Frozen Septic Pipe

[mwhit]

Ok... We have a 1000 gallon concrete septic tank and nothing runs into it except the toilet. Every winter it freezes up the septic pipe and of course, the toilet won't work. The tank was pumped the day before I moved in (Dec. 2004) but it froze shortly after. We've tried several things including a new toilet (thought it may leak slowly), new septic pipe, new vent (old one was not behind the toilet-- it was outside??) This year we were fine until a few days ago so of course, we assumed we had it fixed? We had a few days of warm weather and a thaw-- there was a lot of water everywhere on the yard and then it got cold again. Anywho-- my question is this: could it be that the leech field freezes therefore the water will not exit the tank and then freezes up the pipe?

I find it confusing because I always assumed the septic gas would prevent the line going to the house from feezing....

Michelle (who is thankful she has a Sears Pak-A-Potti )

[fishhead]

We're having problems in MN with frozen septic systems. Most people avoid it by piling about a foot of straw over the tank and lines in the fall. Normally we get enough snow to insulate it but we're still in severe drought so our snowfall isn't enough.

[Cabin Fever]

I would suggest that you have more of your plumbing system discharge to your septic system.

[YoungOne]

I'm with cabin fever
If your system doesn't have much work to do then it won't generate much heat and gas. That is what I was told by our installer and we only reach the negatives a couple times a winter (I'm told).

[mwhit]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

I would suggest that you have more of your plumbing system discharge to your septic system.

Ok. I'll tell DH to do that. I never really considered that it could be the problem.

Right now all the grey water goes into the older smaller tank and that never freezes. That's how it was when we bought the place so we ran all our new drains into it like they had been.

Thanks.

Michelle

ETA: when we bought it there were regular toilets and we bought low volume ones so there probably isn't much water going it to it even though there are 6 of us....

[Jerry in MN]

Originally Posted by YoungOne

I'm with cabin fever

and I *have* cabin fever!
Seems that warm water from baths, showers, clothes washing, etc. would directly help to keep the sectic warmer, and that heat would in turn also help the bacteria etc. be more active to do their thing and generate even more heat.
Cabin Fever, is that what you were thinking?

[Cabin Fever]

The bacteria are not producing much, if any, heat in Minnesota in the winter....they are pretty much dormant. Just an increased volume of wastewater, that has a temperature above 32º, is going to help keep the system from freezing.

[tiogacounty]

I fixed a problem like this a few winters ago. Friends own a vacation home that has serious issues with winter sewer line freeze ups. After probing around with a snake to determine exactly where the cold spot was, we determines that there were two problems. First the pipe wasn't quite deep enough where it left the house. Second, the fill surrounding the pipe was mostly 2" to 3" gravel with a lot of voids and pockets in it. This effectively allowed the ground to freeze much harder and deeper than normal, since the loose large gravel allowed a lot of cold air down into the ground. The first winter we covered the area with a layer of 1" blue styrofoam them covered the edges of the sheets with topsoil, to keep the foam from blowing away. This trapped enough warmth in the soil to keep the pipe above freezing. The next year the area was dug up, a few inches deep, to allow the foam to be installed permanently, a few inches below the surface. It's been a few years, and the pipe hasn't froze yet, so I would call it a sucess. Good luck.

[OkieDavid]

I have nothing constructive to add but I will offer my sympathies......I cannot imagine living in a climate so cold the septic tank freezes.... Here I only "have" to bury waterlines 1 inch to avoid freezing.

Man it sounds cold where you are..........Hoping for sunshine and a thaw for you.

[RACCOON]

Try flushing a couple packages of yeast down ur toilet
Once you get pipes open

[mwhit]

I do use yeast to keep it active. I've thought about it and I can't help but wonder if hooking more of my drains into it would just lead to worse problems. I mean what happens if I hook in my washer, bathtub and sinks and it still freezes? I'd be without any working drains. I guess my first thing to do is find out exactly where my leech lines run and make sure they are deep enough. There are no plans on file for my septic system, but I do know the man that put it in. He's in Florida for the winter, but in the spring I'll get ahold of him and see what he suggests. I remember when it was done and much of the yard was dug up to put in lots of leech pipe (it's wet here). I have no idea how deep it is buried. Looks like we'll be investigating the leech field this summer...

Michelle

[The Paw]

I think yeast will do sweet bugger all to prevent freezing.

CabinFever and Tiogacounty are giving you good advice:

If your leach field is freezing, you need to cover it with straw.

if the lines between the tank and field or the house and the tank are freezing you need a combination of styrofoam boards and straw bales.

If your tank is freezing, insulating above helps, but larger volumes of warm water entering the tank more frequently are the best defence against freezing.


This comes from a guy living in the Canadian prairie, who bought a house with a concrete septic tank that has the top 18" above grade....

[Pouncer]

Agree with The Paw and CabinFever.....the issue is you do not have any warm water going into the tank-and not enough liquids. Hook the shower or kitchen sink drain and that should help a bunch.

At my work, I am the only employee in the winter months. Last year, the septic froze. This is because I didn't put enough hot water down there to keep it active with such little waste going in. And, there were four inches of insulation over it too.

This winter, I am putting about ten gallons a day down the drain, of very hot water. I am hopeful it won't freeze, lol The tank is located in the main yard area, and the tank, lines and drainfield get driven over all winter-plus it's kept plowed.

There isn't much you can do right now if a steam thawer can't thaw it for you. But to prevent this from happening, more warm water needs to go through the tank. Checking your drainfield is a good idea, maybe you can install a monitoring tube this summer, so you can at least identify future issues.

Oh, I am in Alaska