Is this a Good Idea?

[Terrabus]

I work at a gas station right now. I have lots of seeds planted but I have no idea which one will grow so I just keep planting seeds.

I had a farmer come into the station two weeks ago and complain loudly about the prices he got for some beef calves. I don't know the age or details but that he only got about $140 a piece for them. He was furious because the price of corn was so high that it was killing his business. I know a lot of part-time farmers who have pastures and facilities they really aren't using. So...I was thinking about buying a calf or two, letting them graze on the un-used pasture and then work out some kind of deal with the farmer for letting me use his pasture and barn. I'd do the work, he would get paid back in some form or another. Money or beef, I'm not sure. Maybe this is cabin fever talking but I think it might be a good deal if I can get somebody to agree with me. Heck, I'd let them graze in my buddy's backyard if the city would allow it

I'm working out the same deal with a buddy of mine and some chickens. Different situation, kinda the same deal.

I should say here the only experience I have with beef is that I've eaten a lot of it. Other than that, I'll be asking a lot of really dumb questions and reading as much as possible. Maybe this is a dumb idea but if there's a chance I could make it work, why not?

So what do you folks think?

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think he told you a story. Yesterday at the auction sale, three day old bottle calves went for $135 and $190. Bottle calves are close to the bottom of the market, as many don't survive.

Ranchers usually sell weaning size calves, 400 to 500 lbs or so. The minimum you can expect to get right now is $1 a pound.

[Pelenaka]

On the seed starting ...
We have a plant/tool sale about the first Saturday of June. Tools for the guys plants for the gals.
Last year I netted about $100 on plants started both from seeds, direct dividing out of my garden, along with foraging from abanoned urban areas. Those plants included lilac and roses. Containers are all recycled, planting soil bought for $1 a bag. Prices were very reasonable most costing <$3.
If the gas station owner won't let you sell there any good traffic wayside road stand might work.
Don't forget the story behind that famous tomato plant, "Mortgage Lifter"!
~~ pelenaka ~~

[rambler]

I'd differ - around here the cattle market is going soft. High grain prices, calves/ feeders are getting cheap. Those with ties to the ethanol industry (big around here) can get distillers dried grains, but - you can't get much for calves compared to a few years ago.

Right now we will liquidate some cattle, as folks can't afford to feed them. This means meat prices & live cattle prices will actually go down, as the cost of feeding them goes up.

In a year or 18 months, it will hit - that meat prices will climb, and cattle prices will again go up to match the feed cost.

Be real careful playing around in this type of inverted market. It is easy to buy high, sell low if you are not familiar with this type of market. I remember last cycle, frien of mine paid $30 for baby pigs, sold them after feeding for $28 each.

Joke was a fella put 4 calves in a pen at the end of the driveway, free. At the end of the day he checked, and had 8 in the pen.....

Undserstand the pricing cycle of cattle in this type of a market.

--->Paul

[Terri]

Read "No Risk Ranching" by Greg Judy. Your library can get it in for you.

Basically, since cattle MUST be checked often, he rented a bit of land between his home and his job. That way he could conveniently check them both going to and coming from work. Cattle waterers sometimes break down and they MUST! have water. So he checked them at least daily.

He bought calves in the spring, grazed them, and sold them in the fall.

Remember that a cow is perhaps 1/3 meat: the rest is bone and hide and innards. And there is a cost to have it butchered and cut up.

Good luck!

[RockyGlen]

Cattle market stinks around here....cost of feed is too high. Normally we buy bottle calves for around $80 each to put on our milk cows. This year we have people calling us left and right offering their bottle calves for free because the price they sell for is not worth the haul fee and saleyard fees and milk replacer is $75 a bag....we took 4, but that's all we can handle, so we have turned away 2 more.

[hintonlady]

Bottle babies of any species are a lot of work and as mentioned abovr survivability isn't always great. (especially in winter)

If you can get past that and make a "lease" that is fair you could have a great deal going.

[Quint]

I've considered getting a couple or three calves in the spring and grazing them on my small pasture until fall and slaughtering a couple for personal use and selling a couple more to defray the cost of processing. I've got the pasture for a few and I'm not interested in making any money other than enough to offset the cost of butchering. I'd just like to have my own beef. I'm sick of paying 10 bucks for a little package of hamburger in the store when I've got some idle pasture that could be growing me beef over the summer.

[Tom in TN]

Terrabus,

I don't mean to offend you or create any kind of controversy. This is just my opinion.

I don't think anyone should ever assume the responsibility for the care of any animal if they don't either have experience caring for that kind of animal or have a very involved mentor to guide them in the care of the animal. I think you would be doing a grave dis-service to that calf (or calves) if you don't know how to care for it.

I've raised lots of cattle over the years. They require (and deserve) a lot of attention.

Good luck with your decision.

Tom in TN

[mwhit]

Originally Posted by Tom in TN

Terrabus,

I don't mean to offend you or create any kind of controversy. This is just my opinion.

I don't think anyone should ever assume the responsibility for the care of any animal if they don't either have experience caring for that kind of animal or have a very involved mentor to guide them in the care of the animal. I think you would be doing a grave dis-service to that calf (or calves) if you don't know how to care for it.

I've raised lots of cattle over the years. They require (and deserve) a lot of attention.

Good luck with your decision.

Tom in TN

I don't want to disagree with you and start a controversy, but I'm gonna anyway Not everyone grew up near animals and not everyone is fortunate to know a helpful 'old timer'. I don't think, as long as someone is willing to educate theirself, we should discourage people who have never had animals from getting started, do you?

Michelle

[Tom in TN]

mwhit,

Discourage people from controlling the destiny of animals when they don't know how to care for the animal? -- Yes, I do mean to discourage them from doing so. I'm not a bed-wetting animal rights freak, but I think it is reprehensible for someone to assume responsibility for an animal if they don't know how to care for it. And that doesn't come from just reading a book either. It requires a teacher to walk with the person until they gain the wisdom they need to care for the animal.

At least, that's my opinion.

Tom in TN

[Terri]

Tom, finding a teacher is HIS problem. He has already said he realizes he is ignorant.

I grew up in San jose, California, and I did not grow up with critters.

No problem: I went to college and chose classes that would teach me what I wanted to know. Every class has a teacher and you ask questions as you wish: some of them even helped students plan out and set up brand-new operations!

Or, he can find a farmer friend.

Or a partner.

Animal knowledge does not HAVE to come in your youth: you just need a teacher!

I apoligise if I come across too strongly: when I was taking classes about 1/3 of the students were of the opinion that unless you had a father or an uncle to help you get started, that your situation was hopeless and it was not possible to farm.

The rest of us figured we would learn it and then do it.

[Wolf mom]

Hey all - didn't terrabus say he'd be here asking a lot of questions? After acknowledging he was just thinking about raising a couple calves.

Do you think possibly he 1. could be just exploring the idea, 2. planning on using this forum as a teaching tool???

Goooolly gee.....such a to do over nothing.

[agmantoo]

Not taking sides with anyone. In my situation I came from a 1/4 acre lot in town. None of my family farmed or owned any land of any consequence. I wanted land and I wanted to farm. I made lots of mistakes plus sacrifices and I learned a little along the way. Sometimes not learning from an elder may mean not repeating their mistakes! Those of us here can read or we would not be here. In a few hours a person can read what took a lifetime to amass by an author. We can gain experience and knowledge. I do think that an animal owner does need a sense of responsibility. With this responsibility will come the awareness that it is essential to provide shelter and feed and water as required. Most of the calf problems I see here come from too much concern over the animals and they are too pampered (calves over fed for example). There are the exceptions on the neglect side and there always will be. Most of the neglect is with pets IMO. When a responsible person has a significant investment in the livestock and is looking for a return to support the enterprise/family, the livestock will usually be cared for. [With the massive beef recall the problem was a result of a few irresponsible employees that other than their hourly income had no investment in the venture. These employees put their co workers out of a job and caused the facility to be shut down. They gave the entire beef industry a black eye] Everyone has to start somewhere. Starting small and starting with the basic facilities in place PRIOR to getting the animals is most important. Given time and the desire to succeed will overcome the remaining obstacles. Think the venture through, ask yourself if you are up to the task, be it good or bad, and go forth.

[Beeman]

[QUOTE=Terrabus;2898013]I work at a gas station right now. I have lots of seeds planted but I have no idea which one will grow so I just keep planting seeds.

I had a farmer come into the station two weeks ago and complain loudly about the prices he got for some beef calves. I don't know the age or details but that he only got about $140 a piece for them. He was furious because the price of corn was so high that it was killing his business. I know a lot of part-time farmers who have pastures and facilities they really aren't using. So...I was thinking about buying a calf or two, letting them graze on the un-used pasture and then work out some kind of deal with the farmer for letting me use his pasture and barn. I'd do the work, he would get paid back in some form or another. Money or beef, I'm not sure. Maybe this is cabin fever talking but I think it might be a good deal if I can get somebody to agree with me. Heck, I'd let them graze in my buddy's backyard if the city would allow it

Let's get back to the task at hand.

It sounds like you're ambitious and have a good idea. Before buying the calves do your homework and it will work out. Do understand the timeline involved in creating a marketable beef and how to market it. Farming on the small scale is as much marketing as it is caring for the animal. This is your farmer that stopped in's problem. He's trying to only sell through the livestock market instead of doing the marketing himself.

[frazzlehead]

Terrabus, is there a 4H or FFA club in your area? Every club I know is desperate for volunteers, and if you volunteer with a beef club, you will learn right along side the kids! I've gained most of my knowledge of farm critters etc from the wonderful leaders (and kids!) in our 4H club. The motto is "learn to do by doing" and it applies to the grownups too.

Good luck to you, sounds like you are willing to pursue a good idea if you can find the necessary support.

oh, one other thought; if you do go on with this calf thing, be sure to line up a vet who is willing to come out and check your animals or give you some guidance etc BEFORE you get all set up and going. Sometimes they can be hard to find.

[texican]

Profit is what drives most businesses.

The farmer lost money, as farmers are want to do... Happens all the time, in a business that buys high (retail) and sells low (wholesale)... Farming as a 'business' is antithesis to regular 'business' where you buy low and sell high.

If the farmer is losing money on the proposition, odds are that a new person would lose money too. If your labor has any value, you'd be better off to continue working and simply purchasing a grown animal from the farmer (at a loss to him) carry it to the slaughterhouse (or better yet, do it yourself...) and enjoy your beef.

Otherwise, I'd lease the land, for cash. Put some yearling on it, fatten them up, take them to the slaughterhouse and enjoy your beef.

My uncle had the auction barn owner out to his place Monday, to tell him what he thought of 30 head of yearlings... He needs to sell them, but instead of loading them up, and carrying into town, and losing money on them, he had the guy come out and tell him if it'd be worth it. Selling when the market is down is always a bad deal..... but when they're eating nothing but store bought feed and owner raised hay, they're eating money that can't be recouped.....