Rationing...

[seedspreader]

I USED to believe that one portion of freedom meant we can consume what we want, when we want, how we want. That as long as we could buy/make/sell what we desired we were free.

Now there is still some truth to that as being a portion of freedom, but with freedom and the "American Way", should come sacrifice. It always has in the past... why don't we have to sacrifice anything now?

Now don't panic, I haven't become a socialist, but, at times in our history, we've got together and said that some threat, ideology, or army was dangerous enough that we were going to forgo a free market and ration items.

It wasn't all that long ago ("oil crisis" gas rationing and WWII rations) that we rationed in the U.S.

from Wikipedia;

To get a classification and rationing stamps, one had to appear before a local board to certify a need for gas and ownership of no more than five tires. All tires in excess of five per driver were confiscated by the government, because of rubber shortages. An A card was the lowest priority of gas rationing and entitled the holder to 3 to 4 gallons of gas per week. B cards were issued to workers in the military industry, entitling their holder up to 8 gallons of gas per week. C cards were granted to persons deemed very essential to the war effort, such as doctors. T rations were made available for truckers. Lastly, X cards entitled the holder to unlimited supplies and were the highest priority in the system. Ministers of Religion, police, volunteer firemen, and civil defense workers fell within this category. A scandal erupted when 200 Congressmen received these cards.

I haven't read the history of any laws passed that allowed the government to take this ability, maybe someone has some input on that?

Also, is there anything that we should be rationing today? Do we have a risk that we agree is a common risk?

or

Is the government completely stepping outside of it's authority to ration items and we should always allow a free market?

You are welcome, of course, to state your opinion, but at least review historical rationing (hint: rationing during the founding of this nation) before you make any spurious claims.

What say ye? Does the government have the right to ration and is there anything we should think about rationing now?

[stonykill]

at a time of war, if the government needs to ration something.....to better fight and win the war, to keep our freedoms, I don't have a problem with it. Freedom isn't free. Sometimes you need to sacrifice to remain free. As we have in the past.

To me, the rolling blackouts in the west are rationing. Not government mandated, but its rationing.

[idahodave]

Water is rationed.

Look at how many sprinking bans with even/odd watering days are in effect.

If the SE drought doesn't end soon, rationing to each home may have to start.

[Beeman]

As Idahodave stated water is already rationed in some places as the water gets short, done for the good of the many. I'm sure gov't has the power to ration when it wants. Funny how it relates to us being at war, we're at war now and instead of rationing goods we're concerned with losing rights which needs another thread.
I don't think there is a reason for rationing gas as there is no shortage or a need somewhere else like for the military. There is plenty of gas/oil, it's just the steady increase in price that's the problem as it effects our economy.

[TNHermit]

We can't give up anything because our economy depends on greed and spending. Sacrifice like in WW2 makes it more personal and brings people together. All that went out in the 60's and the onslaught of liberalism and big government spending on both sides. No thanks to my generation

[Explorer]

Most, if not all, rationing has been government imposed by either local, regional or federal authorities. I can not think of any instance the people imposed rationing on themselves without some government function enforcing the rules. In law precedent counts and there is ample president for government rationing.

Without rationing those with the most resources will be able to purchase or obtain the most goods. Rationing is a government enforced equalizer.

[Pops2]

due to lower game populations, most bigg game out west is rationed & lotteried

[Forerunner]

Any individual or group of individuals who control the production or distribution of any commodity may ration that commodity at their whim.
No man can be forced to surrender his own allodial goods for the benefit of the masses without his consent. Governments are established, not by men with charitable and generous hearts willing to give to a needy neighbor, but by gluttonous leeches who want an arm stronger than their own to force their neighbor to support them, in good times and bad.
Ration the item if must need be, but rob no man of what is his own for the "common good", for, if the common good can force one mouthful from the table of a working man, then that good is gone.
As for water rationing, if I were pioneering in an area that became dry, I would move.

[Tricky Grama]

Since there is only so much water on the planet, I think we'll see (or maybe our g'kids will) rationing b/c too many are wasteful now.

I realize the earth is 3/4ths water but mostly thats sea water & we don't know how to extract it cheaply. Maybe its more of a 'control the population' thing...too many people won't conserve.

Patty

[EDDIE BUCK]

They have to figure a way to get us over a barrel, like making it illegal to drill a well or have a well on your property. Then if you want whatever, theres only one source and that source will need money and also need to see a mark or ID. Then you can have that drink of water,even though it will probably be a small drink, but enough to survive. Eddie

[RockyGlen]

I am totally against any type of government regulation where there does not NEED to be for survival....having said that, I think water rationing is for survival and is a good idea, but I do not care for the way they do it. Instead of saying no watering lawns or washing cars, I wish they would put a reasonable limit on each household, based on number of people living there, and anything over that amount you paid a lot more for. That way the people have the choice, but I think water usage would be cut way down.

I also would not mind gas rationing, as long as it was tied directly to cutting our dependence on foreign oil. I also realize that we use less than ten gallons a month in our car, so it is easy for me to say that, unless farm equipment would be under the rationing, also.

[FarmerGreen]

I think we have a form of free-market rationing going on right now. The military needs things and are bidding against the public for them. Supply and demand makes the price go up. Ammunition is just one example.
There are already Executive Orders on the books with the force of law (that congress never passed) that authorize the confiscation of just about everything we own with the stroke of the presidents pen. For the common good, of course.
I say if there is a water shortage, have a sliding scale price based on usage. So much per gallon per person, after that the price goes up substantially. Most people would voluntarily conserve.

[rambler]

Dad always pointed out the place where the pile of tires rotted away when the govt collected those tires during WWII. He had gotten a new car shortly before all that rationing, and so he ended up attening _many_ funerals & weddings, as he had good tires..... Rather funny, as he loved to drive on cords by the time I came along - rather tight with his money. Perhaps the rationing period had an effect on him.

Back then, a large percent of the population was homesteading in some fashion. Even in town you could find a cow or 2 on every block. People could tighten up & be self-sufficient.

In today's world, if the grociery store closes for 2 days, a lot of folks would go hungry. It would be much more difficult to enact such widespread rationing over a weekend.

--->Paul

[meanwhile]

I don't know about water and tires but just this week at our local grocery stores , they were rationing sugar. Each buyer could only buy two bags. This winter, our propane company warned everyone that if the supply went down, they would "ration". When I asked how they would decide, I was SHOCKED to learn they would consider HEAT the first line, EVEN GAS LOGS and cooking stoves would get second rate considerations. When I pointed out that many people could heat with wood, or electric but that those of us who cook with propane stoves would need to be able to cook, he said no, since he was the manager, he had decided that heat was first, hot water 2nd, then the cook stoves AND he said people who had big tanks would only get a little bit and people who had smaller tanks more..........

sorry to go on so long....the bottom line for me is that I am uncomfortable with someone like him making serious decisions like who gets propane or not. I know of several families who have the "gas logs" just for "show" and they do not rely on them for actual "heat" for the house. It seems ridiculous that they would get propane for "heat" and yet those who need the propane for cooking, would be 3rd down the list......

Yes, I have made my own plans to be sure I take care of my own self and am not a victim to his whims.......

[rambler]

Up here in MN, heat most certainly is the priority. You can eat cornflakes or wheaties for a few days, if my house freezes up I have many thousands of dollars of damage.

If you are saying folks don't need propane to heat, they can install a woodstove....

Well, you don't need porpane to cook, you can install a wood stove and cook on that!

Heat is a life-giver. Cooking food is important, but we have cold foods we can use in an emergency situation.

I think your popane man is right on.

--->Paul

[FarmerGreen]

How does the propane manager know how you use the propane?? I use it for heat, hot water, cooking, gas fireplace for looks and heat. Just bought a propane clothes dryer, but it's not hooked up yet. The propane company has never asked how I use it. They just come out and fill it up once a quarter and send me a bill.

[auctioneer]

Originally Posted by idahodave

Water is rationed.

Look at how many sprinking bans with even/odd watering days are in effect.

If the SE drought doesn't end soon, rationing to each home may have to start.

It has in High Point, NC according to the local news. So many gallons per month per household then a punitive rate kicks in. It may be just the beginning.

[pickapeppa]

WWII was the end of the depression era. They were coming off a low point, used to giving up and sacrificing. This generation would fight before giving up any personal comforts for the greater good, from the top down.

On the other hand, I think many people on the bottom would barely notice.

[Quint]

The rationing during WWII was of dubious merit and was corrupt to the core. My own family were all pretty much poor enough that it didn't particularly matter. They lived on the farm and grew pretty much everything they ate and they had plenty of "ration stamps" for what they didn't. However, it was common knowledge where to go to get black market items. It was more expensive but you could get anything you needed. People who were dealing made vast amounts of money. This was in a very rural area so I can only imagine how much was to be made in large cities.

When they had the much celebrated scrap drives and such the metal collected simply got tossed in the dump. My folks went there and picked out some used farm machinery that had been donated.

Like much of the war and the war effort rationing was based on control and lies. Many of the people back then were terribly gullible. It was the same in WW I. The vile Roosevelt just repackaged the scoundrel Wilson's lies when the need arose.

[Mike in Ohio]

So what exactly do you think we should ration Bob?

Free markets should be allowed to work except in all but the most dire circumstances. We are nowhere close to the circumstances that entailed rationing during WWII.

In many respects, rationing or price controls actually results in misallocation of resources.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike