Making money on woodland

[sweetmusicj]

I thinking of purchasing 50 acres of woodland from my grandpa who bought it for logging purpuses (he owns a sawmill).

So, the timber value isn't going to be too high since my grandpa has been logging it off and on for the past 50 years. I want to buy it and eventually get a house on the property when I can afford that.

I know there are some nice Maples on the property for Maple Syrup.

The property is located in Southeast Minnesota.

Any other ideas on how I could make some money off of this property until I can build my house there (or after for that matter).

So far I've come up with the following:

1.) Maple Syrup
2.) Paintball? (a lot of work, liability issues, and lots of headache)
3.) Hunting Lease (don't know how much they go for)
4.) Little cabin rented out for some peace and quiet to city folk (under an hour drive from the cities but VERY peaceful). Don't know how legal it would be if I didn't go through any permit process.

Sorry if this has been discussed before. Any info would be appreciated.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Honest injun, don't plan on making money from your corner of heaven.

Been there, done that, got the collection of T-shirts.

If you rent it out for vacation or hunting or paintball, you need liability insurance, and you'll have to be supervising/checking on it/cleaning up.

[sweetmusicj]

Originally Posted by Rose

Honest injun, don't plan on making money from your corner of heaven.

Been there, done that, got the collection of T-shirts.

If you rent it out for vacation or hunting or paintball, you need liability insurance, and you'll have to be supervising/checking on it/cleaning up.

Ok, thanks for the advice. Just seems like a waste until I move there and make it my own.

I hope I can work something out with my Grandpa and purchase it anyways.

[HiddenHollows]

Contact your county extension agency for information on various agroforestry programs. We currently grow and harvest mushrooms from our forests.

[sweetmusicj]

Originally Posted by HiddenHollows

Contact your county extension agency for information on various agroforestry programs. We currently grow and harvest mushrooms from our forests.

Wow, that's a great idea.

Will do if the land purchase goes though.

Thanks,

Nathan

[Terri]

Firewood goes for $75 a cord in Kansas, but the customers will expect hardwood.

[Randy Rooster]

Check with your local county or state and make sure it is reistered under forestry use for tax purposes. Here in my state it really pays to do it if you own over 20 acres. I just added my front 4 acres onto my larger tract and the tax value on the 4 acres dropped from $80,000 to $15,000. Filling out that one form will save me a bundle of money over the next 20 to 30 years.

[Bonnie L]

Originally Posted by Randy Rooster

Check with your local county or state and make sure it is registered under forestry use for tax purposes. Here in my state it really pays to do it if you own over 20 acres.

Same here. Saves us a lot on taxes. We did our first logging last summer & got $1000 just for the trees in a small area - only 2 truck loads. We plan on doing it again in a few years - after the areas we logged heal a bit.

[mtman]

Originally Posted by Bonnie L

Same here. Saves us a lot on taxes. We did our first logging last summer & got $1000 just for the trees in a small area - only 2 truck loads. We plan on doing it again in a few years - after the areas we logged heal a bit.

tops laying around and a mess for 2 semi full of logs id rather have the trees

[clovis]

My cousin is in the hunt lease business.

yourhuntlease.com

He says that land owners can recieve $8-$30 per acre. His outfit provides liabilty insurance that is included in the $8-$30 acre price, if I am not mistaken.

I don't know a thing about it myself, and have no affiliation with his business whatsoever.

Might help take the sting off of the property taxes.

Clove

[Bonnie L]

Our logger was really good about clean up - just piles - no stuff all over the place. We went with logging because we had to clear these areas anyway. My dh didn't have time to do it, so logging worked out best for us.

[Hoop]

Think twice before beating those spiles into your sugar maple trees. They destroy any potential future sawlog usage of the tree. IMHO, maple syrup is something best purchased, rather than undergoing the painstaking process yourself. There was a time when it made economic sense to harvest maple syrup. I believe those days are behind us.
And lets face it.....how many pancakes/french toast does your family plan on eating this next year?
Paintball. Pretty good liability issues at stake here. Paintballers tend to be young (and irresponsible).
Hunting lease. Again, pretty good liability at stake here. A friend of mine leases out his 40 acre parcel for $2500 for the 9 day Wisconsin rifle deer hunt. His lawyer told him no matter what is written.......if a bad accident happens......he is at risk of economic peril. He is rolling the dice, hoping nothing bad happens.
Renting out a little cabin? The first thing I can think of is zoning. Renting out a cabin is a commercial enterprise.
More importantly is the changing face of america. Yes, there are a few people that want to stay in a rustic cabin. These same people expect to pay next to nothing for the experience. Of course, they'll expect the cabin to have a jacuzzi, central air, and internet access. At tent camping rates. A possibility, but I realistically doubt it will stir up much interest, unless you're in a very desirable location.

Should you purchase the land? You bet. If you pass it up, you'll forever kick yourself. I suspect your grandfather will make every attempt to grant you favorable sale terms.

And it may surprise you how much marketable timber remains on the land. I'm guessing your grandfather took a long view on the timber land.

There are many other possibilities for some revenue from the land. Firewood generally is in demand.
Balsam boughs/princess pine for wreaths may be present on the property.
Gingseng may be on the property.
You won't get rich on any of these things, but they will provide SOME revenue.
Don't rule out the possibility of gravel existing on the property. It isn't unheard of for gravel pits to generate revenue in excess of twice the property value. Of course, its getting more difficult to "open up" a gravel pit, as neighbors generally dislike the noise made by heavy equipment.

The real value of the land will likely come from its appreciation in value. My father purchased a wooded 40 acre parcel in 1953 for $500. It sold a few years back for $70,000.

[sweetmusicj]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Think twice before beating those spiles into your sugar maple trees. They destroy any potential future sawlog usage of the tree.

My uncle, who now owns the sawmill, just told me about some logs he sawed up that had been tapped for a long time. Black streaks all over the log.

That's quite a lot for that hunting lease, but yeah, liability.

As far as the cabin idea goes...well, I was thinking of something I read about called a Poustinia (spelling may be off because it's a Russian word), basically, it's a one room cabin, bunk, fireplace, Bible and it's a place of spiritual retreat (started by Orthodox), and in the middle of the woods is ideal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poustinia
Don't know if I could or would even want to charge money for someone trying to find some peace, but if the zoning, or liability wasn't such an issue, it'd be something to think about.

I definately want to buy it. I'll see how much he wants for it, he may want too much, we'll see what happens. He has acrage all over the county, but we're beginning to think he has saved it all up for retirement instead of a nice present to his grandkids!

I'm in the city now, and slowly dying inside everyday, lol (grew up in the country).

[blufford]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Think twice before beating those spiles into your sugar maple trees. They destroy any potential future sawlog usage of the tree. .

I didn't think you would drive them (spiles) in far enough to ruin the wood.

[sugarbush]

Logging it is the only way to make real money on wood land. Hunting lease insurance is cheap, but you will not make alot off of the lease, there is too much land available in that part of the country.

[Bonnie L]

Originally Posted by sweetmusicj

As far as the cabin idea goes...well, I was thinking of something I read about called a Poustinia (spelling may be off because it's a Russian word), basically, it's a one room cabin, bunk, fireplace, Bible and it's a place of spiritual retreat (started by Orthodox), and in the middle of the woods is ideal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poustinia

If you haven't read Catherine Doherty's book, Poustinia, you should. It's a spiritual classic.

I've thought of doing that, too, but 'under the radar'. No advertising, donation only.

[sweetmusicj]

Originally Posted by Bonnie L

If you haven't read Catherine Doherty's book, Poustinia, you should. It's a spiritual classic.

I've thought of doing that, too, but 'under the radar'. No advertising, donation only.

Yeah, great book. I would do word of mouth advertising I think, and do a suggested donation to "keep the place running".

[TNHermit]

How about christmas trees??

[Darren]

The tip on agroforestry is worth investigating. The USDA used to put out a bulletin on agroforestry. They also published a soft cover book on unusual ways to earn money from woodlands.

Lumber harvests (hardwood) usually are every 80 years or so. Most folks don't understand that once a logger hits a location, it can be a long time before any "big" money can be made. Usually the trees that are left in this neck of the woods aren't worth anything. Once you have a lot of cleared areas the trees that repopulate are often the species the logger didn't want. Oak isn't regenerating well here. Once it's cut, it may be gone.

The big mast trees that get cut are the ones that will keep your woodland going. It's almost a catch 22. The key is to balance what is removed with what is left. A logger will maximize the take. That isn't to a landowner's family's long term interest. A lot of logging companies know they'll never deal with you again in your lifetime.

Log moss is something you can collect, dry and sell. Around here the folks that buy ginseng, yellow root, furs and scrap often buy bales of log moss.

WV has an herb association. If MN has one you might want to check it out. The members may have some info on alternative crops. A group of people can often collectively grow something in large enough quantites that will interest a buyer where one person might be out of luck.

[sugarbush]

If done right a hardwood re-cut can be as little as 10 years. I am starting 95 acres of white oak in June, it was selectively harvested in 1988 and is ready again.

You might buy your grandfather's sawmill too, if that is how he used the land he probably knows how best to make money off of it.