either the ground under the lines is saturated and simply pressure is forcing the moisture upwards. With one that new I'd say either a perk test wasn't done or it wasn't taken properly. For example, the line may have been laid in a clay-type soil which simply doesn't allow for proper downward seepage.

Locally they don't even do on-site perk test anymore. Someone, somewhere, looks at a county-wide soil map and says yes or no. Problem with this is soil type can vary within just a matter of a very short distance. For example, your neighbor's lot is an overage of 3' higher than yours. A clay layer runs about 12" below your property. If the layer is flat, they may have 4' before the clay is hit.

There are solutions to such a problem, but none are particularly cheap. For example, having a backhoe dig out the existing lines, dig the ditch much deep, backfill with gravel up to the drain line level and then backfill - Spreading or hauling off excess dirt. It may require a separate tank be placed on the outflow in which essentially a sump pump is installed, which then pumps the liquid to a new drain field elsewhere on the property.

Rules on septic system installation and repair vary GREATLY from county to county and from state to state.

You can live with the problem (or perhaps develop a grey water solution) or take action to verify what is causing the problem and then correcting it.

[jlxian]

Cabin Fever and Ken --- Thanks for the ideas. Yes, we have a clay-ish soil, and we have a fairly high water table. I *THINK* that when the new tile field was laid down the contractor dug deeper ditches and used gravel. The system that existed before was basically just a pipe that ran straight out about 30' from the septic tank. We never knew until we'd lived in the house for several years (and had 2 kids). So, the new gravel filled ditches under the 3 new lateral lines of the field are a big improvement over what we had.

I must make a concerted effort to not concentrate our water usage on the weekends. And maybe we can set up a gray water system for the laundry water. I do not have a garbage disposal, but do have a dishwasher. And we have 2 15 year olds who think long showers are a basic right. (I'm seriously considering installing a timer on the bathroom light.)

As far as bleach goes --- I use a detergent that contains bleach --- an all fabric bleach. Should I change? I rarely use regular chlorine bleach.

[Ken Scharabok]

"I must make a concerted effort to not concentrate our water usage on the weekends. And maybe we can set up a gray water system for the laundry water. I do not have a garbage disposal, but do have a dishwasher. And we have 2 15 year olds who think long showers are a basic right. (I'm seriously considering installing a timer on the bathroom light.)"

See if your water heater has an on/off valve (not switch, valve). When you think they have been in the shower long enough just close off the hot water outflow. They will quickly end their shower. However, be advised if they figure it out, likely they will do it to you also.

[watcher]

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

"I must make a concerted effort to not concentrate our water usage on the weekends. And maybe we can set up a gray water system for the laundry water. I do not have a garbage disposal, but do have a dishwasher. And we have 2 15 year olds who think long showers are a basic right. (I'm seriously considering installing a timer on the bathroom light.)"

See if your water heater has an on/off valve (not switch, valve). When you think they have been in the shower long enough just close off the hot water outflow. They will quickly end their shower. However, be advised if they figure it out, likely they will do it to you also.

I thought I was the only one who enforced shower time limits with a shut off valve on the hot water tank. It works VERY well.

[jlxian]

Ken S and Watcher--- I may have to shut off the water at the heater tank, too. Not a bad idea. I doubt they would do it to us as it would require a trip to the basement which is not a pleasant place.