Talk to me about dogs

[mammabooh]

Please give me recommendations about farm dogs. We're thinking Australian Shepherd (I like the blue merle), but are open to suggestions. I'm not concerned with a dog that is pretty, just one that wants to work and is easily trainable.

We'll have ten acres and will install some sort of invisible fence. The dog will be an outside dog with a stall fixed up in the barn to be his home. We are planning to have several goats, chickens, and maybe a couple of steers for beef. The goats and steers will be on pasture and the chickens will be free-ranging.

We want the dog to protect the animals and the property, but to also be our buddy. I want him to be trainable to not jump when visitors arrive, but to be fierce enough to scare away the bad guys!

So, any suggestions for us?

Thanks!

[cchapman84]

It's best if you're looking for a livestock guardian to not be "buddies" with the dog. The dog needs to bond to the animals in order to protect them well, and if he bonds with you he won't bond as strongly to the livestock. If you're interested in more of a watch dog, then pretty much anything that barks will work for you. It's good if they're big enough to scare off predators as well.

Also, if it gets very cold (below freezing) where you are (which I'm guessing it does), you'll want to look for a longer-haired breed (Pyr maybe?) if you're going to keep him outside all the time. Short-haired dogs will get too cold even if they have shelter.

Teaching a dog not to jump is a good idea no matter what. But realize that he's not going to know the difference between a good stranger and a bad stranger most of the time (although a lot of dogs can sense a really bad stranger). The best thing is to teach him a release-type command, so that when you tell him it's okay he'll back off. Just make sure that he'll back off absolutely every time you tell him to. Professional training for this might be a good idea.

[Meg Z]

Personally, I wouldn't get a herding dog and put it out around livestock, and expect it not to try to herd. Untrained herding dogs are known to turn into livestock killers, simply because the herding instinct is so close to prey drive.

I wouldn't choose a hunting breed, particularly a bird dog, if there are chickens around.

It's a bit too much for a dog to understand when you ask it to go against centuries of breeding, I think.

If you want a dog who's going to guard, then I'd choose a breed that's bred to guard.

Such as the English shepherd, which has bloodlines available for both herding and guarding. The classic farm collie. But there are other breeds. You may even want to consider a LDG of some type.

Meg

[mammabooh]

Good points so far!

Meg...I've seen it so many times on here, but I still don't know what a "LDG" is. Can ya clue me in?

[Bearfootfarm]

Originally Posted by mammabooh

Good points so far!

Meg...I've seen it so many times on here, but I still don't know what a "LDG" is. Can ya clue me in?

"LGD" 'stands for "Livestock Guardian Dog"

It means one of several distinct breeds developed strictly to protect livestock. They are not usually considered "pets", and tend to roam a lot if not confined.

The DO NOT herd. They only protect.

http://www.lgd.org/
http://www.bountifulfarm.com/lgd_seminar.htm
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/maremmasheepdog.htm

[bloogrssgrl]

Mammabooh,

A LGD is a Livestock Guardian Dog. They are usually a bit larger breed of dog whose main purpose is to protect your livestock. As far as I am aware, they usually live with the livestock and are not to be treated as buddies. This site may help you learn more about them. http://www.lgd.org/

We were also looking for a good all-around farm hand dog and settled on and English Shepherd. I wanted a dog that would offer some protection but could also be among our family. A great site to find out more about these dogs is http://www.farmcollie.com/

We just got our pup in the beginning of January. He is now about 16 weeks old and alreay starting to learn the ropes around the farm.

[greenmulberry]

Originally Posted by mammabooh

Meg...I've seen it so many times on here, but I still don't know what a "LDG" is. Can ya clue me in?

LGD=livestock guardian dogs. Usually this refers to certain breeds that are specially bred for guarding, such as a great Pyrenees.

I love Australian Shepherds. I work with an aussie rescue, taking in ones that were dumped at the pound to be put to sleep, train them to do something, and find them an appropriate home. They are great dogs and they bond closely with their owners. If you spend time developing a good working relationship, they are very trainable.

As you will have livestock, you will want to have some way to seperate the dog from the livestock until it is properly trained not to chase. You never ever want to give the dog a chance to chase livestock, as it is very rewarding for the dog and a hard thing to train away once they have experienced it.

My Aussie was an adult and well mannered once we got our horses, and she knew to follow instruction, so we didn't have a problem, but if she had been a young thing and not so well trained, I would have wanted a way to surely keep them seperate when I was not around to control the situation. She was also good with the chickens (even scared of the roo), but she had a good foundation of training before she ever met chickens, and knew they were MOMS chickens, and that is what makes a world of difference.

[Jim S.]

I just have to disagree with the advice not to be "buddies" with your LGD. The dog that lives 24/7 with goats or sheep or whatever WILL INDEED bond with those animals and care for them to an amazing degree! But you can definitely be buddies with the dog at feeding times, and you can definitely go out in the pasture and visit it, toss it sticks to fetch, and so on.

In fact, I think this is absolutely required if an owner ever expects to have any degree of influence with the dog, right down to such basic commands as "come here" and "stop that."

Every day, I feed my LGD in a separate room of the barn from the goats. During that period, I pet her and hug her and tell her she is a good dog. On nice days, I'll toss her a favorite toy in the barnyard -- separate from the goat herd -- and let her retrieve it. I refer to her as "my business partner," and I mean that literally. Without her, my goats would be killed by predators, and I know that for a fact from experience!

We are buddies, and we are bonded. The thing is, she knows when it is time to go back in with the goats, she is with THEM. She is not conflicted about it, and I do not put her in positions where she has to choose between me and the livestock.

There is a certain degree of hardheadedness in LGDs. I have never met one that didn't have it. It is a GOOD thing, because they need to be able to make independent judgments. But by bonding, as I have, with your dog and not putting it in the position of choosing between you and the livestock, you will have greater command control over it, because you have become a part of it's general herd.

I know people who leave their dogs completely on their own and then have to literally chase down their LGD to get it in the truck for annual rabies shots. A neighbor's LGD got so feral, no one could approach it, and it would approach no one. Man, that's no way to do it.

[Jim S.]

Originally Posted by greenmulberry

I love Australian Shepherds. I work with an aussie rescue, taking in ones that were dumped at the pound to be put to sleep, train them to do something, and find them an appropriate home.

Oh, you hit on a great point there. I bought my Pyr, but I have since checked with the pound locally, and they say they get a steady supply of them from folks who get in and get out of goats, then drop the LGD at the pound collection pen. You can BET that I will be seeking my next one from the pound. All my other dogs are rescued from the feral life.

[ozarkcat]

We've got an Aussie Shepherd, and he's a great farm dog for us. He does try to "herd" some of the animals, and finds it terribly amusing to "goose" the chickens for the startle reaction . We think he's worth his weight in gold - very intelligent, very protective of "his" animals. He's a mutt Aussie (no papers), though, so it might just be luck of the draw.

[meanwhile]

We have dogs from the Animal Shelter. Got them thinking they would "just" be pets however they are great Farm animals. The Vet says they are a Mix of Black Lab and "chow" since they are very aggressive about patrolling the area and they also kill any wild thing that comes within the confines of the main yard. They have even killed a bob cat. They are also, however, very loving with boys, learned to obey and "house train" quickly. We love them but they are also very good "working dogs". good luck

[cchapman84]

When I was talking about not being "buddies" I wasn't thinking about having no contact or anything like that. When I think of being buddies with a dog, to me that means taking them for walks and rides in the car, coming in the house sometimes (or all the time), etc. I didn't mean it as not having any contact with them or not giving them any attention. Sorry for causing any confusion.

[mammabooh]

I must clarify too. When I said I wanted it to be our buddy, I just meant that I want it to hang out with us if we're outside. It won't be coming into the house and probably won't be going for any car rides.

[highlands]

The best thing is to get dogs from working parents that do as close as possible to what you want them to do. We have livestock guardian / herding dogs. They do both. They work independently and with us. The know the difference between their livestock and strange animals. They protect the former and kill the latter if it comes into their boundaries. They're our first defense against disease coming onto our farmstead from wild animals, keep the deer back out of the orchards and gardens and keep our animals in the fields where they're supposed to be. We interact a lot with our dogs and I wouldn't want to farm or homestead without them.

Pictures and articles:

http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Asugarmtnfarm.com+livestock+guardian+dogs
Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org

[Meg Z]

I can't even spell when it's initials! Livestock Guardian Dog it is!

[Toads tool]

Whatever you do don't get just one dog.
Alot of problems that are had with dogs are out of boredom; Barking, digging, chewing, messing with the other critters.
I have three labs and they all know the rules. Because I took the time to train them.
If you actively train these dogs, they will behave accordingly.
Even a curr dog will respond positively to love and guidance.

[RACCOON]

Rottweiler's make good farm dogs they were bred to be farm dogs Germany
In early America pit bulls were used as farm dogs

[4nTN]

I would have said,"Yes a Blue Merle Aussie or any Aussie would be the all round best dog".Then I read that you plan on keeping the dog outside by itself.That would be fine for other more aloof breeds,not for an Australian Shepherd.THey want to be right next to the family.
As others have suggested a Livestock Gaurdian Dog would better suit your needs it sounds like.



Sharon

[Bearfootfarm]

I disagree with the idea that just any dog can be trained to be a "LGD"
A TRUE LGD breed will do it by instinct alone.

Many "yard dogs" are protective of their TERRITORY, but to call them LGD's is disingenuous. They would more PROPERLY be called "farm dogs" at best, and are NOT breed specific

Just because your yard dog barks at strange animals , it DOESNT make it an LGD.
The term is overused by those who dont know the true meaning, or who want to sell high priced mutts as working dogs.

Good dogs can be obtained from a shelter, but they WILL NOT be LGD's if they are not the correct breed, no matter what you want to CALL them

[Dubi]

What breed(s) would people recommend to guard in this scenario? We've been leaning toward a couple of Pyrs but aren't sure.

• Over 100 acres partially fenced, with most of the agricultural activity centralized on about half of the property.
• Several horses, some cows, hogs, chickens to protect.
• Children of all ages to protect somewhat/warn of danger (they always have adults nearby).
• Predators could include coyotes, wolves, and maybe a black bear or two.
• There would be a few other family dogs around that wouldn't necessarily be expected to protect anyone other than barking.

Is it possible to find a guard dog that's also a family dog--one that would hang out with kids? That might tend to stay near people and livestock instead of wandering off?