coronary at the kero pump

MELOC · #1 03/15/08, 09:55 AM

i nearly dropped over yesterday at the kerosene pump. so i am getting my two 5 gallon jugs ready to fill and joking with a friend i saw there about how i am ready to kick old man winter's butt when i looked up at the pump and nearly had a heart attack. kero had jumped up 30 cents since last week. the $3.29 per gallon i paid last week was up from $3.25 two weeks before and was now $3.699. it has been inching up for a while, but at one time kero had pretty stable prices. i asked if the price was a mistake and the manager said it was raised 3 times in one day. i decided to stop at $15 instead of 10 gallons. i was going to stop buying kero at $3.29...but now i am done for sure. it is now most likely a better choice to heat with electric...for the time being anyhow. sure, i heat with firewood too, but i still need supplimental heat overnight.

i would feel so bad about this, but i just replaced the wick in my heater for the third time this year. actually, i bought a new one in the fall and within a couple weeks the wick was shot. it was too dirty to wick kerosene. i actually returned the heater thinking it was a problem with the wick adjustment. a few weeks later the replacement heater had the same issue. i had to replace that wick twice now for a total of 4 wicks in 2 heaters this winter. i have used kerosene heaters for a very long time. i have had wicks last for years...not just months...or weeks even. i don't know if it is an issue with the dyna-glo rmc 95-c6 heater, or with the wicks or, most likely, the fuel itself. i know that lowe's was sold out of wicks and my local "do it best" hardware store had one wick left on the shelf for that model heater. they said they cannot keep them in stock. is it possible that the oil companies are selling us a junk "blend"? i remember hearing about soybean/veggie oil being mixed with fuel oil last year. do you think they are doing something that stupid with kerosene?

WayneR · #2 03/15/08, 11:12 AM

There may be water or dye mixed in the K-1. Either of these will "shorten" wick life. There is a material in toothpaste tube form that will indicate the presence of water. Spread on a clean stick and inserted into the container (tank). Color change demonstrates the presence and depth (in case of fuel oil) of water. Have seen it used but have NOT been able to purchase any.
It almost seems to be a secret that the fuel dealers are unwilling to share, for obvious reasons!! If anyone knows of a source for this material, please advise.

Approx $3.45 gal here

Nevada · #3 03/15/08, 11:14 AM

I've been paying $4.069 for 1-K kero all winter.

edcopp · #4 03/15/08, 12:19 PM

I replaced K-1 with a knit cap, heavy socks, sweat pants, and a sweat shirt a long time ago. Also I do have a sleeping bag on stand by

tamsam · #5 03/15/08, 12:54 PM

At present we use a 20,000 btu propane space heater that is a lot cheaper to run than kero. So far this year we have used 1 100 pound tank and a 20 pound tank. We only use it at night when the wood heater burns down or we are away. We do have 2 kero heaters and have lit one of the once this winter. We use mostly wood and on real cold days coal as it burns a lot hotter than wood. Good luck with your heat. Sam

simplyflow · #6 03/15/08, 03:28 PM

oops!

Nevada · #7 03/15/08, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamsam

At present we use a 20,000 btu propane space heater that is a lot cheaper to run than kero.

Actually, the first half of the winter we used a 23,000 btu/hour kerosene furnace, but I hooked-up a new 20,000 btu/hour propane furnace a few months back. We keep the kerosene furnace as a back up, and still use it on cold evenings for short periods just sit near (kind of a modern-day pot belly stove).

Propane offers some nice advantages though. The propane furnace has a thermostat, where the kerosene furnace is manual. I used to get up several times each night to adjust the furnace. I was a human thermostat, so to speak.

I don't think propane is cheaper than kerosene though. Kerosene has a heating value of 134,000 btu/gallon, where propane only has a heating value of 92,000 btu/gallon. That means that kerosene makes 134/92 = 1.46 times as much heat as propane, on a gallon for gallon comparison.

While a gallon of propane costs less than a gallon kerosene, you have to adjust the price for the difference in heating values. Even with kerosene at $4.07/gallon (what I pay), you would need to find propane at $4.07/1.46 = $2.79 per gallon to pay the same price per btu as kerosene. I don't know what you're paying for propane, but around here we can't find it for less than $3.25/gallon.

Therefore, with kerosene at $3.70/gallon (as in the original post), you would need to find propane at $2.53/gallon just for propane to cost the same as kerosene, on a btu per btu basis.

I think you'll find that the economics of kerosene are very good compared to propane, despite its seemingly high price.

MELOC · #8 03/15/08, 04:27 PM

how do burning efficiencies come into play in the values of BTU per fuel source? how efficient is a wick type kerosene heater vs. a propane heater?

HopeFarms · #9 03/15/08, 06:31 PM

I felt the same way when I put $30 worth of diesel at $3.79/gal into our '82 dually. If we keep our foot out of it, we can get 17 mpg.

We heat only with wood. Hubby gets up probably twice in the night to load the stove. And our 2 1/2 yr old sleeps w/us to stay warm. (can't get his room warm enough!) but then, our temps are between 20* F and 35* at night. It's getting warmer and I'm grateful for the change of season.

If we had to buy fuel for heat, we wouldn't eat.

Nevada · #10 03/15/08, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

how do burning efficiencies come into play in the values of BTU per fuel source? how efficient is a wick type kerosene heater vs. a propane heater?

I suspect that burning efficiencies are not significant, but heating fuel may be. When propane is outside during subzero weather I'm sure it consumes heat energy to warm it up in the furnace.

MELOC · #11 03/15/08, 06:59 PM

what i am asking is what is the realized BTU value of the fuel considering the different efficiencies per fuel set against the cost of each? for example, if you have a fuel that supplies 100,000 BTU per unit, but the device only burns at 80% efficiency, then you only get 80,000 BTU per unit. if another fuel is 90,000 BTU per unit, and it burns at 90% efficiency, then you get 81,000 BTU per unit. so if you look at your numbers, if propane is more efficient than kerosene, maybe the numbers are closer than they look. i am just saying that folks often forget that it's not what you got but how you use it, lol.

tamsam · #12 03/15/08, 07:37 PM

I don't know how to figure that but I do know how to add up what it costs us. When the kero heater will burn 1 1/2 gals of kero in 12 hours that can add up to quite a bit of change. At 3.25 a gal that is about 4.00 a night or 28 dollars a week if you burn it every night as we do the propane heater and it has a thermostat on it. Also it is hard to try to regulate the heat with type of kero heater we are talking about. We light the propane, set the thermostat, and go to bed and if we wake up to throw more wood or coal in the heater we do. Right now we are going on week 3 of a 20 lb tank which cost 19 dollars to exchange at the handy store or less at the gas company. So for us it is cheaper and more convenent to use the propane, Sam

Nevada · #13 03/15/08, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

what i am asking is what is the realized BTU value of the fuel considering the different efficiencies per fuel set against the cost of each? for example, if you have a fuel that supplies 100,000 BTU per unit, but the device only burns at 80% efficiency, then you only get 80,000 BTU per unit. if another fuel is 90,000 BTU per unit, and it burns at 90% efficiency, then you get 81,000 BTU per unit. so if you look at your numbers, if propane is more efficient than kerosene, maybe the numbers are closer than they look. i am just saying that folks often forget that it's not what you got but how you use it, lol.

While you do see significant differences in furnace efficiencies, those are due more to furnace design than fuel types. Both of my furnaces are unvented, and both boast an efficiency of 99.9%. While propane is probably more efficient than kerosene, since kerosene gives off a slight odor, I suspect that 99.9% is still pretty close to what I get for both.

Helena · #14 03/16/08, 03:53 AM

At the pump here for the kerosene heater is...$4.19 a gallon !! For the house propane which we use for hot water and cooking when not using the cook stove which is being used a lot more lately is....$4.44 !! Spring where are you !!???

MELOC · #15 03/16/08, 10:37 AM

i think i will just fill my jug the rest of the way and save it for emergencies.

michiganfarmer · #16 03/17/08, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

i nearly dropped over yesterday at the kerosene pump. so i am getting my two 5 gallon jugs ready to fill and joking with a friend i saw there about how i am ready to kick old man winter's butt when i looked up at the pump and nearly had a heart attack. kero had jumped up 30 cents since last week. the $3.29 per gallon i paid last week was up from $3.25 two weeks before and was now $3.699.

I own a diesel pick up, and a diesel tractor. Diesel is $4.20 a gallon here.

Mabey I should buy some karosene instead

MELOC · #17 03/17/08, 09:24 AM

you won't get the output from it you would from diesel.

Nevada · #18 03/17/08, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamsam

Right now we are going on week 3 of a 20 lb tank which cost 19 dollars to exchange at the handy store or less at the gas company.

You're only using 20 lb in 3 weeks? I'm going through a 100 lb tank in that amount of time, but I don't augment with wood heat.

Still, I'm having some trouble understanding how you burn 1 1/2 gallons of kerosene to do the same job as a quart of propane does. There's something not right about the metrics.